12 replies to this topic

[Steven Su]

What do you think about this bill?
http://en.wikipedia....line_Piracy_Act

[Ishaan]

I highly oppose that bill.

Its a form of censorship and censoring the internet is one of the most dangerous things.

Read more here: http://lifehacker.co...e-your-internet

Do something about it!

http://americancensorship.org/

[Arrowhead]

You might be surprised by this, but this bill is essentially codifying what has already been declared common law by the US Supreme Court. Just look at the decisions in Napster and Grokster. Furthermore, the US Act is relatively mild and freedom-friendly when you consider it in comparison to the French three-strikes system or the UK's new and invasive Digital Economy Act 2010.

[christran]

SOPA is ridiculous and frightening. I don't know anyone who supports the bill, although I'm sure there are non-politicians and non-corporate figures who do. Still, it is these corporations that are paying and persuading politicians to pass SOPA. The basic idea of getting the American people to stop pirating is good in practice, but SOPA simply is not the way to do it. Corporations aren't wanting SOPA to pass because they want to stop pirating and protect artists, they want SOPA to pass so they can make more money. If SOPA was to pass, I am certain it would only benefit the 1%. Really, how is SOPA going to benefit the people?

SOPA is absurd and if you like the way you use the Internet now, I urge you to call your representatives before it is too late.

[Steven Su]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
You have to remember that these people who are trying to pass the bill are like ancient and know little about today's technology and ate still trying to regulate it.

http://www.washingto...D3yO_story.html

There is no way to stop piracy, so let's embrace it

[Jar Jar D'oh!]

That bill is my toilet paper! Ugh!

[Bad Boys of Boston]

Either way it's gonna end up with more piracy. The more you try to prevent something, the more people will try to do it.

[Positron]

Watch that video and draw your own conclusions. If SOPA goes through, anyone could take down banks, news sites, Facebook, Google, YouTube etc. very easily without any risk of punisment.

Edited by Klaus.A, Feb 05, 2012 - 14:09.

[citizenoftheuniverse]

I´m annoyed that people are just posting links like "Read this, see what it makes you think about SOPA!!" People are just opposing SOPA, but can´t make any decent arguments themselves!!! If you write "Read this link!!!1!" to your representative or whatever, they are not gonna listen to you cuz you can´t even form your own arguments!!! Nobody on this forum has said anything that isn´t the most obvious thing ever if you have ever read anything about SOPA. However, talking about SOPA is just irrelevant now, did you even know that the US and Japan have already signed ACTA like three months ago?! (http://uk.reuters.co...E79018620111001)

People are just talking about SOPA because it is popular, but if they really cared about our online rights ACTA should be opposed too, and it is the greater threat! SOPA has already in my opinion lost. After the Google and Wikipedia blackouts, many senators stopped their support of the bill. Voting for the bill has already been postponed by both the US senate and congress. (http://topics.nytime...html?scp=1-spot)

Also, for example Megaupload was taken down without SOPA or PIPA even passing. This means that the US either already has the right to do what SOPA and PIPA propose, OR they don't have the legal right, but they are gonna do it anyway!

Edited by citizenoftheuniverse, Feb 06, 2012 - 04:22.

[Positron]

citizenoftheuniverse, on Feb 06, 2012 - 04:20, said:

I´m annoyed that people are just posting links like "Read this, see what it makes you think about SOPA!!" People are just opposing SOPA, but can´t make any decent arguments themselves!!! If you write "Read this link!!!1!" to your representative or whatever, they are not gonna listen to you cuz you can´t even form your own arguments!!! Nobody on this forum has said anything that isn´t the most obvious thing ever if you have ever read anything about SOPA. However, talking about SOPA is just irrelevant now, did you even know that the US and Japan have already signed ACTA like three months ago?! (http://uk.reuters.co...E79018620111001)

People are just talking about SOPA because it is popular, but if they really cared about our online rights ACTA should be opposed too, and it is the greater threat! SOPA has already in my opinion lost. After the Google and Wikipedia blackouts, many senators stopped their support of the bill. Voting for the bill has already been postponed by both the US senate and congress. (http://topics.nytime...html?scp=1-spot)

Also, for example Megaupload was taken down without SOPA or PIPA even passing. This means that the US either already has the right to do what SOPA and PIPA propose, OR they don't have the legal right, but they are gonna do it anyway!

