The U.S. 2008 Presidential Election Thread

[Ashika]

I honestly don't care about who wins the elections, as long as another nutter like Bush doesn't come into the White House.

Agreed completely.

Although, I think Obama has a great chance of winning, which is good!

Edited March 31, 2008 by Jewelianna

[pianojames111]

why's that?

why isn't there anywhere that their policies are written! I don't watch tv but I need to read where they stand for ****'s sake!

Because they are democrats who cannot piss anybody off so they choose to do nothing. they try to have no opinion on any subject or else they might hurt their public image. The next time you see Clinton or Obama or any other democrat on TV when they are asked a question. Tell me how many times they answer with a direct "yes" or "no". It's just how they are.

[Mandiloquence]

why's that?

why isn't there anywhere that their policies are written! I don't watch tv but I need to read where they stand for ****'s sake!

Well, their policies are written and explained in detail, if you dig into their websites. However, as was previously stated, the Democrats don't really like to address controversial issues, for fear of alienating certain voters. And, while I am pro-Obama, his campaign makes me slightly sick to my stomach. "Vote for change we can believe in." I mean, really, that's the oldest trick in the book. Everyone just assumes that he is talking about the same change they want, and unless they do their research, they really don't know what kind of policies they would have if he is voted into office. Hilary is just as guilty for the most part, using flowery language and promoting "patriotism", rather than discussing the issues.

But I suppose that's typical campaign practice.

I'm just disappointed that I can't vote for another two years.

I demand you all vote for Obama on my behalf. Thank you. Clinton makes me sick.

I appreciate your time . Make the right choice so the rest of us can live please.

Haha, interesting Deus. What don't you like about Clinton? And what makes you so pro-Obama?

Edited April 22, 2008 by Mandiloquence

[Guest]

Deus is a sexist. Just kidding. He probably is able to see that Hilary is only about getting to the White House, and she doesn't really care about making the world a better place. Obama wants change, but who the hell knows what that means. I just want somebody to explain to me the democrats delegate system. It almost doesn't sound like democracy. Vote McCain

[pianojames111]

i am not voting this year, seeing as i am 14, but i would definitely not vote for Hillary because she is about to pull some shenanigans over everybody. I don't dpt the "super Delegate" system either (joesaelens) but i do get that the democrats, instead of answering a question will find some creepy way to dodge around every question. Obama seems a bit more straightforward but i disagree with his views. The only one left is McCaine and i have no real opinion of him. So lets all vote Jimmy Buffett for president!!! not really. If he were president, instead of facing a problem, he would probably invite it for a drink on some remote shoreline. oh well. But of all the Candidates, McCaine is who i support the most.

[QueenSara]

Well, like some other IB people here, I'm not an American citizen, but still I am very interested and concerned about the elections. I'm pro-Obama, mainly because I like his opinions when it comes to most questions, however I do also think it would be refreshing for the US (and thus for all of us, to be a little cynical) to have a younger president. Sadly, it seems to me, from what I've heard, that the Demcratic elections Hilary .vs. Obama is more fight of "what shall we do first? elect a black president or a female one?". I do think that US elections not only concerns Americans but the whole world, US still has power and influence.

[Graeme]

There is one reason why I support Obama rather than Clinton, and that is because of the way he has managed to get young people involved in politics. You are all failing to see the bigger picture. We are slowly getting to a point where people (young people especially) are becoming apathetic and no longer believe in government. The fact that Obama has managed to get millions of people active into politics means that these people will be constantly on his back, making sure he does what he said he would do. Millions of people have invested their time and money into Obama's campaign, and that alone means that they won't just sit back and let things stay the way they are.

You all fail the realise the importance of people in democracy. If people sit around and do nothing but complain, NOTHING happens. People need to get active and demand for things to change, and constantly keep demanding it till something happens.

And seriously, if you support McCain, you need to stop hating the world so much. It's mean!

