North Korea scraps all peace treaties with South Korea and threatens the US with a nuclear attack

[alefal]

Those incidents are hardly instances of guerrilla warfare, they were espionage. Different things. By guerrilla combat I meant the type of tactics used by the CCP during the Chinese Civil War and 2nd Sino-Japanese War, in open warfare rather than isolated incidents like the ones you stated. By your own logic, that would classify the CIA as guerrilla militants rather than spies for their various attempts on Castro's life - not open combat, but small and subversive attacks? If you agree with that then I suppose we have to agree to disagree.

Please explain to me how those instances can be defined as espionage? The bombing of the Korean Air Flight 858 was admittedly executed by North Korean spies, but cannot be said to be more than sabotage, which is a key aspect of guerrilla warfare. The sinking of Cheonan was an instance of ambush with the element of surprise, another key aspect of that kind of warfare. The aim of these two events, as far as I know, was not to obtain secret or classified information, which is the central aspect of espionage.

I admit that you're right that the term is more often used in situations were the term 'war' in itself can be used, but then again, the Korean War is technically still on-going and can still be defined as a war.

As for the CIA assassination attempts you're mentioning: I would not claim that CIA are guerrilla militants. But, that does not imply that they cannot use elements from that kind of warfare.

... guerrilla warfare relies extremely heavily not just on landscape, but on civilian support...

If this was meant for me - I completely agree, and I never said that the NK would be successful in adapting guerrilla warfare either. The only thing I questioned was whether or not the North Korean government had used guerrilla warfare previously, or at least aspects of it (I did not manage to make it clear in my previous post that I was thinking of some of the aspects of guerrilla warfare, not necessarily complete guerrilla warfare similar to the guerrilla movements in Latin America, for instance). You have yet to convince me that the events I mentioned can be classified as espionage, though.

... civilian support - something which Kim Jong Un is not flying high on at the moment, if you're following the editorials from journalists in North Korea at the moment.

Although I did not explicitly comment on this earlier in this thread (I believe, at least), that issue is discussed in one of the links I posted in my longer response to Sandwich.

Now, my point is - and the point I was making to Luka - the NKA would not opt for guerrilla tactics á la the Vietcong, CCP, or indeed the Taliban.

I agree with you fully on this assessment.

Edited May 4, 2013 by alefal

[braindead]

The definition of guerrilla warfare I'd apply, based on the Chinese tactics we studied in HL History, would be small-scale groups of combatants using more subtle tactics such as camouflage, pre-emptive adaptation of terrain and utilisation of local civilian support to perform unexpected, panic-inducing assaults not aimed at wiping out an enemy force, but rather scaring them into a partial or complete rout or retreat.

You rightly pointed out that sabotage is, indeed, an aspect of guerrilla tactics, logically understable considering the subversive nature of both aspects of fighting. However, without the main body of guerrilla tactics being applied (the physical engagement of troops), I wouldn't say that the North Korean instances of sabotage of South Korean military/civilian targets qualify as guerrilla tactics at all - would a cold war-esque conflict between two superpowers be considered a total war if both nations geared their economies towards militarisation, but did not have any open conflicts whatsoever? I wouldn't say so personally, perhaps this is something more open to debate than definable by fact.

[alefal]

The definition of guerrilla warfare I'd apply, based on the Chinese tactics we studied in HL History, would be small-scale groups of combatants using more subtle tactics such as camouflage, pre-emptive adaptation of terrain and utilisation of local civilian support to perform unexpected, panic-inducing assaults not aimed at wiping out an enemy force, but rather scaring them into a partial or complete rout or retreat.

You rightly pointed out that sabotage is, indeed, an aspect of guerrilla tactics, logically understable considering the subversive nature of both aspects of fighting. However, without the main body of guerrilla tactics being applied (the physical engagement of troops), I wouldn't say that the North Korean instances of sabotage of South Korean military/civilian targets qualify as guerrilla tactics at all - would a cold war-esque conflict between two superpowers be considered a total war if both nations geared their economies towards militarisation, but did not have any open conflicts whatsoever? I wouldn't say so personally, perhaps this is something more open to debate than definable by fact.

Well, I tried to make it clear that I meant aspects of guerrilla warfare, not necessarily guerrilla warfare as a whole. But, I acknowledge that my argumentation nonetheless is somewhat flawed on that very point (that's the consequence of not thinking your argumentation through before you post it, I suppose). However, I cannot see how you could call it espionage, as you claimed earlier?