You didn't get the point. I have nothing against a law that gives authorities tools to fight piracy/other illegal activity. But the problem is that SOPA goes further. A lot further.  If you had actually watched the video, you would have understood this. I could take down a bank by posting a link here that could be used for donating money. Then if someone claimed that there is material on this site that infringes their IP, authorities could take down the bank because it's "facilitating" illegal activity. Or if I wanted to take down Facebook I would just upload some material there which I don't own. Google could be taken down if they don't start to filter search results.  Do you get the picture? People are not opposing the bill because it's trying to stop piracy, but because it is seen as a step towards censorship.

What you said about ACTA is true, and I agree with you, but this topic was specifically about SOPA, not ACTA.

[citizenoftheuniverse]

Klaus.A, on Feb 06, 2012 - 13:56, said:

citizenoftheuniverse, on Feb 06, 2012 - 04:20, said:

I´m annoyed that people are just posting links like "Read this, see what it makes you think about SOPA!!" People are just opposing SOPA, but can´t make any decent arguments themselves!!! If you write "Read this link!!!1!" to your representative or whatever, they are not gonna listen to you cuz you can´t even form your own arguments!!! Nobody on this forum has said anything that isn´t the most obvious thing ever if you have ever read anything about SOPA. However, talking about SOPA is just irrelevant now, did you even know that the US and Japan have already signed ACTA like three months ago?! (http://uk.reuters.co...E79018620111001)

People are just talking about SOPA because it is popular, but if they really cared about our online rights ACTA should be opposed too, and it is the greater threat! SOPA has already in my opinion lost. After the Google and Wikipedia blackouts, many senators stopped their support of the bill. Voting for the bill has already been postponed by both the US senate and congress. (http://topics.nytime...html?scp=1-spot)

Also, for example Megaupload was taken down without SOPA or PIPA even passing. This means that the US either already has the right to do what SOPA and PIPA propose, OR they don't have the legal right, but they are gonna do it anyway!

You didn't get the point. I have nothing against a law that gives authorities tools to fight piracy/other illegal activity. But the problem is that SOPA goes further. A lot further.  If you had actually watched the video, you would have understood this. I could take down a bank by posting a link here that could be used for donating money. Then if someone claimed that there is material on this site that infringes their IP, authorities could take down the bank because it's "facilitating" illegal activity. Or if I wanted to take down Facebook I would just upload some material there which I don't own. Google could be taken down if they don't start to filter search results.  Do you get the picture? People are not opposing the bill because it's trying to stop piracy, but because it is seen as a step towards censorship.

What you said about ACTA is true, and I agree with you, but this topic was specifically about SOPA, not ACTA.

YOU are the one who dosen´t get the point!! I never said I support SOPA!!! I DONT!! I was just annoyed with the forum...I also never said I even support authorities fighting illegal activity!!! I don´t know where you pulled that, since I never even implied it in my post! "If you had actually watched the video, you would have understood this" I KNOW WHAT SOPA IS ABOUT! I had to do a huge paper on it, ok? I get that it´s bad, I never said it´s not. I was just complaining that people where focusing on it when ACTA was a much bigger issue and people cannot form good arguments.

This is what my post said summarised:
-people need to make own arguments, not link to stuff.
-people do not actually know about what is going on with SOPA, just jump on bandwagon
-the US does not need to pass SOPA to shut down websites.

This is what Klaus.A thought I said:
-I support governments preventing piracy (wtf)
-SOPA isn´t bad
-I don´t understand that SOPA causes censorship

Sä et lukenu mitä mää kirjotin ollenkaa

Edited by citizenoftheuniverse, Feb 06, 2012 - 20:56.

[Daniel Inchan Jung]

To be facetious, I find that SOPA is very similar to the Chinese "Great Firewall" in the sense that it has to do with uploads. Heck even a fan-made picture or video (amvs for example) could get you prison time.
Not to mention Anonymous will and have in the past hacked into and attacked government officials' personal webpages, government websites, systems, etc.

