A senior was killed in palestine several hours ago

[Firas Hommos]

Why exactly is this school kid walking home from school dressed as a guerilla with his head covered and identity obscured??

Isreali people are killing Palestinians but Palestinians are also killing Israelis. Demanding international war of some kind is not exactly the path to peace - and that's a path which has by no means been neglected. The US, UK and multiple other countries have been trying to establish a peaceful 'two state' solution for countless years now. Only just recently they failed yet again with talks... but you know, you can lead a pair of horses to water but when they're hardline religious/'my people' politician horses, you can't make them drink. Neither side is particularly in the right or the wrong in terms of killing each other, bar some power differential, and neither is prepared to back down. I mean, which side do you suggest should be supported by the international community? Should we move ahead by starting a war with (and killing) Israelis or Palestinians, which is better, if we want to end this via intervention as you suggest?

With all due respect it's very naiive to post random un-traceable photos of people who may or may not be who they say they are and demand international war under the impression it will somehow reduce killing. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan for some excellent examples of international 'interventions' which have helped not one jot. They've stopped reporting all the bombs in Baghdad except for the big ones now as well. There are THAT many bombings and that many people dying every single day. I mean, would anybody re-propose the invasion of Iraq??? Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead - and also hundreds of international forces dead. Situation still not resolved.

The only people who can really resolve this situation without one side killing the other are the politicians at the top of each country. And when IB students are meant to be knowledgeable that includes questioning sources of information (I certainly question all of yours!) and looking at history. Violence has never really solved violence, and especially idealogical violence and ESPECIALLY religious violence, which is the most intractable sort. Again - look at Iraq. Split down religious lines and in some kind of civil war. I would venture to say that war strengthened divides rather than solving them.

hahahahah at the beginning don't dare comparing him to a guerrilla, this man is better than millions of people on this earth, and we respect him more than anything on earth. The evidence I have are my eyes, and I'm not asking you to believe me, you can come and see whats going on with your eyes. This guy was wearing this because there was a peaceful protest because yesterday was alnakba day, there was a video showing the moment he was killed, but it was deleted from internet, his name is "Nadeem Abu Nowara" if you want to try to find the video, but israel don't want anyone to see it so they deleted it, but you can watch the video in the comment above this, I think it shows what type of soldiers israeli soldiers are.

yes man we kill them HAHAHAHA we don't even have weapons, our only weapons are stones, while they are they have on of the strongest military in the world, i can't remember when was the last time an israeli was killed by a palestinian, I just can't, but in the last 5 years more than 5000 palestinians were killed and you can go and red surveys about this

Im not asking for anyone to intervene, Im not asking anyone to help because one day we will take our land back trust me

Edited May 16, 2014 by Firas Hommos

[Guest]

There is no justice in war. Don't even bother trying to get some sort of sympathy from us. Even though the Palestines are getting hammered, your continued biased attitude is making it very difficult for us to empathise with you. Your personal experience may win you points in TOK essays but not in real discussions. Get out of that victim mentality, suck it up and deal with it because nobody wins in war. Everyone loses.

[Firas Hommos]

HAHAHAHA and you think that I need your sympathy? you are totally wrong Palestinians are not waiting for help from any one we will fight till the end and we will WIN this war because every one here is willing to die right now for palestine .. and thank you we don't need help or sympathy from any one you don't know the feeling of being a proud palestinian not waiting for anyone to come and tell you sorry for your loss .. do you know who is his mother considered to be the luckiest here? the one that her child died defending palestine :D

Edited May 23, 2014 by TykeDragon

[XeoKnight]

HAHAHAHA and you think that I need your sympathy? you are totally wrong Palestinians are not waiting for help from any one we will fight till the end and we will WIN this war because every one here is willing to die right now for palestine .. and thank you we don't need help or sympathy from any one you don't know the feeling of being a proud palestinian not waiting for anyone to come and tell you sorry for your loss .. do you know who is his mother considered to be the luckiest here? the one that her child died defending palestine :D

Look. If you don't want sympathy, if you don't want help, what was the point of this thread? Your attitude seems arrogant and if I'm understanding your point right (which is hard as I don't unfortunately understand what you're saying the whole time) you're saying the mother is lucky that her child died defending Palestine. What kind of messed up mentality is that? A person died, we offer our condolences, and you mock us.

