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"If not me, who? If not now, when?" - Emma Watson's speech on feminism. Thoughts?


yii yann

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rymHYhlbBmw

 

I think Emma has a great point here - how are we to achieve equality when often half the world isn't invited to the conversation? 

 

I will talk a bit about first world feminism here. 

 

It is time we stopped the "us versus them" mentality. When fighting for rights, we unknowingly develop this attitude, and it is simply not helpful for the cause. This mentality causes many actually egalitarian men to develop a disdain for the feminist cause. 

 

Men - I will be the first (apart from Emma) to say that there are prejudices against you too. It is not fair for me to constantly talk about inequality against me, when there are many against you too. I can appreciate those of you who feel caged by the ideas of masculinity, by men and also by women who judge you for your deviation from it. I wholeheartedly empathise with you, because many women go through the same thing. I understand what it feels like when girls drool over pictures of adonises on magazines, and then you look at your own body. I know what it is like, I have the same problem with impossibly proportioned girls. I know that for each time I'm judged as "bossy", one of you is being called a pussy. 

 

We face similar problems, you and I. Please don't think that most feminists are just trying to "win". We are not. I agree that you have not been listened to, and this is causing many of you to distance yourself from the cause. But it is a necessary cause, this feminism. I hope that you understand, empathise and will join us in trying to eradicate inequality.

 

From now on, I will be as mindful of inequality against men as I am of that against women.

 

I hope that all genders are able to identify prejudices against each other, and one by one, remove them. It will take conscious effort, but we can do it. 

 

I'd like to leave you with a quote from the video. 

 

"If not me, who? If not now, when?"

                                                                                  - Emma Watson, at the UN's HeForShe campaign

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I totally agree with your opinion yii yann! I hold a very strong feminist view, but I really don’t like the fact that there are quite a few feminists out there who misunderstand the good spirit of feminism. Feminism is really just about equality between men and women. It’s not about women treating men the same way as men used to treat women in the past. It is also not about women having the rights to judge a man based on their prejudices against men.

 

I recently have a little discussion with my friend about this matter. She thinks that when going for a date in a café or a cinema, the man should always be the one who pays for his girlfriend, and never the other way around. This would be her ideal boyfriend, because it shows that he is a ‘gentleman’. But the funny fact is that she claims herself to be a feminist. How ironic! How does she expect to get the same rights as men, when she wants men to pay for her? I really don’t understand that mentality at all.

 

I realized that there are a lot of norms in society that disallows equality to happen, while sharpening the distinction between men and women. And the only way to change and improve this is for everyone to change their mind and their selfish thoughts! Emma made an excellent speech and I hope this video will circle the world so that people can make a contribution to change the world!

 

Make a difference by clicking here http://www.heforshe.org/#take-action :)

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fem·i·nism noun \ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm\

: the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

: organized activity in support of women's rights and interests


As a student of the IB, I don't see women in western countries as a particularly disadvantaged demographic. In fact I would say they are amongst the more priviledged. Especially here in the Nordic countries, it doesen't matter if you're male of female or a trigendered cyclops, you have the same pay as someone else in your position. Most professionals here are unionized and union statistics prove this fact.

Not only that, but Emma Watson, probably more priviledged member of her demographic (caucasian female) coming forward and going on about "Hey everyone, my demographic is oppressed." is something I personally find somewhat irritating.

 

Men have always been the disposable sex. Think about it. Men are join the military and go fight in wars. They are the ones working the more 'dangerous' fields of work in the society. Men are disposable. If 90% of the female population were to disappear, it would spell disaster for that population because babies won't be made fast enough and then pretty soon the population will decrease. If 90% of the male population were to disappear overnight- well some men would have some long nights and maybe polygamy, cultural norms permitting. See, even biologically men were always built to be the disposable sex.

