82 replies to this topic

[Access Denied]

i have never cheated and i was talking with my little brother who is not doing the IB but another type of exam in AUS. and he was telling me hw in his half-yearlys he saw his best friend with notes under the table.

He chose not to tell on him, but was annoyed when his friend got close to full marks and he didnt despite his efforts.



Question: If this happened in your IB exam

Would you tell?





keep in mind: they would lose their diploma

[Arrowhead]

I would never tell, whether the person cheating was a friend or not, I would not tell on him/her. I guess its because I did the IB at boarding school where there was a strong Us versus Them mentality with the teachers. We, as the students, strongly felt we had to support each other. But we would cheat all the time, that too in groups and in mass to stave the chances of getting caught.

We would have two Maths classes in the morning and one after lunch to break up all the groups of students doing Maths SL. If we ever had a test or quiz, I would have mine before lunch. And then during lunch I would meet up with my friends who had it after lunch and tell them all the questions and how to get past them. For my Maths Portfolios, one of my friends from my old school in India would email me hers and I would basically change the format and a word or two here and there and get my marks. In fact, for most of my SL exams, due to the time difference, our exams in Switzerland would start one hour after the exams in India ended. I would immediately call up my friends in India and ask them what came up in the paper. Then I would go tell everyone in my batch covertly about the exam questions and we would frantically revise those topic together just in case. We just gave ourselves a leg up, and when we're all cheating together, well it doesn't seem so bad anymore.

That's my opinion in any case,
Arrowhead.

[Drake Glau]

In fact, for most of my SL exams, due to the time difference, our exams in Switzerland would start one hour after the exams in India ended. I would immediately call up my friends in India and ask them what came up in the paper. Then I would go tell everyone in my batch covertly about the exam questions and we would frantically revise those topic together just in case. We just gave ourselves a leg up, and when we're all cheating together, well it doesn't seem so bad anymore.

Still a 6

During the actual IB exams I would call them out. Simple reason for it too. If they are caught cheating later by any means, that immediately causes concern about the invigilator and if he/she is considered to not have done their job according to IB rules and all that jazz the entire IB class could lose authenticity...are you seeing where this is going?
I would call them out to save my own ass...

Edited by Drake Glau, Jul 19, 2011 - 07:00.

[Arrowhead]

Still a 6

Trust me mate, if you knew how badly I sucked at Maths, you would be shocked by me getting a 6. My teacher had wanted to predict me a 4 and I begged and pleaded for the sake of my Oxford application I needed a higher prediction and he relented provided I promised to work my butt off. Which I did...kind of. But a 6 in Maths, blessing from the heavens.

[Keel]

I would never tell, whether the person cheating was a friend or not, I would not tell on him/her. I guess its because I did the IB at boarding school where there was a strong Us versus Them mentality with the teachers. We, as the students, strongly felt we had to support each other. But we would cheat all the time, that too in groups and in mass to stave the chances of getting caught.

We would have two Maths classes in the morning and one after lunch to break up all the groups of students doing Maths SL. If we ever had a test or quiz, I would have mine before lunch. And then during lunch I would meet up with my friends who had it after lunch and tell them all the questions and how to get past them. For my Maths Portfolios, one of my friends from my old school in India would email me hers and I would basically change the format and a word or two here and there and get my marks. In fact, for most of my SL exams, due to the time difference, our exams in Switzerland would start one hour after the exams in India ended. I would immediately call up my friends in India and ask them what came up in the paper. Then I would go tell everyone in my batch covertly about the exam questions and we would frantically revise those topic together just in case. We just gave ourselves a leg up, and when we're all cheating together, well it doesn't seem so bad anymore.

That's my opinion in any case,
Arrowhead.

Tell me, does getting 41 for your IB or 94.14% for you ICSE actually mean anything? For someone who likes to flash their academic records around and for some one studying criminal law I find it quite amusing how you both explicitly support and actively conduct malpractice. No sense of shame or regret either; in fact you go to the extent to try to justify your actions.

[Arrowhead]

Tell me, does getting 41 for your IB or 94.14% for you ICSE actually mean anything? For someone who likes to flash their academic records around and for some one studying criminal law I find it quite amusing how you both explicitly support and actively conduct malpractice. No sense of shame or regret either; in fact you go to the extent to try to justify your actions.

Calm down mate, yeah I've done some stuff in the past I'm not particularly proud of, but what's done is done. It was more in the heat of the moment and without thinking of the consequences of my actions at the time. Looking back I find it extremely lucky that we didn't get caught doing half the stuff we would do. I'm not saying it was right, not by any means, but it happened and we did it. While I feel that trying to get IB paper beforehand and such was extreme and thoroughly unnecessary, that I do regret and if I could go back, I wouldn't do it. But insofar as helping my friends by giving them the answers to school quizzes and tests are concerned, I would do it again. I know some would say that that's doing a disservice to them because "when will they learn for themselves?" But these were genuinely smart people who were bogged down by other things at the time and couldn't find the time to study for the test. We all need a little help and support from time to time, even if its not the most honest thing to do.

