Homosexuality

[Arrowhead]

First of all, we're not the most adequate people to be debating this topic lol We're just students that have no deep knowledge about this whole Morality topic.

However, just look at what is happening. Gay people are growing. Not because they now have the freedom to assume themselves as gay but because of other aspects. We've actually reverted what is the basis of democracy: we've turned the minorities more powerful than the majorities. You see, all the politicians want, is to have votes. Thus, they give freedom of speech and freedom of sex. But what are the repercussions to the society?

Not to begin with the whole religious part of it and to mention all that has been said, it definitely corrupts the society. Usually, gay couples that adopt a child will almost force their adopted child to be gay as well. So, where is the freedom of choice here? A child is constantly given the opportunity to experience something that corrupts their mind with thoughts that most of the times are not real. Gay people say that we are all gay, it's just the society that has been telling us that is wrong. And to prove this, they use Freud's method (which btw, has been considered to not be valid for most of the psychological problems...). Where is ethics here? They are disturbing a person's mind.

Now look at this in a more small world. Imagine two best friends. Doesn't matter their sex. One thinks that he's having feelings for the other. As all of you must've experienced, when a person starts to like the other (in opposite sex) it always gives either the wrong way or they end up dating. Now, as the other one is not gay, what will happen is an obsession to turn the other one gay because gay people cannot accept the fact that others are not gay (AND if you actually analyse their attitude, gay people turn out to be the most aggressive despite the fact that they seem to be fragile at a first glance). For gay people, there is no such thing as friendship. Friendship is just a beginning to a relationship. This is another reason to a problem they have: Gay people cannot maintain a relationship stable because they are not capable of being with the same person forever (which does not happen in real marriage - if the marriage is properly held and husband and wife are committed). No matter what happens, they will not stay together if another gay comes. Gay people tend to have (and sorry for using the word) orgies. Hence, I ask, where is the concept of matrimony?? There is no such thing for them.

It was not that deep in terms of TOK but it was meant to talk about what really goes on in reality in a society that accepts homosexuality. Friendship is not a natural thing. It was created by Man (if not by God) and it's quite a strange bond that you won't find in any other species. All the other ones just live in community but there won't be any bond that we can name as friendship.

Hope you got my ideas. and yes, I'm absolutely against homosexuality...

That is one of the most disturbed and f*cked up things I have ever read. Dear Lord, where do you get your information from?

Where do you get off gay couples forcing their adoptive children or so being gay? My neighbours are a gay couple and they're some of the nicest people I've ever met. I dunno which rock you live under, but if you do ever listen to the news, it's generally the opposite, straight couples force their gay children to be straight. You would think that a gay couple constitutes people who at some level have been encouraged to not be who they are, these people more than anyone else would be more receptive and understanding of their children's identities and needs. This has to be one of the most screwed up claims I've ever heard being made. Consequently, your Freudian argument fails to stand since the essential claim is baseless.

You seem to think that a gay man or woman is inherently a stalker and obsessed with what he/she wants. News flash, when I find out someone I like is not gay, I just shrug and move on, I don't start a desperate campaign to turn him gay, that would be insane. However, what I have seen often is a straight woman convincing a gay man that he is really straight, that's actually a pretty common thing to happen (speaking from personal experience here). I'm sure that there are some gay men/women who are weird and disturbing and stalkerish, but no more in proportion to the straight men/women out there who are the same. To generalise that all gay men/women are such is ludicrous and you should really worry about your ToK essay because I imagine your narrow-mindedness precipitating to a monumental failure.

You did not just call gay people 'fragile'? That is a stereotype, I'm bisexual and I can guarantee you that I could beat up a 100% straight boy, just as I'm sure vice-versa is possible. The whole 'womanly' gay stereotype does happen, but it is not dominant among all gay men. To believe so is unfathomable.

Gay people are not naturally attracted to having orgies you twisted...urgh! Hello? Do you know what is considered every straight man's dream? A threesome with two women, the epitome of all fantasies. Not exactly matrimonial and monogamous. Also, I don't know which world you live in, but marriages are falling apart all around us, infidelity is widespread, and divorce rates are skyrocketing. And this has me thinking, what about those Muslim Shahs who take on 4-5 wives? What guarantee is there that they're not having super sex orgies in gigantic master bedrooms? And even if they were, who cares? Just to make a point that the want for a 'orgy' is prevalent among straight and gay communities in equal proportions.