 

It's true, women are oppressed in some places. In developing countries, poorer countries- these places may have a long history of oppressing women in the society. There is no denying this fact. The bigoted people in high positions in these countries often do little to help. Often the most respected people in these places are religious leaders. In terms of equal rights for all sexes, it would probably be more productive for all forms of religion to be abolished but of course that isn't possible. Then you think about the men in these third would countries and you realize they are oppressed too - oppressed financially and definetly more 'disposable' than a man in a western society.

 

Here is some 'feminism' in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GO_X4DkwA_Q

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fem·i·nism noun \ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm\

: the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

: organized activity in support of women's rights and interests

As a student of the IB, I don't see women in western countries as a particularly disadvantaged demographic. In fact I would say they are amongst the more priviledged. Especially here in the Nordic countries, it doesen't matter if you're male of female or a trigendered cyclops, you have the same pay as someone else in your position. Most professionals here are unionized and union statistics prove this fact.

Not only that, but Emma Watson, probably more priviledged member of her demographic (caucasian female) coming forward and going on about "Hey everyone, my demographic is oppressed." is something I personally find somewhat irritating.

 

Men have always been the disposable sex. Think about it. Men are join the military and go fight in wars. They are the ones working the more 'dangerous' fields of work in the society. Men are disposable. If 90% of the female population were to disappear, it would spell disaster for that population because babies won't be made fast enough and then pretty soon the population will decrease. If 90% of the male population were to disappear overnight- well some men would have some long nights and maybe polygamy, cultural norms permitting. See, even biologically men were always built to be the disposable sex.

 

It's true, women are oppressed in some places. In developing countries, poorer countries- these places may have a long history of oppressing women in the society. There is no denying this fact. The bigoted people in high positions in these countries often do little to help. Often the most respected people in these places are religious leaders. In terms of equal rights for all sexes, it would probably be more productive for all forms of religion to be abolished but of course that isn't possible. Then you think about the men in these third would countries and you realize they are oppressed too - oppressed financially and definetly more 'disposable' than a man in a western society.

 

Here is some 'feminism' in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GO_X4DkwA_Q

 

 

Unfortunately, I think you're making the mistake that Emma is trying to avoid. You're making it look like fighting for female rights is somehow bad for men. There are very few areas where you can see women as more privileged than men. It seems that a lot of people who make that claim are talking about romance and sex when that varies quite wildly. I'm not sure I'd say men are oppressed with regards to the social expectation of paying for a meal (which is easily avoided anyway). But I'm open to understand where you're coming from with regards to women being more privileged in society. 

 

Your second point isn't that helpful either. Men are generally sent off to war because it's the best option given it's a very physical job. Differences in testosterone does that. Anyway, men aren't sent to war because they're less valuable than women. It's because they're seen as better than women at that job. Why do you think it took so long for armies to trust women to have complete control over things that were done at home? If men were seen as disposable and thus sent to war, then it would be women making those decisions on behalf of men. However, that's never happened. Men aren't seen as disposable for many many different societies. It's a tad unfair to think so. Do you think you're less valued as a person by females and males alike just because you have the slight possibility of being sent to war? 

 

The video you linked is often linked when people start talking about what 'modern feminism' has become. It's a terrible red herring. It's quite clear that such behaviour doesn't have to extend to all feminists. Something i've found quite interesting is that a few of those who claim feminists now simply hate men instead of ask for equality rarely talk about it. They just complain about what feminists are doing wrong and post videos like this to take away from the real issue in hand. I don't think it has ever been of real importance. Hell, even if this were the majority, it doesn't need to detract from the ambition for there to be proper equality between genders. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting thread. I agree with AWB's point that Men were given responsibility in military/political matters because of the biological differences not social stereotypes. We all know that Feminism is giving equality between males and females BUT if the aim really is equality then why is that women in several countries are asking for "reservation" in the national parliaments? Isn't that for a fact that that actually gives women an unfair advantage?

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Interesting thread. I agree with AWB's point that Men were given responsibility in military/political matters because of the biological differences not social stereotypes. We all know that Feminism is giving equality between males and females BUT if the aim really is equality then why is that women in several countries are asking for "reservation" in the national parliaments? Isn't that for a fact that that actually gives women an unfair advantage?