[Sandwich]

Tell on them for sure. School ground honour is ridiculous. By the time you get to IB age, the idea of not dobbing in on your mates is completely redundant. Yes there are things you wouldn't report them for, but I'd feel like the world's biggest idiot if I did badly in my IB exams on the back of everybody else doing very well (consequent to cheating) and didn't get my place at Uni. "Well at least I let my classmates cheat, even if I got screwed over" would hardly be a consoling statement.

Cheating and covering other people's backs is okay for school work - as you said, it's the pupils versus the teachers and that's fine. Copy each other's homework, look at each other's papers in in-class tests, whatever. People who don't do that are missing a trick. However it is categorically NOT okay for serious formal external examinations, such as IB exams. Anything which seriously, genuinely matters, it is absolutely not right or even forgivable to cheat.

If they lose their Diploma it's their own bloody fault for trying to cheat. It's not an individual decision - if they cheat, they make you look bad for having less knowledge than them. I'm not going to be the lowly stone on which they step to get their leg-up in life, that's not a role I ever intend to fill, and I think it's disgusting that people in this thread claim to have done so for formal IB exams. It's a shame nobody spotted you cheating, to be perfectly honest. Being bad at Maths means you should work your socks off to get better at Maths, it in no way WHATSOEVER justifies cheating. I worked my brain into sludge turning a 4 in Maths to a 6, it pisses me off no end to think that somebody else thought it was fine (and got away with) to cheat their way through what I had to work very, very hard to earn.

Despicable, and moreover immature. It's people's future lives in terms of getting University places that we're talking about, and if you think that schoolground politics and not telling because it's "us versus the teachers" trumps that, your mentality is still stuck in schoolkid land. The moment those exams finish you're not a schoolkid any more, and helping people cheat for classmate kudos is plain old dim. They're not going to come back in 20 years times and give you a pat on the head for it. For formal exams, I couldn't respect anybody who chose to cheat enough to want to help them out. They're doing you a disservice to get themselves ahead, it's not people clubbing together 'us' against 'them' because the 'us' in that equation consists of somebody claiming to be your friend by metaphorically ****ting on your head.

Hmph, this kind of thing really winds me up. The IBO are idiots for not introducing more timezones or making people sit in at the end of exams until everybody taking them has finished, and I think it's a shame they can't retrospectively take diplomas away from people saying that they cheated to get them. We used to have to sit in late in exams for GCSEs, don't see why the IB gives people a free-for-all on information if you're in the right timezone and have a complete mug somewhere else using their half a brain cell to give you information so you can cheerily screw them over under the false sign of solidarity.

[Daedalus]

Don't tell on them, for god's sake. Their IB results (one persons!) will not affect yours; and it's not like an either-they-get-into-uni-or-i-do situation. It's so much more important to have sustaining relationships with people your age than to force everybody around you to conform to your own ethical standards. Just like it's not advisable to rag on a smoker if you don't smoke, or a Muslim if they don't drink, you don't tell on a cheater. That's not about Us v Them or anything like that, it's about being a normal, friendly human being.

That said I wouldn't cheat for IB, and taking advantages like that to get your leg up strikes me as pretty sick. If you do it in your entire grade, that's even sicker. Get your life sorted out.

PS - One kid in my grade plagiarized and didn't get his diploma, didn't take his exams, didn't even graduate. I don't condone his action, but the consequences were disproportionate, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[White94]

I think it would depend on whether it was an official examination or not. If I caught someone cheating in the official IB exams next May then I think I would tell someone. Imagine the frustration of seeing someone cheat in their exams when you didn't and then the cheater gets more points in the IB for work they didn't necessarily do. I'm just not sure it's right to let one person work their ass off and get say like 32 and then let someone else cheat and get 34. For some people those points are the difference between first choice and second choice for university. You don't enter the IB with the frame of mind of cheating.
But that's my opinion.

[genepeer]

I think it's very hypocritical to tell on someone on one occasion and not tell in another. If you're going to tell on someone, then it shouldn't matter whether or not it's an official exam. Your predicted grades aren't based on the official grades; did you know that they can be the difference between one person being picked over another? So why not tell on people in normal exams too? Telling on others is simply a matter of principles; principles shouldn't have compromises.

[azulverde:)]

I would tell cause if IB found out not only would they not get their diploma but you would also loose it. They do not care if it was not you who was cheating, you did not report it so technically you would be helping that student cheat.

[Daedalus]

I think it's very hypocritical to tell on someone on one occasion and not tell in another. If you're going to tell on someone, then it shouldn't matter whether or not it's an official exam. Your predicted grades aren't based on the official grades; did you know that they can be the difference between one person being picked over another? So why not tell on people in normal exams too? Telling on others is simply a matter of principles; principles shouldn't have compromises.

