Nov11/May12 #3 Examine the claim that it is possible to attain knowledge despite problems of bias and selection using history and at least one other AoK

[bina2398]

Using history and at least one other area of knowledge,examine the claim that it is possible to attain knowledge despite problems of bias and selection.

Are there any ideas for this essay topic?

The AOKs I was planning on using along with history were Art and Science

[d3athlig3r]

Using history and at least one other area of knowledge,examine the claim that it is possible to attain knowledge despite problems of bias and selection.

Are there any ideas for this essay topic?

The AOKs I was planning on using along with history were Art and Science

Wow, talk about a dead thread.

I just decided to go with this question as well. Still in the process of research though. >_>

[bina2398]

Using history and at least one other area of knowledge,examine the claim that it is possible to attain knowledge despite problems of bias and selection.

Are there any ideas for this essay topic?

The AOKs I was planning on using along with history were Art and Science

Wow, talk about a dead thread.

I just decided to go with this question as well. Still in the process of research though. >_>

Mhmm!

We already finised our rough draft. I found this one to be one of the better topics

[Abdominal Procrastinator]

I used natural science and history. I talked about how emotion the other WOK's differed. (Mine wasn't very good.)

[Keel]

Using history and at least one other area of knowledge,examine the claim that it is possible to attain knowledge despite problems of bias and selection.

Are there any ideas for this essay topic?

The AOKs I was planning on using along with history were Art and Science

Just some ideas for you to think about,

History can be divided into to two parts; historical facts and historiography:

Historical facts: Often there is too much evidence, thus when a historian ‘story tells’ or provides an account of what has happened it is often a simplified version of the evidence he has collected. Thus how he presents this simplification will effect how the historical facts are interpreted. Also there is the variable of what evidence he chooses to omit. While a historian would like to interview every person involved in an event, it is simply not possible. Thus they are selective in what they choose. Every historian will value a piece of evidence differently.

Historiography: This is the analysis of the ‘story telling’ and different interpretations are given. How someone interprets something is completely subjective and reliant on their past experience, culture, gender ect. Thus, this creates bias in the conclusion reached about the analysis of an event whether it be what caused ‘x’ or who was responsible for ‘y’.

Statistics in Mathematics is a great one to use in this essay as you can bring in normal distributions, null and alternate hypotheses testing, what defines the ‘critical region’ ect.

Hope this helps stimulate some ideas.

[mere55]

what examples did you end up using?

[Robb]

what examples did you end up using?

Japanese War crimes in china is a good one as are Japanese Textbook Controvosys

Iranian Holocuast Controvosy and holocaust denial are all goods ones.

For science it's more difficult

[Sandwich]

I think this is a pretty rubbish topic, to be honest, but one idea I think would be worthwhile is looking at the ways in which we identify bias and selection and how we attempt to correct for them. How do we identify bias and selection in History, and how do we allow for it? I also think it's worth pointing out that bias and selection in themselves tell us a lot about History - the title is "attain knowledge" rather than "obtain the truth" and I think that from that angle you could reasonably argue that all of it is knowledge, whether we correct for bias or not.

But yeah, I think the main point is how do we go about identifying and allowing for bias and selection?

I think Keel's idea about using stats in Maths is pretty good as another area of knowledge. How were you intending to use Art? Assuming that you didn't select it at random. I think that sharing ideas is quite a good idea as you've got to give in order to receive, etc., so mentioning that you've picked an area isn't much good unless you explain why! It's also hard for people to help you when they've no idea if you have ideas or not

[Ryan Giggs]

Only using history as an example.

I need to formulate 3 hipotesis (questions) related to the topic, which I will later give my response to throughout my essay.

Can anyone help me figure out some questions?

So far I have 1: Through the problems of bias and selection, is it really posible to attain knowledge?

[YeunJi Lee]

I chose the third essay question which is: Using history and at least one other area of knowledge, examine the claim that it is possible to attain knowledge despite problems of bias and selection.

I'm quite sure that I'm going to explore three areas of knowledge

but I don't know if I have to (at all) deal with the WOK (because the criteria say that AOK or/and WOK)

or if I have to deal with some...

If I have to, how many WOK would be appropriate? thanks!

[Chris Kuno]

AOK? WOK?

As many as necessary to appropriately explain where you are going in your essay. If it takes 2 then great! If it takes 100 (You aren't writing very efficiently) then so be it.

[ESToomere]

Copy-pasta from my notes:

- AoK: History and Media (social sciences)

- History is filled with bias, same with Media

- Look at all the viewpoints, something should come clear eventually

- History: victor vs loser vs neutral

- WWII for example is filled

- Media: mainstream vs private vs national

- USA, larger vs smaller

- Elections or other events

- Osama - USA vs Middle East and stuff

- Bias vs less-bias

Global example, local example, everyday-event etc.

Claim, example, counter-argument, overthrow the counter

Note the professional use of 'stuff'.

Might be helpful for some of you out there.

[smiley]

hi we've just been given our TOK essay list.

i'm thinking of doing my essay on the topic :

using history and at least one other area of knowladge, examine the claim that it is possible to attain knowladge despite problems of bias and selection.

any ideas on what i should do?

i really need help... i'm so confused!

- thank you!

[WK93]

Hi, I'm (my teacher) thinking of using physics as my AOK, and i was hoping on getting some tips as I'm pretty thick when it comes to TOK.

[smiley]

i was thinking of using photoghraphy.... my teacher suggested the case of sharbat gula ( the green eyed afghan girl)

how do i incorprate it into my essay? so confused!