Israel and Palestine aren't the only areas of the world like this. DRC, Kenya, among others, are other countries with similar unreported problems. The world unfortunately just won't deal with it because it stretches on and on, and its people seem to not care for conflicts that last generations.

I saw this somewhere in the thread, and just as a note, the internet is controlled by no one. Not really. I could, for example, go on a rant on a blog somewhere denouncing the US government, threatening people with bombs and advocate extremist policies. I would probably not get arrested, but be on every watch list of the world. The NSA may monitor the internet, but they cannot 'edit' it or change what we see. News organizations in general can be biased because they are owned by the richest people on Earth who have agendas, not because the Government controls them. Admittedly, these rich people in general have huge influence in the government as well, so they may be related.

I hope you can see why not many people look at the situation in Palestine favorably. I'm sorry to say this, but while Israel may be occupying your land or whatnot, they received it through right of conquest. You won't be getting them out any time soon. They are also among the best armed military in the world. Countries are already trying to bring peaceful solutions but they aren't working. There is no way we are going to be going in here (speaking for the EU, that is) with a military. This forum would also be the worst to target concerning this; we're all IB students (mostly) and are concentrating on university studies and passing the IB, not world politics. At least, not during IB Examinations. Your tone doesn't help either.

[Firas Hommos]

if you don't care about this discussion no one told you to come and write a comment

I don't want to start a discussion with you because you seem ignorant, but I want to tell you that we will take our land back very soon.

And yes his mother is considered to be lucky and there are hundreds of thousands of palestinians that are willing to die now defending palestine including me

[Iabbymacbeth1996]

Reading this I must say that the initial post and most of the comments (again not all of them) seem biased to me. First of all theres no Israeli representation on here to defend their actions or argue for their side, and second of all if you are a Palestinian/Arab yourself--then off course you are going to defend the Arposted by ab side and make it sound the way you want to. Looking at the picture you posted which you claim was posted by the Israeli soldier, I can see that the credits of the bottom say - Instagram/ the electrical Intifada, which as far as I know from research Intifada is somehow related to the Palestinian side and NOT the Israeli one. Im not saying murder is justified but looking from a TOK point of view and after doing some research there is a couple of question I would like to ask you:

1. Who are we as humans to determine who is to die or to live?

2. What do you think about the missiles that are so frequently being sent to Israel from Arab nations/ Gaza strip? when it is known that most of these attacks were started by the Arab side and not the Israeli side?

3. What about all the innocent Israeli people that were killed after terror attacks from the Arab side? and Suicide attacks on buses, hospitals, restaurants, clubs, etc?

4. Israeli soldiers are obligated to serve, they are people just like you and just like anyone in this forum, they are kids who just graduated high school and serve the military not in order to kill innocent people but rather in order to protect their country, wouldn't you do the same thing? Im positive that if that boy was indeed killed there would be some reason for it(of course not a justifiable one----murder is not right!)

5. Looking at the map of the middle east, I see that Israel is just a tiny piece of land surrounded by Arab nations. How would you feel if you knew you were constantly threatened by other countries?

6. Again Im not siding with either side, but it could also be a palestinian shot that boy---we wouldn't know because we were not there!!

I think that if you decide to post something like this post on this forum, something that has completely NOTHING to do with IB and everything to do with BIAS and clear hatred towards Israel. I must say that after TOK and discussions we had both in history and psychology I would expect you---an IB student to be more open minded when you post things like this. I understand your biased position, but being open minded is not thinking with the heart but rather thinking with your head. I have no idea what you are planning to go

[Ziad Naser Eddin]

Why exactly is this school kid walking home from school dressed as a guerilla with his head covered and identity obscured??

Isreali people are killing Palestinians but Palestinians are also killing Israelis. Demanding international war of some kind is not exactly the path to peace - and that's a path which has by no means been neglected. The US, UK and multiple other countries have been trying to establish a peaceful 'two state' solution for countless years now. Only just recently they failed yet again with talks... but you know, you can lead a pair of horses to water but when they're hardline religious/'my people' politician horses, you can't make them drink. Neither side is particularly in the right or the wrong in terms of killing each other, bar some power differential, and neither is prepared to back down. I mean, which side do you suggest should be supported by the international community? Should we move ahead by starting a war with (and killing) Israelis or Palestinians, which is better, if we want to end this via intervention as you suggest?