[Guest]

You still haven't told me what is so great about Obama, deus. Just because he got young people involved doesn't mean anything. Hitler got people involved in politics and that was a freaking disaster. I want to know what you think he will do for the world. And will somebody PLEASE explain the super delegates. I swear it is not democracy. And what is so bad about McCain? He is responsible for the gang of fourteen, which made it so that new judges had to be elected by a 2/3 majority, rather that a simple majority, which went against the republicans who wanted to use their Senate majority to gain more power. You should listen to the man's policies, he has some ideas you might agree with.

[Graeme]

Actually, involvement means everything in a democracy. Apathetic people get nothing done.

Additionally, I'm against anyone who supported/supports the war in Iraq. And although I am fairly certain you are a staunch advocate of said war, I don't think we should have a discussion about it.

Having said that, as you have stated that Rush Limbaugh is your hero it is clear that you and I have absolutely nothing in common, so regardless of the topic, I doubt we shall agree on anything.

And so far nothing I have heard McCain say makes me want to vote for him.

[Mandiloquence]

Actually, involvement means everything in a democracy. Apathetic people get nothing done.

Additionally, I'm against anyone who supported/supports the war in Iraq. And although I am fairly certain you are a staunch advocate of said war, I don't think we should have a discussion about it.

Having said that, as you have stated that Rush Limbaugh is your hero it is clear that you and I have absolutely nothing in common, so regardless of the topic, I doubt we shall agree on anything.

And so far nothing I have heard McCain say makes me want to vote for him.

I completely agree about the involvement, though does is seem to you that a bit of the excitement over Obama has diminished now that Clinton has won Pennsylvania?

However, I'm sure you two could agree on something. If you look hard enough.

I just hope that Obama and Clinton don't suffer so much damage from their "debates" that all McCain has to do is sit by and win the election.

[pianojames111]

i think obama has nothing to offer except for this miraculous "change" that he preaches about non-stop. i don't see what in america needs to be changed so much. I think everything is fine except the media has corrupted everyone and made them think everything is bad so people are going crazy over "change". I agree we should not elect another idiot like bush but we don't need someone who is going to change everything when it is all okay. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[Mandiloquence]

i think obama has nothing to offer except for this miraculous "change" that he preaches about non-stop. i don't see what in america needs to be changed so much. I think everything is fine except the media has corrupted everyone and made them think everything is bad so people are going crazy over "change". I agree we should not elect another idiot like bush but we don't need someone who is going to change everything when it is all okay. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Um, I'm sorry if this offends you, but: WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON EXACTLY?

I think there are thousands of things that could be changed, ideally. Though only a very select hundred or so absolutely need to be changed. Let's start with gas prices, since they are the most complained about. Oh, or that little war thing. And what about unemployment, and the fact that millions of people are losing their homes because they can't pay their mortgages? There is also the fact of politician corruption, unfair taxes, environmental issues, healthcare problems, the fact that the dollar isn't worth anything...and the list goes on.

[BluelandChica17]

Clinton for Pres 2008.

I like her. I like her policies. I think that the US needs someone with experience to get us out of the hole that Bush put it in. I like Obama, and I like some of his policies, and wouldn't be against him as pres, but I really think it needs to be someone with more experience.

NO MCCAIN!!!!! One thing I hate about him other than him and his policies is how he's gathering the "sympathy vote", especially from veterans and senior citizens. I understand he was a POW. That's great for him. I DON'T CARE! Being stuck in a prison in vietnam for a year does NOT give you the experience a person needs to be president of a country, especially a country that's in deep sh*t right now. Anyone who says "Oh, let's stay in the war" is definitly messed in the head.

Edited April 25, 2008 by BluelandChica17

[pianojames111]

Clinton for Pres 2008.

I like her. I like her policies. I think that the US needs someone with experience to get us out of the hole that Bush put it in. I like Obama, and I like some of his policies, and wouldn't be against him as pres, but I really think it needs to be someone with more experience.