[Positron]

citizenoftheuniverse, on Feb 06, 2012 - 20:54, said:

Klaus.A, on Feb 06, 2012 - 13:56, said:

citizenoftheuniverse, on Feb 06, 2012 - 04:20, said:

I´m annoyed that people are just posting links like "Read this, see what it makes you think about SOPA!!" People are just opposing SOPA, but can´t make any decent arguments themselves!!! If you write "Read this link!!!1!" to your representative or whatever, they are not gonna listen to you cuz you can´t even form your own arguments!!! Nobody on this forum has said anything that isn´t the most obvious thing ever if you have ever read anything about SOPA. However, talking about SOPA is just irrelevant now, did you even know that the US and Japan have already signed ACTA like three months ago?! (http://uk.reuters.co...E79018620111001)

People are just talking about SOPA because it is popular, but if they really cared about our online rights ACTA should be opposed too, and it is the greater threat! SOPA has already in my opinion lost. After the Google and Wikipedia blackouts, many senators stopped their support of the bill. Voting for the bill has already been postponed by both the US senate and congress. (http://topics.nytime...html?scp=1-spot)

Also, for example Megaupload was taken down without SOPA or PIPA even passing. This means that the US either already has the right to do what SOPA and PIPA propose, OR they don't have the legal right, but they are gonna do it anyway!

You didn't get the point. I have nothing against a law that gives authorities tools to fight piracy/other illegal activity. But the problem is that SOPA goes further. A lot further.  If you had actually watched the video, you would have understood this. I could take down a bank by posting a link here that could be used for donating money. Then if someone claimed that there is material on this site that infringes their IP, authorities could take down the bank because it's "facilitating" illegal activity. Or if I wanted to take down Facebook I would just upload some material there which I don't own. Google could be taken down if they don't start to filter search results.  Do you get the picture? People are not opposing the bill because it's trying to stop piracy, but because it is seen as a step towards censorship.

What you said about ACTA is true, and I agree with you, but this topic was specifically about SOPA, not ACTA.

YOU are the one who dosen´t get the point!! I never said I support SOPA!!! I DONT!! I was just annoyed with the forum...I also never said I even support authorities fighting illegal activity!!! I don´t know where you pulled that, since I never even implied it in my post! "If you had actually watched the video, you would have understood this" I KNOW WHAT SOPA IS ABOUT! I had to do a huge paper on it, ok? I get that it´s bad, I never said it´s not. I was just complaining that people where focusing on it when ACTA was a much bigger issue and people cannot form good arguments.

This is what my post said summarised:
-people need to make own arguments, not link to stuff.
-people do not actually know about what is going on with SOPA, just jump on bandwagon
-the US does not need to pass SOPA to shut down websites.

This is what Klaus.A thought I said:
-I support governments preventing piracy (wtf)
-SOPA isn´t bad
-I don´t understand that SOPA causes censorship

Sä et lukenu mitä mää kirjotin ollenkaa

That's partly true. BUT my response was a response to your statement that SOPA wouldn't do anything new since "Megaupload was already taken down". I know, should've only quoted the part where you said that and not your whole text. Sorry, my bad.

But I do think that: "People are just opposing SOPA, but can´t make any decent arguments themselves", implies that you are supporting the bill. That's why I wanted to clear out that I do not have anything against the aim of the bill, only the way it's been worded. I never said, or implied, in any way, anything about your opinions on the matter.

And I did  understand your point of making own arguments, that's why I reposted with examples of the situations that I was talking about. But I don't see any reason why I couldn't ask people to make up their own minds, it's not my job to tell others what to think. And anyways the video explained what SOPA is about. I think we both agree that to have any sort of reasonable discussion we need to know the facts.

So I just want to say that I did understand your point, and agree with you on that, but my response was response only to a part of your text, not to the whole text. And honestly I really don't want to get into an pointless argument.

Kyl mä sen luin ja ymmärsinkin, suurimmalta osalta olin jopa samaa mieltä, mutta se mitä mä kommentoin liittyi vain osaan sun tekstistä, ei kokonaisuuteen. Tästä on ihan turha väitellä, sillä se väittely perustuis lähinnä väärin ymmärretylle kommentille, mikä ei ole kovinkaan järkevää.

Edited by Positron, Feb 09, 2012 - 19:34.