Gay people can too maintain a relationship. My most successful relationship since puberty lasted 6 months and that was with a man. All my relationships with women have fallen apart for one reason or another within a few months. While I may not be the greatest example out there, I know loads of gay friends who've been in committed, loving, long-standing relationships with each other spanning years, years. A feat that most married couples can't accomplish in this day and age.

You, you live under a rock, a rock on a lonely, deserted island in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle. You have no idea what you've just commented on so vociferously. Yes, you have an opinion, but your opinion is so objectively wrong that it is nothing more than ignorance on you part.

[kim luffy]

I totally support gay people fully. I actually have enemies because of supporting gay relationships lol. In my TOK class it's like i'm the only one actually, who supports gay relationships and when i say i do, people well, just hate on me. Especially the religious people in my class (no offense to any religious people out there), they have the most closed minds i have ever seen. They just don't listen, it's like speaking to a wall.

Being gay isn't bad and there's nothing wrong with it. And i agree with what Arrowhead said, gay people are really loving and nice. And they absolutely do not want their children to turn gay either. On the contrary i think they don't want them to for reasons that are their own but i don't think they'd FORCE them to do it. It's really absurd. Also, i don't think gay people would attempt to turn their partner gay. I had a friend who was gay and if he wasn't liked by the guy he loved/liked, he accepted it and moved on like what Arrowhead said. He even became close friends with the dude and he had no feelings towards him whatsoever later on. They're not really like that.

If you relate it to religion and say god doesn't like gay people then why did he create them in the first place. You're like saying god made a mistake which we know he cant' do blah blah blah. And well that's what my brother told me when i asked about gay relationships but he's still against it.

Anyway, i think gay marriages/relationships should be allowed. They're humans too and well they can do whatever they want. If they want to be gay, let them be gay. why do we care so much? it's their lives not ours so the least we can do is leave them be.

Edited December 5, 2011 by kim luffy

[Award Winning Boss]

Oh dear Arrowhead has taken the stage by storm!

anyway, I'm have nothing against gay people. Why should I? I think to say that it is against nature is ignorant. Why would people choose to gay and straight people not choose to be straight? It's backwards and counter productive to say that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed the same rights as a straight person.

I've been called a fool, ignorant, blind and many other things because I'm a religious person that supports the rights of gay people. It shouldn't even need to be an issue!

To those who are against homosexuals how would you know if someone is gay without them ever saying? So when they do say why should you suddenly hate them?

It's organisations such as the west Boro Baptist church that are seen as the most hated 'church' in the world so to those who support it are wholeheartedly against homosexuality.

Anyway to finish with a phrase I saw on a picket sign

"If you hate gay people, blame the straight couples for making all the gay people" - random phrase I saw that I am claiming as mine

[marine18]

Being gay isn't natural, you can't reproduce together. There is just a hormonal imbalance that has been passed on from generation to generation. I think being gay is wrong, but cannot be helped. Seriously not trying be offensive, but it is almost like being mentally handicapped. It doesn't fit in societies norms, but it isn't wrong either. What can ya do?

[Award Winning Boss]

Being gay isn't natural, you can't reproduce together. There is just a hormonal imbalance that has been passed on from generation to generation. I think being gay is wrong, but cannot be helped. Seriously not trying be offensive, but it is almost like being mentally handicapped. It doesn't fit in societies norms, but it isn't wrong either. What can ya do?

You're being serious aren't you?

[The Economist]

Being gay isn't natural, you can't reproduce together. There is just a hormonal imbalance that has been passed on from generation to generation. I think being gay is wrong, but cannot be helped. Seriously not trying be offensive, but it is almost like being mentally handicapped. It doesn't fit in societies norms, but it isn't wrong either. What can ya do?

You seem to be ignoring the definition of the word "natural". It means to be found in nature. I'm pretty sure that you lack the knowledge of research made on this matter, so allow me to inform you. Homosexuality is indeed found in nature (please, educate yourself and watch this mini-lecture:

).