NO MCCAIN!!!!! One thing I hate about him other than him and his policies is how he's gathering the "sympathy vote", especially from veterans and senior citizens. I understand he was a POW. That's great for him. I DON'T CARE! Being stuck in a prison in vietnam for a year does NOT give you the experience a person needs to be president of a country, especially a country that's in deep sh*t right now. Anyone who says "Oh, let's stay in the war" is definitly messed in the head.

Now what do you have against the war? You cannot argue that the death toll is too high. That measly 4,040 lost during 7 years of battle is nothing compared to the amount lost during the first 2 months during the attack on the beaches of Normandy. 12,000 good men died in two months. But we are toiling over 4000 in 7 years. That is nothing. Mind you, we should not have had to lose a single life during the war because it could have been better fought but the soldiers are trying as hard as the government will let them during this "humane war". Those words make me sick to my stomach. You cannot expect the soldiers to do any better during the war that what they are doing when they have to write a report for every bullet they fire. "Humane War" is an oxymoron and an equation for disaster and massive loss of life. If pacifists and bleeding-hearts would let the war be fought like a war should be, we could have done the exact same thing we did to Fallujia to the rest of the Middle East. So you now think that pulling troops out will make all of our problems in the Middle East go away? Of course not. But that is what will happen if Hillary or Obama is elected. They will have the troops out of there faster than any defensive ostrich would bury its head in the sand, hoping for the problem to go away. And if McCaine has to gather a sympathy vote to better help the country and the world, then so be it. It will make the world a better place for all of us, and lower the price of gas. So you think being soft and peaceful will help solve the problems of the world, then you are sorely mistaken, because the terrorists in the Mid-East will not settle down for a talk, they will bomb the gathering of peace just because they hate us. Give me your opinion on that.

Um, I'm sorry if this offends you, but: WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON EXACTLY?

I think there are thousands of things that could be changed, ideally. Though only a very select hundred or so absolutely need to be changed. Let's start with gas prices, since they are the most complained about. Oh, or that little war thing. And what about unemployment, and the fact that millions of people are losing their homes because they can't pay their mortgages? There is also the fact of politician corruption, unfair taxes, environmental issues, healthcare problems, the fact that the dollar isn't worth anything...and the list goes on.

Mandiloquence, I live on Earth and realize that there are problems, but not any that need to be changed by inviting a democrat who will say they will change everything and make everything better then they will sit in the oval office and watch bill after bill after bill go untouched because they cannot anger one single minority group. Gas prices are only a product of the war and they are closely related. The insurgents attacking us are angry at us because we buy oil from their corrupt government. They hate their government so they hate its prime financial backer, the United States. There are other reasons but that is the largest reason. Unemployment can only be solved by making everyone in the US on welfare programs go to work. They are the only unemployed ones. Millions of people are losing their homes because the are so far in debt from spending money they don't have. There has alway been and always will be political corruption. If you haven't figured that out I feel sorry for you. Human nature is selfish so when one gets in a position of power, they will choose themselves over others. Unfair taxes will only increase if a democrat is elected because they have to tax the working class to pay for all of those welfare programs the lazy people are living on. Environmental issues don't exist, once the democrat is in power, they will stop complaining because that argument is just one to get the republicans in trouble. Healthcare... people need to accept that death is a natural part of life and there is very little you do about it unless you are working. The only ones making a ruckus about the healthcare issue are the ones on financial aide who cannot afford it because they are on a limited income with the government paying them. The dollar is worth something in Mexico . Other than that, there is nothing we can do to affect that except stir up the economy a bit by lowering taxes in order to influence people to start spending. Satisfied???

Edited April 25, 2008 by HMSChocolate

[Graeme]

Piano, I'm starting to feel as though you have always had lots of money, and your family is probably very wealthy. You seem to look at the world from your perspective only, forgetting about the troubles that other people face, who in most cases aren't as fortunate as you or I.

Stop for a second and imagine yourself in a different position.. You are lucky, but apparently you don't seem to realise that. My guess is that your parents have the same views as you, and they are the ones who have "taught" you to believe in the things you do. There is nothing wrong with that, as it is the same with religion. But eventually I hope you will begin to see the bigger picture, and stop seeing the world from such a "selfish" viewpoint.