With all due respect it's very naiive to post random un-traceable photos of people who may or may not be who they say they are and demand international war under the impression it will somehow reduce killing. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan for some excellent examples of international 'interventions' which have helped not one jot. They've stopped reporting all the bombs in Baghdad except for the big ones now as well. There are THAT many bombings and that many people dying every single day. I mean, would anybody re-propose the invasion of Iraq??? Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead - and also hundreds of international forces dead. Situation still not resolved.

The only people who can really resolve this situation without one side killing the other are the politicians at the top of each country. And when IB students are meant to be knowledgeable that includes questioning sources of information (I certainly question all of yours!) and looking at history. Violence has never really solved violence, and especially idealogical violence and ESPECIALLY religious violence, which is the most intractable sort. Again - look at Iraq. Split down religious lines and in some kind of civil war. I would venture to say that war strengthens divides rather than solving them.

FYI : The Palestinian senior who was shot "Nadeem Nowarah" was shot during a peaceful protest, he was NOT throwing stones NOR was he using any weapon of any kind, he was a 16 year-old kid and he was shot 5 times through the back, and straight through the heart, he did not show any signs of threat, but the IDF decided to shoot him instantaneously, meaning to kill him, a 16 year old child, he had a bright future ahead of him.

+ The "guerilla" you're talking about, is called a Palestinian Kofeyyeh, it represents the Palestinians and their homeland, not terrorism, say what you will, and i do not intend to disrespect anyone, but what happened to Nadeem was unjustified and we all know it!

btw, The ratio of Israelis Killed " Palestinians killed 1 : 4.5 (20,000 : 90,000), nevermind the lands stolen and other unregistered killings...

[nsawan]

With all due respect those asking for evidence and coherent sentences, Firas's native language is obviously Arabic, and having English as a second language may be the reasons for his incoherent sentences. Firas here is obviously a Palestinian living in Palestine and does seem to have the right view of things just because he shows no harm and aggressiveness in his posts. Being a witness of the crime that occurred, his points are valid. When mentioning the media, he means to say that what you see in the Western world isn't necessarily true. I'm pretty sure a good number of people agree that the media tries to manipulate us whether in politics or even beauty. Firas is obviously very upset and frustrated with the living conditions of his nation. He is not asking for anyone to take action or anything, he is simply stating a fact and is only trying to raise awareness. With that said, he should be aware that there are people out there with different views,beliefs and perhaps religions, that may not accept his post. However, I praise him for trying to raise awareness, and defending his country without being too aggressive in his use of language. Your points are valid, but the evidence you are asking for is what these people witness everyday. However, I would like to ask Firas to actually get evidence that can convince people who are asking for it. Although I believe him, others may not.

[Firas Hommos]

hello,

since a lot of people asked for evidence of how the two guys were killed by israeli soldiers the defence for children international organisation is planning to start an investigation and here is its video that shows the moment both of them were killed. And every week palestinians get killed in such aggressive ways. but this is from the few times whats called "israel" was not able to get rid of the video!

the video: ITS NOT FOR faint-hearted or people that don't want to see the truth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaibEqx2m_k

btw a lot of people tried to write comments on the previous post but there was a problem facing the website so they didn't show up!

Edited May 20, 2014 by Firas Hommos

[YellowSpider]

hello,

what exactly were they protesting against? not sure if i got it right, but were the teens throwing stones at the army guys?

[Firas Hommos]

hello,

what exactly were they protesting against? not sure if i got it right, but were the teens throwing stones at the army guys?