As for your question - that would depend very much on the definitions used, though with my understanding of the terms, I would say no myself.

[braindead]

Maybe not quite espionage, but it was sabotage with the intent of harming the enemy state's ability to wage war, or to create fear, to some degree. I concede it isn't really anything like the theft of nuclear weapon plans or anything to that magnitude, but hopefully you can see where I was coming from in that the intention of those acts you listed was similar to the intents often seen in true espionage missions.

[alefal]

I do see where you're coming from, but the intent of all the espionage missions I know of, is to gather classified information through theft or other, often illegal, means without being noticed, not to increase fear. I would say that the intention was, as you pointed out, to create fear. I would argue that they did not attempt to impede South Korea's ability to wage war in any of the cases I mentioned, but that's another discussion entirely. I would actually, rather than to call it espionage missions or guerrilla warfare, call it terrorism. Terrorism is used to establish fear and possibly sway public opinion, espionage is used to secretly improve your awareness of your enemy's activities without their consent and knowledge.

[Black Bird Lockheed]

No news of North Korea now. They were just crying war because they wanted attention and they got the attention. The only thing that I was hoping that North Korea must lose the war because the people are suffering there terribly and they are just under the rule of the world's most worst dictator after Robert Mugabe. Though I am not in really in favor of war but some country must teach north korea a such a nice lesson that they end the cruel suppression of the people.

[Luka Petrovic]

Come on guys use your TOK knowledge, how do you know North Korea is such a terrible place? (slightly sarcastic, but also somewhat seriously asking)
And teach them a lesson in what? A subjective ideal put out by countries that happen to be the most powerful in the world?

Edited May 9, 2013 by Luka Petrovic

[alefal]

No news of North Korea now. They were just crying war because they wanted attention and they got the attention. The only thing that I was hoping that North Korea must lose the war because the people are suffering there terribly and they are just under the rule of the world's most worst dictator after Robert Mugabe. Though I am not in really in favor of war but some country must teach north korea a such a nice lesson that they end the cruel suppression of the people.

Well, a war on the Korean peninsula would not only teach North Korea 'a lesson,' it would also lead to regional instability (that could potentially mean further deterioration of Sino-Japanese and possibly Sino-American relations), cause the deaths of many thousands in both North and South Korea, and devastate the South Korean economy. You need to realise that a war would probably do no good, and a gradual transformation of the regime is much more preferable. Such a war would not be over in a matter of days, mostly due to the topography of the Korean peninsula and massive military of North Korea (who, admittedly, are badly equipped and trained).

Come on guys use your TOK knowledge, how do you know North Korea is such a terrible place? (slightly sarcastic, but also somewhat seriously asking)

Hehe, I've wondered about that myself, actually, but I think we can be fairly certain that the situation in the country is not optimal. The Arduous March in 1994 was a reality, and the World Food Programme have people inside North Korea assessing the food situation in the nation (actually, there are quite a few organisations in North Korea attempting to improve the situation - for instance, Red Cross helped improve the access to clean water in the nation). According to their people, a third of the children suffer from chronic malnutrition. Due to the chronic food shortage in North Korea, which has more or less lasted since the Arduous March, the average North Korean person is 4-8 centimetres shorter than the South Korean counterpart.

As for the much-mentioned concentration camps - there are many witnesses. Shin Dong Hyuk was born in one. Many other refugees have at some stage been sent to these camps for shorter periods. The Hidden Gulag is a report on the concentration camps by the US Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, and contain a lot of witness accounts from some of the various camps. satellite images also show what appears to be large areas allocated to some kind of camps - most likely the concentration camps. As far as I am concerned, any nation feeling the need to have such camps have done something terribly wrong.

On the other hand - you can argue that it is propaganda. For instance, it was a US Committee who published that report, and North Korea regards the US as a bitter enemy. Though, the reports of the camps are not just limited to the US. In fact, many other, more neutral, sources have also reported about these camps.

[Luka Petrovic]

No news of North Korea now. They were just crying war because they wanted attention and they got the attention. The only thing that I was hoping that North Korea must lose the war because the people are suffering there terribly and they are just under the rule of the world's most worst dictator after Robert Mugabe. Though I am not in really in favor of war but some country must teach north korea a such a nice lesson that they end the cruel suppression of the people.