 

I suppose the argument for positive discrimination in this sense is that at the moment there's a glass ceiling. Why are women not getting through to the top? Ultimately equality is the goal, but sometimes in order to remove the glass ceiling you have to force an initial percentage through it. I agree that it's not equality, but equality is not currently being achieved via the current system. Either you say women are too useless for these roles at the moment, or there's something complex going on that prevents them getting through - men having a tendency to select fellow men is a big one, and often systems are set up to promote this sort of thing. A lack of role models and a tendency to treat female politicians differently from male politicians is also another thing, if we're talking about government. Nobody ever criticises a male politicians dress sense (unless he's wearing a plastic bag or something) but female politicians get all sorts of comments and expectations which are not true of men. There's also the idea that powerful women are somehow not feminine any more and have become masculine. Blah blah. Basically I'm not saying that's the ENTIRE list of reasons why at the moment there are barriers, it's quite complex. But to get rid of the barriers, I do think that artificially forcing them open is good. It's not like the women who get selected are randomers off the street, they're all qualified.

 

So I agree with you that it's an 'unfair advantage' but it's an unfair advantage to correct an unfair disadvantage. At least temporarily. 

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One thing that i think is important to note is that Emma does state in her talk that she recognizes that she has been privileged, but many women around the world are not given those same opportunities that maybe she and i received.  Its also very interesting how terrible of a connotation the word feminism has received. As an american teenager, being called a feminist around the halls is definitely not a good thing, which totally sucks because i would love to stick up for EQUALITY between sexes without being called a "man hater". I hope that this idea she has set up can create a change :)

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  • 2 months later...

I think the real problem with feminism is that it's terribly boring, and often pursues extremely trivial goals. I'll be honest and say I would never say I was a feminist, despite believing very strongly in equal rights for both genders. If you follow feminists and go on their websites, it's all frankly nauseating stuff about female empowerment. I am just not interested in that crap, personally. If there is an injustice somewhere I will happily stick up for it - equal pay, equal time off (including for men), equal opportunities and consideration for jobs, the abolition of environments that are like a boy's club and so on.

But feminism is brandished as a 'weapon' in virtually every debate no matter how unrelated and it does my head in, I have zero interest in that group of people. Nobody even does anything, they just go around online taking down music videos for 'degrading women' and talking trivial crap. For instance one of my friends constantly posts feminist stuff on facebook, and the latest contributions are 'fat discrimination' and 'why we should ditch the concept of virginity for good'. WTF. Neither of those in my opinion relate to feminism. Neither of them are really addressing serious inequality problems. 'Blurred lines' (the song) was another one. Attacked by 'feminists' for its content. Who called the politically correct police?? Nobody cares, I don't listen to it and feel degraded and I'm fairly sure nobody uses the lyrics as a guide to life. It's a cracking song.

It's the fact feminism has seeped into so many thing that I don't really agree with, that it's lost sight of all the important bits - most of which have been done already by people like the suffragettes - that stops me saying I am one because I don't want to affiliate myself with all the (in my opinion) rubbish that comes with it. Discrimination is wrong end of story, and you just have to be a decent person to think that, not affiliated with some kind of group or movement. Racism bad, sexism bad, homophobia bad. The idea we need a special group for each kind of discrimination seems to be missing the whole point. I mean are people going to selectively discriminate? Oh I'm a feminist but I'm also a racist. I believe in gay rights but women should go and mop the floors? IMO crazy.

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You guys know how violent behaviour was blamed on video games in the past? Well, now video games are being blames for sexism and misogyny. Nowadays, everything and anything is violence against women. It sickens me how easily people blame video games for everything. I don't think these feminazis care about feminism at all. They just want the attention from the controversies they cause.

 

Also, I know what Sandwich means by feminism being brandished as a weapon for every single damn issue. I hate it so much. It trivialises feminism and taints its image.

 

Emma seems sensible. I hope she doesn't become a feminazi. 

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