Also the "you can't reproduce together" comment is utterly irrelevant to the existence of homosexuality in nature. By the way, this planet is already overpopulated, so homosexuals are doing you a favor by not reproducing. Of course you are probably forgetting about all the orphans in need of a home which are happily adopted by homosexual couples (but they are going to turn these kids gay, aren't they? ). Oh, I forgot to mention that your second sentence contradicts the first one. If it is biologically passed from one generation to another, how can you debate that homosexuality is not found in nature? Really? And to quote AHiddenName, "you're being serious, aren't you?". Let's move on to your third ignorant sentence. "Being gay is wrong". Why? Because you say so? Because some religious close-minded people say so? Because your parents say so? Anyway, because I'm (desperately) trying not to be offensive, please do no equate mental disabilities with homosexuality because you simply highlight your ignorance. And to respond to your question ("what can ya do?"), we can only hope that some day you'll understand how wrong your approach towards homosexuality is. See you around, kid.

[marine18]

Put 100 gay people on an island, and 100 straight people on an island. Let's see whose successful after a few decades then.

[Award Winning Boss]

Put 100 gay people on an island, and 100 straight people on an island. Let's see whose successful after a few decades then.

Neither would... i'm allowed to assume they're all men.

Being gay is a mental disability? That is the first and hopefully the last i ever hear such stupidity.

If you found out your best friend was gay why do i feel that i could bet my life that you wouldn't call him mentally disabled?

Edited December 5, 2011 by King Glau

[Sabs44]

Put 100 gay people on an island, and 100 straight people on an island. Let's see whose successful after a few decades then.

That's a completely invalid point. If you're trying to make a point about how the gay people can't reproduce and therefore will be unsuccessful, you've completely missed the point of the question. It's not about who will succeed on a desert island, it's about giving everyone the same basic human rights.

[marine18]

And I said allow rights, was not against rights. The argument against me was whether it is right or wrong. Which I am gathering evidence for and will be back in an hour, but while I'm out. Have fun with your boyfriends booty holes

[marine18]

Some statistics about the Homosexual lifestyle:

* One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only one time with over 50% of their partners (3)

* One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime

* Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7)

* Many homosexuals don't pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior" (16)

* Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27)

* Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population

* Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome" (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27)

* 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13)

* 25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11)

* Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro", one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex

* 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20)

* Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10)

* Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10)

* 50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10)

* Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, "Homosexuality by definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normal person" (10). For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality

* It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10)

* Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population

* Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8)

* 37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8)

* 41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8)

* Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with intestinal parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy third world countries (8)

* The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8)

* The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8)

* Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident (8)

* 21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these things(8)

* 50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer bashing" involved domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals) (18)

* About 50% of the women on death row are lesbians (12).

Homosexuals prey on children.

* 33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7)

* There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands of members, known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States

* Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19)

* 73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9)

* Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality" (22)

* Because homosexuals can't reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their homosexual parades. A group called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other homosexuals aren't as overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get into positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian Avengers web page, and DC Lesbian Avengers Press Release, where they threaten to recruit little boys and girls. Also, see AFA Action Alert.

The homosexual agenda.

* The homosexual agenda includes desensitizing the public: "The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights.....To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games....At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing...then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won" (25)

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rally on Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans already have -- to see government and society affirm our lives" (27)

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion" (1)

* Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figure (i.e., homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that figure when most gay people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our numerousness" (17).

The true number of homosexuals.

* The Kinsey study of 1948, which homosexuals often cite to say that 10% of the population is homosexual, actually says that only 4% of the population is EXCLUSIVELY homosexual. This study involved a disproportionate number of people who had been in jail for sex crimes (hardly a random sample of the population). Kinsey also did perverse studies involving young boys and pedophiles. Information on Kinsey

* Current research shows that the true percentage of homosexuals is in the 1-2% range (15,23,26,28). Consider how small this number is when compared to most of the numbers above.

Homosexuals aren't discriminated against in employment, so why should they be a protected class?

* The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00 (24)

* 59.6% of homosexuals are college graduates. 18.0% of the general population are college graduates (24). Too bad they aren't smart enough to listen to God. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)

* 49.0% of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24). Where's the job discrimination?