Well, a war on the Korean peninsula would not only teach North Korea 'a lesson,' it would also lead to regional instability (that could potentially mean further deterioration of Sino-Japanese and possibly Sino-American relations), cause the deaths of many thousands in both North and South Korea, and devastate the South Korean economy. You need to realise that a war would probably do no good, and a gradual transformation of the regime is much more preferable. Such a war would not be over in a matter of days, mostly due to the topography of the Korean peninsula and massive military of North Korea (who, admittedly, are badly equipped and trained).

>Come on guys use your TOK knowledge, how do you know North Korea is such a terrible place? (slightly sarcastic, but also somewhat seriously asking)

Hehe, I've wondered about that myself, actually, but I think we can be fairly certain that the situation in the country is not optimal. The Arduous March in 1994 was a reality, and the World Food Programme have people inside North Korea assessing the food situation in the nation (actually, there are quite a few organisations in North Korea attempting to improve the situation - for instance, Red Cross helped improve the access to clean water in the nation). According to their people, a third of the children suffer from chronic malnutrition. Due to the chronic food shortage in North Korea, which has more or less lasted since the Arduous March, the average North Korean person is 4-8 centimetres shorter than the South Korean counterpart.

As for the much-mentioned concentration camps - there are many witnesses. Shin Dong Hyuk was born in one. Many other refugees have at some stage been sent to these camps for shorter periods. The Hidden Gulag is a report on the concentration camps by the US Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, and contain a lot of witness accounts from some of the various camps. satellite images also show what appears to be large areas allocated to some kind of camps - most likely the concentration camps. As far as I am concerned, any nation feeling the need to have such camps have done something terribly wrong.

On the other hand - you can argue that it is propaganda. For instance, it was a US Committee who published that report, and North Korea regards the US as a bitter enemy. Though, the reports of the camps are not just limited to the US. In fact, many other, more neutral, sources have also reported about these camps.

We also compare North korea to ourselves. I'm not too familiar with the history of pre-war Korea but I think the North has always been poorer than the south.

I think in this case north Korea would have been better off being with South Korea benefitting from being unified with the more developed counterpart.

that being said this isn't always true. Liek when people criticize the castro regime in Cuba they compare living conditions in cuba with that of the United States. Its literally comparing corn to sugar cane. Try looking at the living standard of the average citizen of jamaica, haiti or the DR. then you will see its relative advantage...

[braindead]

It was only after World War II that Korea was split into the North and South, it's a common (and incorrect) assumption that Korea's been divided for a very long time. Before the split, there is no evidence (to my knowledge, anyway) of any economic or agricultural imparity between the North and South. However, I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that North Korea and South Korea should never have become separate entities - I sincerely doubt the grave issues surrounding the North would have arisen had the allies just left well alone. Even if the whole of the Korean peninsula had been left for Soviet governance, and resulted in a state of relative poverty (even then I doubt it'd be as bad as it is now, thanks to the North's devotion of resources to the military at the cost of the people), at least there would not be the social issues that have only been exacerbated over time on the peninsula.

[alefal]

No news of North Korea now. They were just crying war because they wanted attention and they got the attention. The only thing that I was hoping that North Korea must lose the war because the people are suffering there terribly and they are just under the rule of the world's most worst dictator after Robert Mugabe. Though I am not in really in favor of war but some country must teach north korea a such a nice lesson that they end the cruel suppression of the people.

Well, a war on the Korean peninsula would not only teach North Korea 'a lesson,' it would also lead to regional instability (that could potentially mean further deterioration of Sino-Japanese and possibly Sino-American relations), cause the deaths of many thousands in both North and South Korea, and devastate the South Korean economy. You need to realise that a war would probably do no good, and a gradual transformation of the regime is much more preferable. Such a war would not be over in a matter of days, mostly due to the topography of the Korean peninsula and massive military of North Korea (who, admittedly, are badly equipped and trained).

>Come on guys use your TOK knowledge, how do you know North Korea is such a terrible place? (slightly sarcastic, but also somewhat seriously a

sking)

Hehe, I've wondered about that myself, actually, but I think we can be fairly certain that the situation in the country is not optimal. The Arduous March in 1994 was a reality, and the World Food Programme have people inside North Korea assessing the food situation in the nation (actually, there are quite a few organisations in North Korea attempting to improve the situation - for instance, Red Cross helped improve the access to clean water in the nation). According to their people, a third of the children suffer from chronic malnutrition. Due to the chronic food shortage in North Korea, which has more or less lasted since the Arduous March, the average North Korean person is 4-8 centimetres shorter than the South Korean counterpart.

