51 replies to this topic

[ShineeLikeMe]

Alright guys. Intense battle going on in the of California for the past decade. Gay marriage. Proposition 8 which banned the right for gays to marry just got struck down about a month or two ago.

There are basically two sides to this.

Proponents claim that legalizing gay marriage will give gays the 1024 federal rights they do not have.

Opponents of gay marriage claim that this is just another step in the gay agenda and that this goes against the Biblical teachings.

And then theres the issue of the word marriage in general.

Should we allow gays to marry and have their federal rights but just call this union something different (i.e civil union, domestic partnership), or is this separate but equal all over again.

Lemme know your opinions. No bashing please?

[Drake Glau]

duynguyen, on Oct 13, 2010 - 03:48, said:

Alright guys. Intense battle going on in the of California for the past decade. Gay marriage. Proposition 8 which banned the right for gays to marry just got struck down about a month or two ago.

There are basically two sides to this.

Proponents claim that legalizing gay marriage will give gays the 1024 federal rights they do not have.

Opponents of gay marriage claim that this is just another step in the gay agenda and that this goes against the Biblical teachings.

And then theres the issue of the word marriage in general.

Should we allow gays to marry and have their federal rights but just call this union something different (i.e civil union, domestic partnership), or is this separate but equal all over again.

Lemme know your opinions. No bashing please?

Superficial level time! Since we have the right to whatever religion we want, that seems like a really weak case against gay marriage...
However, marriage, as far as I know, is defined through the Christian religion and if the religion is against gay marriage I don't think it should be called a "marriage" in order to avoid insult towards a group of people. But I can see this bringing up another issue (much like our ToK discussion we just had) where one group is now "claiming" a word as their own and by doing so appointing themselves superiority over homosexuals in general, hoping that made sense. I don't like the thought of anyone particular group being able to just simply claim a word and define it and then deny people the use of it simply because they do not follow said groups beliefs and whatnot but on the other hand using it for other purposes than its "intended" use could offend that group's beliefs.

[ShineeLikeMe]

i don't like oppression period.

[Daedalus]

All people who want to keep gay marriage banned for selfish reasons (and are there any others?) should be eaten.

[ShineeLikeMe]

Well I don't necessarily think that it's selfish for them. I think a lot of people who oppose it are religious and so they think that by preventing us from having the right to marry they're somehow 'saving' us from eternal damnation? Although if we're gay we're supposed to be damned anyway so I personally don't see how that makes a difference.

Like on the eaten thing.

[Jphu8414]

I don't exactly agree with homosexuality but I live in California and I know that Prop 8 is wrong and gays should have the right (I mean it is American after all right?)

[ShineeLikeMe]

Oh I was wondering when someone against homosexuality would respond ahaha.
I'm not trying to be offensive I promise. I've spoken to my friends on the topic but I wanted to see why others are against it.
Would you care to explain?

[Jphu8414]

duynguyen, on Oct 13, 2010 - 22:45, said:

Oh I was wondering when someone against homosexuality would respond ahaha.
I'm not trying to be offensive I promise. I've spoken to my friends on the topic but I wanted to see why others are against it.
Would you care to explain?

-I t
I am by no means trying to bash homosexuality, and I completely respect it, but that being said-I personally think it is wrong because it is just biologically unnatural and the basic purpose of a bond between two people is to reproduce but with homosexuality you can't have that, also studies have shown that kids develop more properly if they have both a mother and father to look up to. But as I said before I disagree with it but I still think people can make their own choices on sexuality

[Mahuta ♥]

I am personally against homosexual marriage.

It's just me, not saying it's wrong..so don't go attacking me. You want to try sex with the same gender..fine..go ahead no one is judging you. What I am against is..gay marriage.

Personally, I just see that a marriage is more balanced when it has a male and a female..not saying all marriages are balanced. But that's how I see it.

When I try and imagine it..2 guys married, both of them acting all manly, I just don't see how that would work, I don't know..it's just confusing for me. Same goes for 2 girls getting married, both of them are girls..there just isn't the half that plays the role of a man.

I just think a marriage need a feminine side and a masculine side. I know you will completely disagree with me, but that's just my opinion. I find marriage something very big and important and I think it just seems right (TO ME) when it's both a man and a woman, because honestly, that's how it's meant to be.

This is my own personal opinion and everything I said is to explain why I think that. I do not mean to offend any homosexual members in here.