Sexual Orientation

• A phrase that has come up recently in this earth is "sexual orientation." This is a phrase made up by homosexuals to try to make themselves look less filthy than they really are. The purpose of the phrase is to take the spotlight from what these perverts do, and put it on the notion that they are just poor, mistreated people, who simply are attracted to members of the same sex - as if they aren't engaging in activity forbidden by God Almighty. "Sexual orientation," as used today, has nothing to do with sexual activity (yeah, right), but only refers to who or what a particular person is attracted to. If you think that people of other "sexual orientations" are just fine, let's see what other "sexual orientations" you would necessarily have to accept as wholesome and pure. If you're not going to discriminate based on "sexual orientation", then you must not discriminate against any of the following. Bestiality, pedophile, necrophilia., exhibitionism, fetishism, frotteurism, masochism, sadism, transvestitism, voyeurism. If you discriminate against any of these, you're a hypocrite. These "sexual orientations" are generally known as "paraphilias", and are mental disorders - just like homosexuality used to be (29).

•

REFERENCES

(1) Advocate, 1985

(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry

(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978

(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985, 70, pp. 292-299

(5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987

(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38

(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE

(8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" Marietta, GA

(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275

(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992

(11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America." Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254

(12) Lesbian News, January 1994

(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11

(14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens." J. American Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438

(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy (16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco." Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96

(17) Newsweek, February 1993

(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993

(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37

(20) Rueda, E. "The Homosexual Network." Old Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982, p. 53

(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We Talk." (22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992

(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322

(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990

(25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide Magazine. November, 1987

(26) United States Census Bureau (27) United States Congressional Record, June 29, 1989

(28) University of Chicago's Nation Research Corp

(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 1994.

© 2000- 2003 International Organization of Heterosexual Rights

[The Economist]

As soon as I make up my own statistics, I'll let you know, dear

[Gaby]

Put 100 gay people on an island, and 100 straight people on an island. Let's see whose successful after a few decades then.

You are aware that many heterosexual people are infertile, right? And many others decide not to reproduce for other reasons, other than not being able to physically?

And that child molesters are, considering that there are more heterosexuals than homosexuals, mostly hetero? In general, it's a disorder and I'm not quite sure that such sexual disorders are exclusively (or not exclusively, even at all) connected to homosexuality.

* 33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7) <- who do we consider a minor? It really makes a difference, to be honest.

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion" <- I've read a very nice article once where there were gay people who were Christians talking. And you know what? Even though they weren't happy the Church didn't accept them, they were still Christians. They started a group for gay Christians. Not a problem if you don't make it a problem.

* The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8) <- when was this data gathered?

* It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10) <- AIDS/HIV is not a homosexual disease only, you know? Sometimes children get it from their mothers. I don't think these mothers are gay.

To sum up all your lovely numerical data (as my Psych teacher taught me, quantitive data is easy to analyse, nice and all, but doesn't say anything about any individual person), I have one question: When was all of this data gathered? Because, from what I see looking at the sources, most of them are over 10 years old (at least!), so the data must have been collected even earlier. You do realise such data changes, right?

[Arrowhead]

It seems that are our resident has decided to 'show us (who support that homosexuality is alright) up' by bringing in a plethora of statistics of questionable validity. The reason I say questionable is because she cites her source as the International Organisation of Heterosexual Rights.

Not exactly the most neutral of parties.

The reason I believe there is some doubt in their statistics is because alongside these lovely points elucidated above, there are also some other interesting nuggets of truth they've displayed on their site. For example:

"DO TERRORISM AND HOMOSEXUALITY ALWAYS WALK HAND IN HAND?"

"Are You, The Homosexuals of This Country, Stupid? Are You Trying To Kill Everybody!"

"Gay Activists made false allegations against "Love In Action" and "Refuge Program". Gay Activists make false claims to further the gay agenda. They have used the "we're the victim", and "need special rights" avenue many times in the past. Groups Like "Queer Action Coalition" and GLSEN's "Gay Straight Alliance" have used tactics like Intimidation, mass protest, harassment and flat out LIES to further their agenda."

"Homosexuals will commit violence to silence the truth. the beating of a church worker. So who is really committing the hate crimes, HOMOSEXUALS are!"