[Sandwich]

i was thinking of using photoghraphy.... my teacher suggested the case of sharbat gula ( the green eyed afghan girl)

how do i incorprate it into my essay? so confused!

Well just think of it as it relates to the question and how to fit it into your essay ought to become relatively clear. Do you get some knowledge from the photo/what knowledge do you get?

And in what way is the photo a source of bias/selection?

I would say yes you do (it's very compelling, no? And explain what it's demonstrating) and then think about it. Would the photo have had the same impact and given us the same level of knowledge, for instance, if she'd had standard brown eyes? And so on! Once you've worked out how it illustrates an aspect of the question, I'm sure you can think how to include it.

I'd also perhaps look at calling it Art rather than Photography to make it clear which Area of Knowledge you're on about.

[Keel]

Hi, I'm (my teacher) thinking of using physics as my AOK, and i was hoping on getting some tips as I'm pretty thick when it comes to TOK.

Hi WK93,

You shouldn't really let your teacher drag you into writing particular things or using particular examples; it's your essay! What you need, in my opinion, is to understand the knowledge issue better. That way you can uses examples you choose and be comfortable in using them in your essay. "It is possible to attain knowledge despite problems of bias and selection" = 'There may be limitations to our ways of knowing. However, it is possible to gain knowledge despite these limitations.' In this case, the particular limitations are 'bias and selection' and the question demands the use of History and another AoK(s) to evaluate the claim. So by all means use the natural sciences as an example, but how will you use it? What particular example will you use from the natural sciences to show that either (a) it is not possible to attain knowledge (despite the problems of bias and selection) or (b) it is possible to attain knowledge (despite ...).

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i was thinking of using photoghraphy.... my teacher suggested the case of sharbat gula ( the green eyed afghan girl)how do i incorprate it into my essay? so confused!

Well just think of it as it relates to the question and how to fit it into your essay ought to become relatively clear. Do you get some knowledge from the photo/what knowledge do you get?And in what way is the photo a source of bias/selection?I would say yes you do (it's very compelling, no? And explain what it's demonstrating) and then think about it. Would the photo have had the same impact and given us the same level of knowledge, for instance, if she'd had standard brown eyes? And so on! Once you've worked out how it illustrates an aspect of the question, I'm sure you can think how to include it.I'd also perhaps look at calling it Art rather than Photography to make it clear which Area of Knowledge you're on about.

Hello Smiley,

I absolutely agree with Sandwich's approach. Similar to the situation above, don't let your teacher impose things on you. It may be a good example but in what context? From what I have read about the Sharbat Gula, you have to be specific about how you use this example. It certainly won't come under the AoK Art because the 'problems of bias and selection' do not apply to Art. I would suggest taking a History approach in this particular case i.e. using it as a historical source rather than a art piece. Have a look at this under 'photograph': Before you do use the example, it is important to define the problem and be clear on the argument you will use.

[smiley]

thank you so much sandwich and keel!!! i really appreciate your help

my teacher aqlso suggested that if we look at it from the perspective of art, then we could talk about who decides how much a painting is worth? for eg, the mona lisa is such a famous piece of art by leonardo da vinci. however, there are many replicas of the painting but no one values them as much as the original, even if it looks exactly alike.... so this is a case of bias and selection right?

[Keel]

thank you so much sandwich and keel!!! i really appreciate your help

my teacher aqlso suggested that if we look at it from the perspective of art, then we could talk about who decides how much a painting is worth? for eg, the mona lisa is such a famous piece of art by leonardo da vinci. however, there are many replicas of the painting but no one values them as much as the original, even if it looks exactly alike.... so this is a case of bias and selection right?

Hello Smiley,

I would be strongly tempted to disagree with your teacher's apprach for several reasons. Firstly, the bias is dependent on a person's knowledge that an original exists and their ability to tell the difference between a copy and the original. Secondly, that is only an example of bias, no selection is involved. (more importantly), it does not aid you in answering the question. What 'knowledge' is there to be obtained? You may argue that it shows human nature which values the origins of things, but it would make a pretty weak example.

What I believe the examiners are after is something similar to surveys (i.e selecting certian people creating bias in data), historical investigations (bias in historical sources, historians having to choose particular sources and valuing each source differently), the relability of a census (concealing facts, not everyone filling it in), trials in an experiment (random uncertainties, preference to a particualr method) ect.

[WK93]

Hi, I'm (my teacher) thinking of using physics as my AOK, and i was hoping on getting some tips as I'm pretty thick when it comes to TOK.

Hi WK93,

You shouldn't really let your teacher drag you into writing particular things or using particular examples; it's your essay! What you need, in my opinion, is to understand the knowledge issue better. That way you can uses examples you choose and be comfortable in using them in your essay. "It is possible to attain knowledge despite problems of bias and selection" = 'There may be limitations to our ways of knowing. However, it is possible to gain knowledge despite these limitations.' In this case, the particular limitations are 'bias and selection' and the question demands the use of History and another AoK(s) to evaluate the claim. So by all means use the natural sciences as an example, but how will you use it? What particular example will you use from the natural sciences to show that either (a) it is not possible to attain knowledge (despite the problems of bias and selection) or (b) it is possible to attain knowledge (despite ...).

Thanks you, i think i understand the question better now. But you got me wondering if i shouldn't switch natural science to human science and focus on economics.

You've already helped but you seem to know what your talking about, but what kind of sources are best to use articles or books, cause my teacher is being really vague about what to use and how to get it.