[ShineeLikeMe]

No no no. I totally respect your opinions. It's very enlightening to hear differing opinions.
Although I'm curious when you say "biologically unnatural" and "thats how its meant to be," how do you guys feel about the fact that there have been genes linked to homosexuality (Jphu841, Mahuta 2010)?

p.s see what I did there? bahah

[lexiiicee]

Here is my thing. Most people that oppose gay marriage do so because of their religious beliefs against gay marriage.
But how religious is it to judge other people?
How holy is it to put down other people because of something they cannot control?
I believe they should have the right to marry. Not meaning to attack anyone's viewpoints but with such high divorce rates in today's society
i dont believe that homosexuals are the ones destroying the sanctity of marriage.

[xXaliceinibwonderlandXx]

Well in my opinion the opposition has no good points at all for a few reason:
1. The USA proudly screams separation of church as state , yes? Therefore christian, or any religions idealism should not come into play when deciding the rights of other peoples lives.
2. The freedom to pursue happiness is also the basic right of every USA citizen. Unless it directly harms another living being it shouldn't matter.Two homosexuals getting married does neither, and while people don't like to admit it they're equal citizens to any heterosexual so they should have every right.
I honestly don't understand to be honest I say let homosexuals be just as miserable as every straight married couple

[Mahuta ♥]

Quote

No no no. I totally respect your opinions. It's very enlightening to hear differing opinions.
Although I'm curious when you say "biologically unnatural" and "thats how its meant to be," how do you guys feel about the fact that there have been genes linked to homosexuality (Jphu841, Mahuta 2010)?

p.s see what I did there? bahah

No I can't see what you did.

Why are you calling me Mahuta 2010?

I didn't say anything about biologically unnatural (although I somehow agree), but I just don't see it right otherwise. Here it is direct as hell..sex is NATURALLY penis and vagina..not penis and 'the hole'. There.
Same for lesbians..Vagina and Vagina..what kind of sex is that? Yeah ok you will use dildos and what not..but still it's the same as a real penis.

Not saying anything about anal being weird or dirty or anything..but to me sex with 2 penises involved, just makes me uncomfortable, lol.

[ShineeLikeMe]

Ah and now we get into the discussion of what is natural and what is not. Because what is defined as natural for one person may not be defined as natural for another. Expected cultural norms are considered 'natural' also. It used to be natural in China to bind womens feet, own slaves, and treat women LIKE they were slaves but cultural perceptions change. So I guess it all goes back to perception.

p.s I cited! Cus you know how the IB is anal (no pun intended) about citing your quotations? The 2010 is APA format.

[Mahuta ♥]

Aaah yes, lol, haha.

Yes true, that's why I kept saying 'personally' and 'my own'..etc..etc.

I'll say it again:

Normally, it's the vagina and penis sex that is natural..other forms just don't see right to me, if you know what I mean. Penis in the hole..or whatever..just, I don't know. Maybe it's just me, I get very uncomfortable about these things. Once again I do not mean to be offensive and sorry if I seem to be.

[ShineeLikeMe]

Don't worry I'm not one of the gays that gets up in arms about every little thing people disagree with me on. Going back to what you said, the issue here is not what the gays do in their private life, but the inherent VALUE of the marriage.

Not only does it show that one person can truly love another to the point that they are willing to spend the rest of their lives together, it also gives them the chance to PROVE that dedication. Other benefits include the 1024 rights that gay couples do not get.

For example, are you aware that heterosexual married couples are allowed to make medical decisions for one another? That is one of the federal rights practice throughout the US.

However in contrast to this, same-sex couples that have been together and stable for possibly longer than the heterosexual couple are not allowed to make decisions in the event that the other is incapacitated. And this is just one.

[Mahuta ♥]

Yeah, at this point we're talking about how the country you live in sees that kind of marriage. I don't think it's a matter of what people around you think, because even if people around you agree with you and completely understand..etc..etc. If the country laws/ those who make theses rights do not acknowledge this kind of relationship as an adult healthy one! Instead they see it as something..out of the norm and not acceptable in the society, and this would somehow prove that it's not all about the religion really.

[tootall2591]

I must agree on the aspect that for any organism outside of asexual reproduction a male must fertilize a female to procreate. However, I come from a very religious family and the bible says do not judge others unless you are judged. So I may understand the biological aspects of the attraction of the same sex however I do not verbally protest against homosexuality even though I believe it is wrong.

[ShineeLikeMe]

Well I mean if you want to talk about the law...Laws change with the society do they not? So whats to stop current laws banning gay marriage from being abolished also. My turn to apologize for being narrow minded and not taking your country into effect. I've been assimilated.

[tootall2591]

Yes, laws are meant to be amended to change with time and there is the fact that was brought up earlier about separation of church and that is why me as a devote Christian have no objection to same sex marriage even though I believe homosexuality is wrong.