"Homosexual activist groups insist that your children are taught how to perform homosexual acts by the time they are in junior high school"

"Medical research now shows that homosexuality and gender identity disorder may be caused by SOY TOXINS and environmental poisons! Are you choosing your child's sexuality for him/her?"

But enough of questionable evidence, I decided to try to bring in some points of view from some more reputed sources:

Neither the existence of national laws, nor the prevalence of custom can ever justify the abuse, attacks, torture and indeed killings that gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender persons are subjected to because of who they are or are perceived to be. Because of the stigma attached to issues surrounding sexual orientation and gender identity, violence against LGBT persons is frequently unreported, undocumented and goes ultimately unpunished. Rarely does it provoke public debate and outrage. This shameful silence is the ultimate rejection of the fundamental principle of universality of rights.

That was the former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, someone at the top of the world in her research for human rights and their protection. Would you contend that she was misinformed and wrong in her beliefs, the woman who was at the behest of directing world resources to substantial causes of human rights?

For a long time, homosexuals have been subject to intense forms of marginalisation and social and political exclusion, not only in our country but also in many other societies. Not only have homosexual behaviours been and continue to be criminalised by various legal provisions but, in addition, in the daily life, people with this sexual preference have been excluded from multiple social benefits and have had to [endure] social stigmatisation, which have amounted to, in the most extreme cases, campaigns of extermination against these populations. [...] The situation of homosexuals has been justified via conceptions according to which these people, because they present/display a sexual orientation different from the majority of the population, had been considered abnormal, ill, or immoral. [...] These old conceptions against homosexuality contradict essential values of contemporary public law, based on pluralism and recognition of autonomy and equal dignity of people and different walks of life.

That was the ruling of a Constitutional Court, a body of authority, a figure that can actually make a difference with its deliberations and decisions as opposed to an organisation like the International Organisation for Heterosexual Rights illuminated by our dear OP.

In the cause of gays, history and experience teach us that the scarring [biz] comes not from poverty or powerlessness, but from invisibility. It is the tainting of desire, it is the attribution of perversity and shame to spontaneous bodily affection, it is the prohibition of the expression of love, it is the denial of full moral citizenship in society because you are what you are, that impinges on the dignity and self-worth of a group. This special vulnerability of gays and lesbians as a minority group whose behaviour deviates from the official norm stems from the fact that [...] gays constitute a distinct though invisible section of the community that has been treated not only with disrespect or condescension but with disapproval and revulsion; they are not generally obvious as a group, pressurised by society and the law to remain invisible their identifying characteristic combines all the anxieties produced by sexuality with all the alienating effects resulting from difference; and they are seen as especially contagious or prone to corrupting others. None of these factors appl[y] to other groups traditionally subject to discrimination, such as people of colour or women, each of who, of course, have had to suffer their own specific forms of oppression.

A further highlight from a Lord Justice of the Constitutinal Court of South Africa, the only woman on the Council, a lesbian, educated at Oxford and Cambridge, and recipient of an award for female scholars in South Africa. Would you consider this gay woman to be mentally deficient?

Finally, I direct you to:

To penalise someone because of their sexual orientation is like what used to happen to us, to be penalised for something which we could do nothing about our ethnicity, out race [...] I would find it quite unacceptable to condemn, persecute a minority that has already been persecuted.

These are only a few of the introductory quotes. Feel free to have a look at the whole document: http://icj.org/IMG/P...GuideonSOGI.pdf

It is called Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, and International Human Rights Law. This was one of the first documents of its nature passed by one of the most esteemed of international judicial bodies: The International Commission of Jurists.

It is also worth noting that the seven individuals who chaired this entire commission on this report were involved in deep human rights issues since a long time: two having been founding members of the Human Rights Watch, another was on the panel for the International Arbitration Commission on Yugoslavia and the atrocities for Opinions 6 and 3 in Bosnia-Herzegovina and Kosovo in the '90s, a fourth served as a judge of the International Criminal Court, and two other were pre-eminent in bringing to light the need for legality of homosexuality in cross-jurisdictional borders across the Atlantic.