As for the much-mentioned concentration camps - there are many witnesses. Shin Dong Hyuk was born in one. Many other refugees have at some stage been sent to these camps for shorter periods. The Hidden Gulag is a report on the concentration camps by the US Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, and contain a lot of witness accounts from some of the various camps. satellite images also show what appears to be large areas allocated to some kind of camps - most likely the concentration camps. As far as I am concerned, any nation feeling the need to have such camps have done something terribly wrong.

On the other hand - you can argue that it is propaganda. For instance, it was a US Committee who published that report, and North Korea regards the US as a bitter enemy. Though, the reports of the camps are not just limited to the US. In fact, many other, more neutral, sources have also reported about these camps.

We also compare North korea to ourselves. I'm not too familiar with the history of pre-war Korea but I think the North has always been poorer than the south.

I think in this case north Korea would have been better off being with South Korea benefitting from being unified with the more developed counterpart.

that being said this isn't always true. Liek when people criticize the castro regime in Cuba they compare living conditions in cuba with that of the United States. Its literally comparing corn to sugar cane. Try looking at the living standard of the average citizen of jamaica, haiti or the DR. then you will see its relative advantage...

Actually, I think the economies of the two Koreas were pretty much the same before the Korean War. Before the end of WW2, they were colonised by Japan, and prior to 1910, they were a unified country. However, it is not true that North Korea has always been poorer than South Korea. North Korea was actually much richer in the 1960s and early 70s. After that, well, things started to collapse in North Korea, and the South Korean economy started to develop rapidly.

Yeah, it's definitely true that we often compare what we hear about the North Korean life to our current life. That's why the colonialists found the African and Latin American life inferior to their own, for instance. They thought they were much better off, failing to realise the difference in values, lifestyle and all that.

[Black Bird Lockheed]

No news of North Korea now. They were just crying war because they wanted attention and they got the attention. The only thing that I was hoping that North Korea must lose the war because the people are suffering there terribly and they are just under the rule of the world's most worst dictator after Robert Mugabe. Though I am not in really in favor of war but some country must teach north korea a such a nice lesson that they end the cruel suppression of the people.

Well, a war on the Korean peninsula would not only teach North Korea 'a lesson,' it would also lead to regional instability (that could potentially mean further deterioration of Sino-Japanese and possibly Sino-American relations), cause the deaths of many thousands in both North and South Korea, and devastate the South Korean economy. You need to realise that a war would probably do no good, and a gradual transformation of the regime is much more preferable. Such a war would not be over in a matter of days, mostly due to the topography of the Korean peninsula and massive military of North Korea (who, admittedly, are badly equipped and trained).

>Come on guys use your TOK knowledge, how do you know North Korea is such a terrible place? (slightly sarcastic, but also somewhat seriously a

sking)

Hehe, I've wondered about that myself, actually, but I think we can be fairly certain that the situation in the country is not optimal. The Arduous March in 1994 was a reality, and the World Food Programme have people inside North Korea assessing the food situation in the nation (actually, there are quite a few organisations in North Korea attempting to improve the situation - for instance, Red Cross helped improve the access to clean water in the nation). According to their people, a third of the children suffer from chronic malnutrition. Due to the chronic food shortage in North Korea, which has more or less lasted since the Arduous March, the average North Korean person is 4-8 centimetres shorter than the South Korean counterpart.

As for the much-mentioned concentration camps - there are many witnesses. Shin Dong Hyuk was born in one. Many other refugees have at some stage been sent to these camps for shorter periods. The Hidden Gulag is a report on the concentration camps by the US Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, and contain a lot of witness accounts from some of the various camps. satellite images also show what appears to be large areas allocated to some kind of camps - most likely the concentration camps. As far as I am concerned, any nation feeling the need to have such camps have done something terribly wrong.

On the other hand - you can argue that it is propaganda. For instance, it was a US Committee who published that report, and North Korea regards the US as a bitter enemy. Though, the reports of the camps are not just limited to the US. In fact, many other, more neutral, sources have also reported about these camps.

We also compare North korea to ourselves. I'm not too familiar with the history of pre-war Korea but I think the North has always been poorer than the south.