15th of may is alnakba day, 66 years ago at this day zionists came to palestine and the war started and that was the day whats called "israel" was created, till now my grandpa cannot visit his city which israeli gangs took from him that day, and 90% or more of the palestinians are living the same situation. So every year at this day palestinians protest. There was some boys throwing stones but nadeem and mohammad that were killed as you see were not from the guys that were throwing stones they were protesting peacefully. Ofcourse the conflict between us and them is way more complicated, but the point is that nadeem and mohammad were not throwing stones and the video shows this clearly

[Firas Hommos]

With all due respect those asking for evidence and coherent sentences, Firas's native language is obviously Arabic, and having English as a second language may be the reasons for his incoherent sentences. Firas here is obviously a Palestinian living in Palestine and does seem to have the right view of things just because he shows no harm and aggressiveness in his posts. Being a witness of the crime that occurred, his points are valid. When mentioning the media, he means to say that what you see in the Western world isn't necessarily true. I'm pretty sure a good number of people agree that the media tries to manipulate us whether in politics or even beauty. Firas is obviously very upset and frustrated with the living conditions of his nation. He is not asking for anyone to take action or anything, he is simply stating a fact and is only trying to raise awareness. With that said, he should be aware that there are people out there with different views,beliefs and perhaps religions, that may not accept his post. However, I praise him for trying to raise awareness, and defending his country without being too aggressive in his use of language. Your points are valid, but the evidence you are asking for is what these people witness everyday. However, I would like to ask Firas to actually get evidence that can convince people who are asking for it. Although I believe him, others may not.

thank you very much and i brought some evidence and the video that shows the moment nadeem was killed! I really appreciate you comment

[Firas Hommos]

Thank you very much Aline for making things clear this is what I was trying to explain but some people don't want to see the truth I don't know why! I wish that they search more to see the reality and to know that what you are stating is 100% correct

[Sandwich]

the evidence I have are my eyes hahah all of this happens in front of us, Israel and palestine are in war from 66 years ago so the israeli soldiers don't care about the price of bullets. The soldier that shot them is a SNIPER and he killed nadeem from the first bullet but he decided to shoot him more and more so that the other guys don't try to go and take him away, he wane his friends to see him bleeding badly without being able to do anything, and I'm saying what was happening right there.

Talking about the picture of the sniper his name is Ostrovski he is an Israeli soldier in a sniper unit, there was a lot of articles about him you can search the internet, and he is a SNIPER. And this photo shows the reality of the israeli army in general, and how they treat us.

I think that you only want to defend israel i don't know why.

I don't have any errors nadeem was my friend, i saw the five bullets that were in his body, the sniper didn't have the right to kill him, he cannot kill a child! And he was a sniper, he was not afraid if the guys knew from were he is shooting because they didn't have any weapons to hurt him. he is still holding his school bag man take a look at the photo man.

And I live in palestine since forever every day i see what israeli soldiers do, and i see such things every day and this is my evidence, luckily i was able to find a video for "aldura" which was also a child killed with his dad while going to school, youtube deletes other videos, and this video luckily was not deleted and it shows you that israeli soldiers are willing to kill any body, even very young children which don't even know the meaning of the word war, here is the video please watch it :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrW--mvCZWA

i hope now that you believe that israel wants to get rid of us, no matter if they are killing a child, father, mother or an old man.

but we are never gonna give up and we will win at the end because this is not there land, and they don't care about it as much as we do

Yes of course, I forgot that opposing an international war and thinking that that photo shows a young man in a balaclava hiding his identity means I only want to defend Israel. How silly of me, thinking that as a totally random foreigner I wasn't actually a partisan member of the war effort. Any point of disagreement with you naturally means I want to defend Israel, it's so clear to me now. It's weird how I never knew this about myself, but now you've pointed it out to me, your logic is so impeccable that I just can't deny it. Only by believing everything you say and agreeing on every point can I not in fact be specifically supporting Israel. Fantastic.

When I wrote that Israelis are killing Palestinians but Palestinians are also killing Israelis (children, fathers, mothers and old men too, as a matter of fact), and that a war isn't going to achieve anything... well, if I hadn't got the above testament to your genius I would have wondered if perhaps you didn't read a single word I typed. However clearly you understand what I wrote so much that you've found a totally new meaning to it. It's truly incredible.