But as with many Americans (and indeed some people around the world), I suppose it doesn't matter to you, because as you so wonderfully put it, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it!"

Your life is great, so why should you care? You're entitled to your views... I'm just glad not everyone thinks that way.

[Mandiloquence]

Mandiloquence, I live on Earth and realize that there are problems, but not any that need to be changed by inviting a democrat who will say they will change everything and make everything better then they will sit in the oval office and watch bill after bill after bill go untouched because they cannot anger one single minority group. Gas prices are only a product of the war and they are closely related. The insurgents attacking us are angry at us because we buy oil from their corrupt government. They hate their government so they hate its prime financial backer, the United States. There are other reasons but that is the largest reason. Unemployment can only be solved by making everyone in the US on welfare programs go to work. They are the only unemployed ones. Millions of people are losing their homes because the are so far in debt from spending money they don't have. There has alway been and always will be political corruption. If you haven't figured that out I feel sorry for you. Human nature is selfish so when one gets in a position of power, they will choose themselves over others. Unfair taxes will only increase if a democrat is elected because they have to tax the working class to pay for all of those welfare programs the lazy people are living on. Environmental issues don't exist, once the democrat is in power, they will stop complaining because that argument is just one to get the republicans in trouble. Healthcare... people need to accept that death is a natural part of life and there is very little you do about it unless you are working. The only ones making a ruckus about the healthcare issue are the ones on financial aide who cannot afford it because they are on a limited income with the government paying them. The dollar is worth something in Mexico . Other than that, there is nothing we can do to affect that except stir up the economy a bit by lowering taxes in order to influence people to start spending. Satisfied???

Piano, I believe a great deal more would be changed through the election of a Democrat, rather than the election of a conservative Republican. Although the Democrats do not wish to significantly upset a large minority group, they are at least considering the possibility of change and embracing it, rather than attempting to go backwards. I think the proper thing to do with taxes is to increase the amount of taxes on the wealthy, who can afford it. The statement that the only unemployed people are those on welfare is ridiculous. There are many people that have lost their jobs due to the condition of the economy, and this is no fault of their own. Also, people are overspending; however, corruption in the bank system is generally to blame for extending high risk families large loans, with the motive of claiming the houses back after the family cannot afford to pay their mortgage. And I do understand that corruption will always exist, but it does not need to be anywhere near the extent where it is now. Environmental issues most definitely do exist, especially in the current condition of the world. People do understand that death is a part of life, but healthcare is very important for people who have cancer or other conditions that they cannot afford treatment for. It is completely untrue that the only people that cannot afford healthcare also are the only people on welfare. My family employs countless working people who can only afford health insurance for themselves, and must pay out of their own pockets when their children or spouse without insurance gets sick.

I really don't find your remark that the dollar is worth something in Mexico amusing. I do agree that the government should lower taxes on the middle class, and progress according to keynesian economics.

Also, I completely agree with Deus' post, and I could not have said it better myself, and I won't try.

So please, if only for your own good, attempt to see from the point of view of someone less fortunate than you once in a while.

Oh, and one last thing. This is a debate, not a "fight".

[BluelandChica17]

Piano,

I never said anything about the death toll, although I do not think you chose the right word. Measly? 4,040 isn’t something I’d call measly, especially for something that shouldn’t even be happening.

War is never humane. Putting dogs to sleep because they will are suffering and have no chance of recovering is humane. War is not.

I think the war needs to end. If pulling troops out is the only way to do it, than so be it. A wise man once told me that the people that live in the US act the way it is run. The country (government more specifically) sticks it’s head where it doesn’t belong. Just stay out of it! Am I saying that interference isn’t needed at times? No. It is. People in the US don’t want to look at it the way it should be. The US’s the big bad bully. There’s people on here that are from other countries. What do you think? Is US the bully? When an US citizen goes to another country, how are they looked at? “Eww, those Americans.” US’s a jerk in the scheme of things. International relationships are great, but international bullyships are not. When you were younger and were picked on, what did you do? Sit back and take it or fight back? Sometimes being passive is the way to go.