Very distinguished, very intelligent people. People whose words are worth reading and whose opinions you can respect.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Arrowhead

[kim luffy]

Homosexuals are not disabled people and that is really ignorant to say like what A hidden name and Jirashimosu said. How can they be categorized to be disabled? do you know what the definition of being 'disabled' is? Definitely not being gay. I agree with with Jirashimosu said, they're actually doing us a favour, they help orphans by giving them homes and they don't turn them gay. They also help reduce the population since they can't reproduce (with the exception of this one gay couple that had a child). We are no one to question if being gay is right or wrong neither are other people. You don't see them coming into our lives and questioning us or whatever. We should think for ourselves and question whether being gay is bad or good on our own basis and what we think is right or wrong (ethics bringing in TOK ways of knowing). We shouldn't base it on something that we read from a holy book, watched on tv, read online, what our parents tell us etc. We can think and judge for ourselves and we shouldn't depend on what others say because majority will say that being gay/lesbian is wrong and one way or the other, will relate it to religion.

Edited December 6, 2011 by kim luffy

[CkyBlue]

Being gay isn't natural, you can't reproduce together. There is just a hormonal imbalance that has been passed on from generation to generation. I think being gay is wrong, but cannot be helped. Seriously not trying be offensive, but it is almost like being mentally handicapped. It doesn't fit in societies norms, but it isn't wrong either. What can ya do?

Being gay isn't natural? Being gay is wrong? Being gay is almost like being mentally handicapped?

So you say it isn't wrong, but you think it's wrong? Listen to yourself!

You should really broaden you views as to what you "think" is right or wrong. Is it right for you to not be yourself? Is it wrong for you to be yourself? Surely from your argument, the answers are yes if you are in the shoes of the homosexual. If it is wrong for a homosexual for him to be who he is, then you're also saying it's wrong for him to pursue happiness, and it's wrong for him to pursue love and life. Isn't that what we all do- don't we all try to pursue happiness in some way? If that's not natural, I don't know what is.

I am sorry you feel this way towards homosexuals. It is perfectly fine to dislike a homosexual, but you are disrespecting all homosexuals just because they are who they are. If so, what is the difference between you, and some racist jerk?

[The Economist]

Since this has been quite an active post, I thought I'd post this video which is certainly worth mentioning. Kudos, Mrs. Clinton.

[Guest Aldrich Mayoralgo]

Homosexuality, gay marriage, etc. - I'm pro all of these. These things have no direct harm. And most people arguing against natural selection keep quoting the bible. And honestly I find this pretty absurd because the bible in itself is a questionable reference (no offense to Christians). I mean the books in the bible were chosen by the very people who promote it so there's no essence of check and balance at all :-?. And sometimes the things they say to justify their claims are just weird. I remember when they said there were only 4 correct gospels they said that because there are 4 directions in the world (north south east west) or something like that. I may have gotten some details wrong but... my stance is still the same:

GIVE THE HOMOSEXUALS the freedom they deserve!!! Actually some people don't like using terms such as Gay, homosexual or straight since it limits and creates stereostypes somehow. SO GIVE PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES SEXUALLY

[stevens579]

First of all, we're not the most adequate people to be debating this topic lol We're just students that have no deep knowledge about this whole Morality topic.

However, just look at what is happening. Gay people are growing. Not because they now have the freedom to assume themselves as gay but because of other aspects. We've actually reverted what is the basis of democracy: we've turned the minorities more powerful than the majorities. You see, all the politicians want, is to have votes. Thus, they give freedom of speech and freedom of sex. But what are the repercussions to the society?

Not to begin with the whole religious part of it and to mention all that has been said, it definitely corrupts the society. Usually, gay couples that adopt a child will almost force their adopted child to be gay as well. So, where is the freedom of choice here? A child is constantly given the opportunity to experience something that corrupts their mind with thoughts that most of the times are not real. Gay people say that we are all gay, it's just the society that has been telling us that is wrong. And to prove this, they use Freud's method (which btw, has been considered to not be valid for most of the psychological problems...). Where is ethics here? They are disturbing a person's mind.