I know people are dying in Palestine (AND Israel), whether your story is true or not. And Iraq and Pakistan and all sorts of horrible conflicts around the world. It sucks. I don't doubt that women, children and old people are dying in all of these places and at the hands of all sorts of people - in the case of Pakistan they're not even dying at the hands of their enemy but at the 'hands' of unmanned drones. It's sick and disgusting and should never happen. What I doubt is that continuing to murder one another is actually going to resolve anything much at all. Part of maturity is learning that effective solutions by nature cannot involve violence (unless you entirely eradicate somebody!!) but instead you need talking, compromise and for people to stop feeling as totally polarised as you do. I mean you even just attempted to polarise me into one box or another! You don't seem to realise that as a non-Israeli and non-Palestinian, I might perhaps not have a 'side' or that I might be able to say things that refer to the situation instead of a specific side of the situation. When people say or think things like "you're with us or against us" "their agenda is to EXTERMINATE US ALL" and so on, it may be born out of anger and how you feel, but it's also not helpful. Because if that's how people feel, nobody is ever going to build a bridge, people are going to keep killing each other and you end up with the never-ending situation of horror exemplified by the Gaza Strip.

What's the solution to "i hope now that you believe that israel wants to get rid of us, no matter if they are killing a child, father, mother or an old man" - to change it to the Israelis saying "i hope now that you believe that palestine wants to get rid of us, no matter if they are killing a child, father, mother or an old man"? Because you're daft if you think that'll 'help' people like the kid in your story, or that an Israeli teen deserves to die any more than a Palestinian teen. Fact is: none of them do.

[Guest Haneen]

لآ حول ولا قوة الا بالله ,, ان شاء الله في الجنة !

I'm a palestinian IB student living in qatar.. I'm feeling really sorry for that. One day we all will be able to live peacfully in our home Palestine.

[Firas Hommos]

لآ حول ولا قوة الا بالله ,, ان شاء الله في الجنة !

I'm a palestinian IB student living in qatar.. I'm feeling really sorry for that. One day we all will be able to live peacfully in our home Palestine.

امين يا رب ان شاء الله

oh hello yess inshallah soon all palestinians are going to be able to go back to palestine and live like any other country in the world :D

[Sandwich]

http://vimeo.com/50531435

 

Interesting cartoon to watch. And relevant (of course).

[IBdoingthistosurvive]

I was extremely saddened by this...years of conflict between Israel and Palestine, among youth being killed in other Arab countries like Syria and Libya, are just costing more and more lives - like all political/moral/economic conflicts are

now the "governments" (I put quotations because one's government is supposed to protect their people) are simply laying the foundation for another generation of violence and hatred by affecting every aspect of another Palestinian child's life v.v

Insha'Allah, we still can't loose hope though, all we can do is continue to promote peace and put effort in being a part of the solution rather than the problem by being more active in organization in our own community targeting awareness of such issues, as well as action that we can take towards ending it  

 

Thank you for sharing this because it's evidently really easy for us to take what we have for granted, like you mentioned even being a student.

[SallyShariff]

I'm just sick and tired of all the innocent and unnecessary lives lost. Since Tuesday, 154 killed so far over 500 injuries. Today, a rehabilitation centre was targeted. I'm sorry, but aren't you targeting Hamas militants? Oh yeah, forgot that Hamas is the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT in Gaza and therefore any government building or public service building is up for grabs.

 

Sick and tired I tell ya

[CiaranAussie]

I have friends living in Israel, the West Bank and even some fighting in the Israeli Defense Force.

I have heard mixed messages about the conflict from many of them, and although their responses to me are quite vague as obviously they are not allowed to give away certain information about their duties.. the message does seem to be unanimous that they are seeking peace and not war. We saw earlier today, in fact 4/5 hours before the ceasefire was over, rockets fired at Israel from Gaza that landed just over the border.
In my honest opinion, the war occurring in Israel is a war against terror, that is a war against Hamas. Hamas being a terrorist organization according to the USA, Australia, EU, Jordan, Egypt etc.
However it would be ignorant of me to ignore the casualties on both sides of the conflict, there are over 1000 Palestinians that have been killed due to the conflict, but is the Israel army really the ones to blame?
Surely, when rockets are being shot from civilian buildings including (confirmed) UN hospitals and schools, there will be civilian casualties!
Not everything the IDF does is right by no means, they are conscripted kids mostly 18-21 years old, but they are still battling terrorists who have no concern for human life whatsoever.

Unfortunately there have been dozens of rockets fired at Israel today now that the ceasefire has ended, so far no response but I expect there will be an extremely large response from Israel, and that scares me purely because of the innocent Palestinian civilians that do not deserve to be caught in the crossfire.