I think in this case north Korea would have been better off being with South Korea benefitting from being unified with the more developed counterpart.

that being said this isn't always true. Liek when people criticize the castro regime in Cuba they compare living conditions in cuba with that of the United States. Its literally comparing corn to sugar cane. Try looking at the living standard of the average citizen of jamaica, haiti or the DR. then you will see its relative advantage...

Agreed war would have a bad impact on humanity. What all humans would cherish to have freedom and that is what citizens of North Korea are deprived of. So I think people would rather be ready to die rather than living like a life of a caged parrot.

[braindead]

I think you've made that statement without acknowledging fully the power of political indoctrination... I'd be willing to bet good money that, thanks to the personality cults of the Kims, coupled with the heavy state censorship and blocking of international communications, the majority of North Koreans are not aware that their lives are horrible, and simply believe their situations to be the same as the working-classes of other nations. If it were up to me, instead of a physical war I'd simply spend time attempting to infiltrate the North and spread images, information, news, anything about the outside world. Then I think the North Korean people would be prepared to stand up against their autocrat and do something about him. (Pretty impractical plan I know, but it'd be less morally questionable than nuking the whole peninsula like a trigger-happy kid on GTA IV.)

[Black Bird Lockheed]

I think you've made that statement without acknowledging fully the power of political indoctrination... I'd be willing to bet good money that, thanks to the personality cults of the Kims, coupled with the heavy state censorship and blocking of international communications, the majority of North Koreans are not aware that their lives are horrible, and simply believe their situations to be the same as the working-classes of other nations. If it were up to me, instead of a physical war I'd simply spend time attempting to infiltrate the North and spread images, information, news, anything about the outside world. Then I think the North Korean people would be prepared to stand up against their autocrat and do something about him. (Pretty impractical plan I know, but it'd be less morally questionable than nuking the whole peninsula like a trigger-happy kid on GTA IV.)

I hope you are aware of the fact that the citizens believe that Kim and his good for nothing family are their god. Even if the people are been made aware of this fact, they will still consider Kim as god. So if any outsiders interfere in this country then only the people will have some senses. Otherwise your idea is good but again Kim won't mind firing protesters.

[braindead]

I think you've made that statement without acknowledging fully the power of political indoctrination... I'd be willing to bet good money that, thanks to the personality cults of the Kims, coupled with the heavy state censorship and blocking of international communications, the majority of North Koreans are not aware that their lives are horrible, and simply believe their situations to be the same as the working-classes of other nations. If it were up to me, instead of a physical war I'd simply spend time attempting to infiltrate the North and spread images, information, news, anything about the outside world. Then I think the North Korean people would be prepared to stand up against their autocrat and do something about him. (Pretty impractical plan I know, but it'd be less morally questionable than nuking the whole peninsula like a trigger-happy kid on GTA IV.)

I hope you are aware of the fact that the citizens believe that Kim and his good for nothing family are their god. Even if the people are been made aware of this fact, they will still consider Kim as god. So if any outsiders interfere in this country then only the people will have some senses. Otherwise your idea is good but again Kim won't mind firing protesters.

I'm aware that the Kim cult of personality would stop such a plan from being practical, hence me referring to the plan as impractical! I'm just against the idea of nuclear warfare as a tool of coercion, let alone the actual use of them on any country. It's just like when a big kid comes up to a little kid in a playground and says, "do my HL Biology homework or I'll break your back". That applies to both the US and North Korea's treatment of nukes, as if it's no big deal to wave your willies around in a political penis-measurement contest to try and force the other to back down. Bloodshed would do no good for North Korea - yes, they'd have gotten rid of a backwards-leading autocratic scumbag, but at what cost? I doubt Japanese people look fondly on Harry Truman and his generation of Americans, and that sort of resentment would be recreated should North Korea be crushed militarily or with nuclear warfare.

[alefal]

I think you've made that statement without acknowledging fully the power of political indoctrination... I'd be willing to bet good money that, thanks to the personality cults of the Kims, coupled with the heavy state censorship and blocking of international communications, the majority of North Koreans are not aware that their lives are horrible, and simply believe their situations to be the same as the working-classes of other nations. If it were up to me, instead of a physical war I'd simply spend time attempting to infiltrate the North and spread images, information, news, anything about the outside world. Then I think the North Korean people would be prepared to stand up against their autocrat and do something about him. (Pretty impractical plan I know, but it'd be less morally questionable than nuking the whole peninsula like a trigger-happy kid on GTA IV.)