Now look at this in a more small world. Imagine two best friends. Doesn't matter their sex. One thinks that he's having feelings for the other. As all of you must've experienced, when a person starts to like the other (in opposite sex) it always gives either the wrong way or they end up dating. Now, as the other one is not gay, what will happen is an obsession to turn the other one gay because gay people cannot accept the fact that others are not gay (AND if you actually analyse their attitude, gay people turn out to be the most aggressive despite the fact that they seem to be fragile at a first glance). For gay people, there is no such thing as friendship. Friendship is just a beginning to a relationship. This is another reason to a problem they have: Gay people cannot maintain a relationship stable because they are not capable of being with the same person forever (which does not happen in real marriage - if the marriage is properly held and husband and wife are committed). No matter what happens, they will not stay together if another gay comes. Gay people tend to have (and sorry for using the word) orgies. Hence, I ask, where is the concept of matrimony?? There is no such thing for them.

It was not that deep in terms of TOK but it was meant to talk about what really goes on in reality in a society that accepts homosexuality. Friendship is not a natural thing. It was created by Man (if not by God) and it's quite a strange bond that you won't find in any other species. All the other ones just live in community but there won't be any bond that we can name as friendship.

Hope you got my ideas. and yes, I'm absolutely against homosexuality...

That is one of the most disturbed and f*cked up things I have ever read. Dear Lord, where do you get your information from?

Where do you get off gay couples forcing their adoptive children or so being gay? My neighbours are a gay couple and they're some of the nicest people I've ever met. I dunno which rock you live under, but if you do ever listen to the news, it's generally the opposite, straight couples force their gay children to be straight. You would think that a gay couple constitutes people who at some level have been encouraged to not be who they are, these people more than anyone else would be more receptive and understanding of their children's identities and needs. This has to be one of the most screwed up claims I've ever heard being made. Consequently, your Freudian argument fails to stand since the essential claim is baseless.

You seem to think that a gay man or woman is inherently a stalker and obsessed with what he/she wants. News flash, when I find out someone I like is not gay, I just shrug and move on, I don't start a desperate campaign to turn him gay, that would be insane. However, what I have seen often is a straight woman convincing a gay man that he is really straight, that's actually a pretty common thing to happen (speaking from personal experience here). I'm sure that there are some gay men/women who are weird and disturbing and stalkerish, but no more in proportion to the straight men/women out there who are the same. To generalise that all gay men/women are such is ludicrous and you should really worry about your ToK essay because I imagine your narrow-mindedness precipitating to a monumental failure.

You did not just call gay people 'fragile'? That is a stereotype, I'm bisexual and I can guarantee you that I could beat up a 100% straight boy, just as I'm sure vice-versa is possible. The whole 'womanly' gay stereotype does happen, but it is not dominant among all gay men. To believe so is unfathomable.

Gay people are not naturally attracted to having orgies you twisted...urgh! Hello? Do you know what is considered every straight man's dream? A threesome with two women, the epitome of all fantasies. Not exactly matrimonial and monogamous. Also, I don't know which world you live in, but marriages are falling apart all around us, infidelity is widespread, and divorce rates are skyrocketing. And this has me thinking, what about those Muslim Shahs who take on 4-5 wives? What guarantee is there that they're not having super sex orgies in gigantic master bedrooms? And even if they were, who cares? Just to make a point that the want for a 'orgy' is prevalent among straight and gay communities in equal proportions.

Gay people can too maintain a relationship. My most successful relationship since puberty lasted 6 months and that was with a man. All my relationships with women have fallen apart for one reason or another within a few months. While I may not be the greatest example out there, I know loads of gay friends who've been in committed, loving, long-standing relationships with each other spanning years, years. A feat that most married couples can't accomplish in this day and age.

You, you live under a rock, a rock on a lonely, deserted island in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle. You have no idea what you've just commented on so vociferously. Yes, you have an opinion, but your opinion is so objectively wrong that it is nothing more than ignorance on you part.

Although I am against homosexuality (because I find the concept weird), I have to say Animistic Anaemia got pwned. I think everyone should have rights and should not discriminate against sexual orientation, but that does not mean that I think homosexuality is "right" (no offense), But then again I have (inevitably) come under the influence of societal views.

The world is f*cked up anyway and we are probably going to kill ourselves in the near future.

[Ezak]

there is nothing that says that you have to commence in the actions that homosexuals do (basically doing all the stuff regular people do, but with a partner of the same sex) to not be against it. I find cosplayers and such wierd at times, but this does not mean that I am against it. Just because you are not doing something or do not like it, does not mean you are automatically against it.