Exactly. That's why I would never tell on anyone who was cheating, regardless of the circumstances.

People aren't thinking this through. The ethical decision comes from extending your decision in some circumstances to all of them. If you would tell on anyone during their IB exams, you should always tell on anyone. If you would not, on the other hand, tell on your best friend if they were cheating in their final IB exams (and let's face it -- who would?), you should never tell on anyone.

The point is, the consequences of you squealing are clearly worse for the person in question than whatever loss of utility you sustain from letting it go. It's just not a student's place to tell on another student, no matter what.

[White94]

But a student who is cheating can take a university place from a hard-working honest student. That doesn't seem right. I agree with the "tell on one person, tell on them all", that I will accept. However, if the teachers don't notice, then it becomes to the students place. Especially if the cheating can take something away from another honest student.
But it is again, just my opinion, others have every right to see it differently.

[lilianna009]

I was actually wondering...OK, IB exams is quite a big thing and it's risky but is it so weird in your countries that ppl cheat on some tests, small tests during the school year? Cause here, well, it's quite common...I mean, it's nothing weird. And if he catches you, the teacher gives, at the most, the lowest grade, nothing more.
Small cribs, phones, group-work .

And as to the question - I wouldn't tell. It's no of my business. If one tells, he must be some nerdy-jealous arse. Why care?

[sarahlouise]

If I saw somebody cheating in my IB exam, I would tell on them without a doubt.

[d3athlig3r]

Well, this is an ethical dilemma!

I can't imagine myself reporting any of my classmates cause' we're such a small class and thus so close.

I doubt any would do it. But since its a hypothetical case...hmm...

I think I would. I mean if you consider it, either way there's a slight feeling of guilt, but the guilt of not telling would be greater.

I would hate myself If I got good grades through cheating, I mean imagine living with that for the rest of your life...

[ocfx]

Hmmmm... Well this is an intersting one, but as stated by Daedulus it's a question of principle and your personal ethical standards. Of course I think that cheating in any exam is unacceptable in the respect that it gives the person a possible unfair advantage, but I would just let it go for several reasons. First, it's very unlikely that cheating can work out in anycase at least in official IB exams if everything goes par regulation. That's up to the invigilators and your coordinator, but I really don't think it would have been possible at my school without getting caught. That is, it was abundantly clear that possibilities were non-existent given the checks both before entering the exam room and within the exam room, assigned seating which would change from paper to paper, as well as invigilators sitting in front and behind you. The only thing that can really happen is what was described by Arrowhead, but that provides a very marginal advantage 1-2 hours is not a lot of time to prepare or go through some material. Memory isn't a thing that works just instantly it needs to be processed and this processing can continue during your exam and actually negatively affect your performance

Second, if someone actually managed to bring unauthorised material into the exam room and use it without being caught, the chances are the material is either not useful at all or only marginally useful in say one question. That is, unless you manage to bring your whole book, which would mean something is seriously wrong. It's also very difficult to continue this in say all three papers for a subject, which makes possible effects even more marginal.

Third, a cheatsheet (in the unlikely event that you can use one) obviously takes time to use and that's time you don't have so you end up with an answer to the questions you couldn't have answered otherwise, but may not have time to answer all the questions that are easier to you.

Basically to sum it up cheating isn't going to work in exams and doesn't work in IB exams so you shouldn't use it. Also from a social standpoint why would I tell on someone that has cheated when it has no actual bearing on me it just makes for a lot of hatred and permanently sore relations to your peers. Furthermore, I support what Daedulus said about ethical standards in relation to regular informal exams vs. formal exams thinking otherwise to me seems hypocritical. If you want to hold up a grudge against someone who cheated and got one more point then you then go ahead, but hard work can also get you the same result. To me it's enough to know I worked every IA, essay, and exam for the IB diploma without a second of dishonesty, plagiarism or cheating and I achieved the best grades I could given the circumstances (including procrastination ). That is to say, your grades are up to you

Edited by ocfx, Jul 21, 2011 - 10:14.

[Desy Glau]

tell on them. it's a malpractice. everybody MUST obey the rules and if they don't, they MUST be punished. I really really hate people who know that they shouldn't be doing something but still did it!! if everybody in the world were to cheat then everybody would have been able to get IB45s.

[timtamboy63]

I wouldn't tell. Some things are more important than scores.
I don't believe it's right, but you need to recognize that people have different moral standards. A serial killer will not identify himself as a criminal, and the cheater won't think what he's doing is wrong. So who are you to say that what he's doing is wrong? Let him do it, and he'll suffer the consequences later on.

[Desy Glau]

but if your friends (who didn't study much) cheat and get a higher mark than you (who put in the effort to study hard), don't you think this is unfair?? and what if they got a 7? you know how the mark boundaries are deduced, right? what if this made you get a high 6 on the border line? it's unfair! if my friends were to cheat, not get caught and get IB7 then I would do it too -- everybody must, to make it fair.