McCain will not better the country. He will not win the election. Bush has done too much damage to the country. A republican will not take office.

The US shouldn’t have to solve the problems of the world. That’s the job of each country. The US has a lot of problems as it is. Do you see anyone coming here to fix them? Um, no. When the civil war was fought, did any countries come and aid the fights, send their soldiers to die for a cause not even on their soil? The Vietnam war was fought between North and the South. IT was a problem between Vietnam. But who fought? The US.

Everyone hates us because we put our business where it shouldn’t be.

[pianojames111]

Piano, I'm starting to feel as though you have always had lots of money, and your family is probably very wealthy. You seem to look at the world from your perspective only, forgetting about the troubles that other people face, who in most cases aren't as fortunate as you or I.

Stop for a second and imagine yourself in a different position.. You are lucky, but apparently you don't seem to realise that. My guess is that your parents have the same views as you, and they are the ones who have "taught" you to believe in the things you do. There is nothing wrong with that, as it is the same with religion. But eventually I hope you will begin to see the bigger picture, and stop seeing the world from such a "selfish" viewpoint.

But as with many Americans (and indeed some people around the world), I suppose it doesn't matter to you, because as you so wonderfully put it, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it!"

Your life is great, so why should you care? You're entitled to your views... I'm just glad not everyone thinks that way.

well, it is true, i have always had lots of money, but not because my parents make millions of dollars, it is because they used proper money management. I have imagined myself in the position of the other poor fellow, but I see that there is nothing different between him and I. There is only the way we were raised. I was raised to work without question, and it holds true. At 14 years old, I am applying for jobs near my house. I do work around my house with no request of money. it is the way you were raised that will decide the fate of your future. because, in my house, i am expected to work. I n the home of a homeless person (before they were homeless) or one on welfare, they were never expected to work. They never had a parent that was a good role model. Am I saying they have no right to be happy? No. But the homeless person does not see that there are ways of getting money, enough to get a haircut and a clean shave. then, they apply for a job, do some hard grunt work for some amount of time, get some references. They need a good work ethic. All of this Bull**** about what society has done to these poor people. There is nothing that society has done to them that hasn't been done to any other middle to lower class person with a job. it is not my responsibility to make sure these people can make a living. The ones on welfare programs were probably from parents on welfare and expect their government to take care of them. If you think you should be taxed to help a homeless person, then that is a personality issue that cannot be argued. I am sorry if my views offend you, but they will not change.

Piano, I believe a great deal more would be changed through the election of a Democrat, rather than the election of a conservative Republican. Although the Democrats do not wish to significantly upset a large minority group, they are at least considering the possibility of change and embracing it, rather than attempting to go backwards. I think the proper thing to do with taxes is to increase the amount of taxes on the wealthy, who can afford it. The statement that the only unemployed people are those on welfare is ridiculous. There are many people that have lost their jobs due to the condition of the economy, and this is no fault of their own. Also, people are overspending; however, corruption in the bank system is generally to blame for extending high risk families large loans, with the motive of claiming the houses back after the family cannot afford to pay their mortgage. And I do understand that corruption will always exist, but it does not need to be anywhere near the extent where it is now. Environmental issues most definitely do exist, especially in the current condition of the world. People do understand that death is a part of life, but healthcare is very important for people who have cancer or other conditions that they cannot afford treatment for. It is completely untrue that the only people that cannot afford healthcare also are the only people on welfare. My family employs countless working people who can only afford health insurance for themselves, and must pay out of their own pockets when their children or spouse without insurance gets sick.

I really don't find your remark that the dollar is worth something in Mexico amusing. I do agree that the government should lower taxes on the middle class, and progress according to keynesian economics.

Also, I completely agree with Deus' post, and I could not have said it better myself, and I won't try.

So please, if only for your own good, attempt to see from the point of view of someone less fortunate than you once in a while.

Oh, and one last thing. This is a debate, not a "fight".