I agree with you completely, and I would actually go even further and say that the general population in North Korea believes that their living standard is world-class. I mean, they learn at school, in lectures and in the news that North Korea is the best place in the world, together with China.

Regarding the access to information in North Korea, I've read that the North Korean awareness of the world has been increasing steadily for a long time, mostly due to smuggling of music, South Korean dramas (usually on flash drives or other small, portable devices), mobile phones, etc. into North Korea. One would believe that these objects would be discovered, but apparently they do not. There are multiple reports made by organisations following the situation in North Korea about this, and they all conclude that this smuggling have changed the way North Koreans think about the outside world. This is of course more true on the Sino-North Korean border, but the smuggling has been a reality for so long that some people even more remote areas in North Korea have either seen or heard some foreign products. The art of removing the restrictions in the government-produced radios and TVs have also spread, though not as quickly as actual products.

According to Barbara Demick's book Nothing To Envy, which is fully based on witness accounts, foreign books which are prohibited in North Korea can be found in certain areas of Pyongyang.

The only problem is that you have one government spy per household, so any public opposition would be dealt with swiftly. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if there is some sort of organised resistance group in the country, nor would I be surprised if there has been attempts at demonstrations in various forms. We wouldn't hear about them anyway, because the North Korean government won't proclaim that 'hey, we got some people who oppose us in our own country.'

Today (or was it yesterday?), NKNews (one of the leading news agencies focusing on North Korea) reported that there was a traffic warden who was awarded the most prestigious prize in North Korea. Some experts believe it is because she somehow prevented an assassination attempt at either key governmental figures or Kim Jong-un himself.

EDIT: Loved the GTA reference, by the way

Edited May 10, 2013 by alefal

[braindead]

Yeah, while I agree that there's almost certainly some form of resistance - even Hitler, the "king" of progressive brainwashing of the masses to accept full autocracy had the Valkyrie plot - I'd be shocked if anything actually happened. I would think the fear of the North Korean gulags is the reason nothing's happened internally already, or at least, like you said, nothing we've heard about.

It does surprise me that foreign products are getting into the North, though, based on the overly severe constrictions on imports and immigration - again, though, I don't really believe it'd have any real catalytic effect, though this time because the severity of the Kims' indoctrination is probably to the extent that they could simply reject anything from foreign nations that contradicts that which they've seen since the day they were born. I know for sure that if somebody came up to me and showed me a video that proved beyond doubt that the moon is actually a space station, I'd just laugh and call it fake. In my opinion, something large with foreign influence has to occur in the North for there to be any meaningful change - whether a coup d'état or even someone assassinating the big man himself. Otherwise, generation after generation will simply succumb to this Kim, the next Kim, the Kim after... on and on. Most South Koreans actually sympathise with North Koreans, against popular assumption - it's the North Korean regime itself that is detested so widely, so I doubt the South will allow the constant progression of the extremity of brainwashing in North Korea without eventually being forced into some kind of action.

[alefal]

Yeah, I agree that the fear of the gulags do have a significant effect on the opposition.

Some of the smuggling happens through the migrating workforce, actually. There are quite a lot of North Koreans who work in China for a period (everything from a couple of weeks to multiple months) who bring back some new, prohibited items. If they are caught by the border patrol, they normally just bribe them. It's a win-win situation for both nations, actually. China gets super-cheap workforce free, and new capital comes into North Korea. The North Korean workers live like kings for quite a while, then they return to China to work some more. Now, this has probably changed drastically this year, as China have actually started to enforce (some) of the sanctions as agreed upon by the United Nations Security Council.

However, most of the reports I mentioned noticed a widespread, albeit small, change of attitudes in North Korea. For instance, despite of the strict hair length and hair style rules in North Korea, many of the women who were seen grieving right after Kim Jong Il's death had hair styles reminiscent of those seen in certain South Korean dramas, and officially prohibited by the government. Additionally, many defectors claim that it was radio transmissions from South Korea or foreign products that made them realise how bad the situation in North Korea really is, and caused them to defect.

I would be careful to claim that this availability of foreign goods will lead to a substantial change in the North Korean society any time soon, though, but one can hope that it will have favourable effects in the long term.

I'm familiar with the South Korean sentiments you describe. In my opinion, hating the whole North Korean people due to the government's misdeeds is just ignorant.