You still have not explained what can be changed about all of the problems you listed. If you are going to complain about all of these problems, then offer a solution at least. I have offered my solution, no matter how cold hearted. The problem is not with the government, it is with the human race so I am done with this subject. This is not a problem that can be solved by a bandying of words. Goodbye.

Piano,

I never said anything about the death toll, although I do not think you chose the right word. Measly? 4,040 isn’t something I’d call measly, especially for something that shouldn’t even be happening.

War is never humane. Putting dogs to sleep because they will are suffering and have no chance of recovering is humane. War is not.

I think the war needs to end. If pulling troops out is the only way to do it, than so be it. A wise man once told me that the people that live in the US act the way it is run. The country (government more specifically) sticks it’s head where it doesn’t belong. Just stay out of it! Am I saying that interference isn’t needed at times? No. It is. People in the US don’t want to look at it the way it should be. The US’s the big bad bully. There’s people on here that are from other countries. What do you think? Is US the bully? When an US citizen goes to another country, how are they looked at? “Eww, those Americans.” US’s a jerk in the scheme of things. International relationships are great, but international bullyships are not. When you were younger and were picked on, what did you do? Sit back and take it or fight back? Sometimes being passive is the way to go.

McCain will not better the country. He will not win the election. Bush has done too much damage to the country. A republican will not take office.

The US shouldn’t have to solve the problems of the world. That’s the job of each country. The US has a lot of problems as it is. Do you see anyone coming here to fix them? Um, no. When the civil war was fought, did any countries come and aid the fights, send their soldiers to die for a cause not even on their soil? The Vietnam war was fought between North and the South. IT was a problem between Vietnam. But who fought? The US.

Everyone hates us because we put our business where it shouldn’t be.

You are right, measly is not the right word. Tragic, a large loss, but still not as much as lost in the past. Next, pulling the troops out is not the only way. We do belong in the Middle east because we are supporting a horribly corrupt government with the massive sums of money we are giving them. The US is not the Big Bad bully. The US is becoming a bunch of Pacifists who think we are becoming the Big Bad Bully. Are you serious??? International bullyships??? When I was younger and was picked on, I fought back because that is the way you stop the bully altogether. In the case of the middle east, the terrorists started it. 9/11?? ring a bell. that was an attack on the freedom and as an american, i would think you should know that. We don't interfere with no reason. I cannot believe you are comparing the civil war to this one? Other countries barely knew about it, nor would they like to help. But with increased communication between countries in seconds, there is a difficult decision to make as to whether or not to help. Vietnam was a mistake. I accept that. but they are not the same war. And once more, we belong in the middle east because without them, our entire country would collapse because of the loss of a way to get to work. I am finished. Goodbye.

[Graeme]

Once again, you have failed to realise what I believe taxes should be for. It's not to give money to people for free. It's to allow people equal opportunity. Taxes should go to school funding, better healthcare, better law enforcement, and other public services that allow people to work for themselves.

You are able to go to a good school, eat well, and live a good life because your parents are wealthy (and most of the people here are in similar situations).

Stop being so cynical. Did you parents honestly tell you that all poor people are poor because they are lazy?

[pianojames111]

Once again, you have failed to realise what I believe taxes should be for. It's not to give money to people for free. It's to allow people equal opportunity. Taxes should go to school funding, better healthcare, better law enforcement, and other public services that allow people to work for themselves.

You are able to go to a good school, eat well, and live a good life because your parents are wealthy (and most of the people here are in similar situations).

Stop being so cynical. Did you parents honestly tell you that all poor people are poor because they are lazy?

But you should know the wealthy are taxed. The taxes are going to the welfare programs instead of the schools, roads, healthcare, and law enforcement. Me, go to a good school? hah! the only thing good about my school is the IB program, and that is only because the school is 40 years old and the first in the area. Other than that, it is in the middle of the poorest town in the city and the most violent. There are gang members in the school, and there are jerks, and assholes as well. My school is not the best. But my life is good. I give you that. I get that not all poor people are lazy, but the ones on welfare are. and no, they did not tell me that.