What do you know about ISIS?

[Guest]

Hi everyone!

 

I've joined Model United Nations as an extracurricular activity and we're having our first debate about ISIS.

 

As of what I know from the news in my country, ISIS is an extremist group who is trying to convert everyone they meet into Islam. HOWEVER, as I do research, I've read in many sources that ISIS had a long history and was actually funded by the USA before they got their name now. A senior even told me that ISIS is not at all evil, because from the sources she learnt from (and she's very passionate about this) she found out that many Western countries are believing in the "lies that the US set up". She told me that a country can actually make money from wars. I'm very confused.

 

What do YOU know about ISIS? Please share!

 

It would mean a lot to me to finally know the truth behind all of this. Thank you  

[Sandwich]

Erm well in terms of not evil, I think no matter what their origins, murdering women, children and foreign aid workers, some of it broadcast live on TV as executions would win the Pretty Damn Evil award no matter who the judge was! They're a pretty sick bunch of people in that respect. If all those deaths can be explained away by a conspiracy theory involving america, I will eat my hat. What has physically happened is not a lie.

 

As far as I'm aware, ISIS is actually quite new. It's the product of some groups which have been around for a long time, but their latest manifestations and the sort of stuff they're up to is all from a slightly newer leadership and recruits. They only re-named themselves ISIS very recently. They're basically a group of Sunni muslims in Syria who think that everybody who is not a muslim ought to be slaughtered and that all Sunni muslims (not Shia - they are also bad in the eyes of ISIS) should live under an incredibly strict version of Sharia law. So they're fighting for control of the whole middle east, slash killing/raping those who stand in their way.

 

To be honest you're probably better off reading Wikipedia than asking us, unless it's peoples level of knowledge which you are particularly interested in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

[Knight]

ISIS is an Islamic militant group labelled "too radical" by likes of Al-Qaeda and Taliban. It is socially and technologically savvy (like the Anonymous Hacktivst group) and recruit people through the internet. NATO nations such as the US and France have already lauched several airstrikes on Syria and Iraq to hunt down their secret bases. Despite Syria's authoritarian Assad Government, the ISIS remains the foremost problem in Syria,...and to global peace and security.

[sameera95]

I may not know much but what I know is that their so called actions are extremely non-islamic _ Islam does not call for violence, it calls for peace. Now, I'm not here to start a religious debate, but there is a point I'd like you to consider - and as an IB student you should be open to multiple points of view. I'd like to redirect you to this video, which gives us the Islamic point of view on ISIS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev66XbTSY8E. It will be a little difficult to understand, because half of what he says is in Arabic, but it's worth a watch

[Knight]

I understand your concern. By calling ISIS "Islamic", I simply meant that it consists of Muslim members. Of course, an extremist group is rarely ever religiously affiliated!

[SallyShariff]

As a Muslim, I have to say that ISIS and all it represents is not Islamic nor is it Islam.  

 

So why are muslims being blamed? Because the Governments and the corporations that benefit from having a perpetual war are obviously not going to admit that A) They funded and armed the group and that B) That they're making a whole lot of money out of it

 

This whole situation honestly just screams 1984 being reenacted right before our eyes. Perpetual war. Enemies that were once friends that are now enemies. Distortion of truth.

 

These so called muslims are actually the moderate Syrian rebels that the US funded to topple Assad, and I guess we can all see how that worked out.

 

Wikipedia in my opinion is not a trustable source of information this topic, in order to gain real knowledge you must seek out alternate sources of media that are proven not to be propaganda machines. A good example would be veteranstoday.com, a reputable alternative news site.

 

It's the ignorant ones that claim that the Quran/muslims call for the slaughter of "infidels". The statement itself makes me laugh. The Quran CLEARLY states:

 

"Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in God and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. [2:62]

 

In Islam, it is considered that if you kill one, it is as if you have killed all of mankind, and if you save a life, it is as if you have saved all of mankind. This goes to show the significance Islam puts on these things, human life is no small matter.

 

Anyways, as long as you have 2 functioning brain cells, it is plain to see that ISIS does not represent the beliefs of 1.8 billion muslims, but rather the destructive force of meddling and untruthful governments that are looking to make a profit in the destruction and destabilization of other countries.

 

The propaganda machines that are CNN, FOX and the like are spewing hate and fear to scare the population into agreeing on going back for round 2 in Iraq and a fresh war in Syria.

 

I'm worried for the direction our leaders are taking us. Syria has a mutual defence pact with Iran who also has a pact with Russia. Is WW3 really such a distant possibility? I think not.

[Sandwich]

Of course, an extremist group is rarely ever religiously affiliated!

 

Can't work out if this is meant to be sarcastic! Extremist groups are quite commonly religious, in my opinion.

[Sofia.]

 

Anyways, as long as you have 2 functioning brain cells, it is plain to see that ISIS does not represent the beliefs of 1.8 billion muslims, but rather the destructive force of meddling and untruthful governments that are looking to make a profit in the destruction and destabilization of other countries.

 

 

I don't think most people believe that all muslims agree with ISIS, and I'm sure (even though I'm not very informed on the matter) that ordinary muslims don't hold the same beliefs as ISIS does. However, ISIS itself claims to be muslim, and is acting from those beliefs, so I wouldn't say that it's clear to anyone with "2 functioning brain cells" that ISIS isn't muslim. 

[Knight]

 

Of course, an extremist group is rarely ever religiously affiliated!

 

Can't work out if this is meant to be sarcastic! Extremist groups are quite commonly religious, in my opinion.

 

Extremist groups call themselves "religiously affiliated" but in fact that is just a disgusting attempt to justify their crimes. Extremist groups' main purpose is to kill and create terror among common civilians such as us and frustrate national governments.These groups have only one religion: terror. Call me old-fashioned, but in my opinion they are the devil's children.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Knight

[Knight]

As a Muslim, I have to say that ISIS and all it represents is not Islamic nor is it Islam.  

 

So why are muslims being blamed? Because the Governments and the corporations that benefit from having a perpetual war are obviously not going to admit that A) They funded and armed the group and that B) That they're making a whole lot of money out of it

 

This whole situation honestly just screams 1984 being reenacted right before our eyes. Perpetual war. Enemies that were once friends that are now enemies. Distortion of truth.

 

These so called muslims are actually the moderate Syrian rebels that the US funded to topple Assad, and I guess we can all see how that worked out.

 

Wikipedia in my opinion is not a trustable source of information this topic, in order to gain real knowledge you must seek out alternate sources of media that are proven not to be propaganda machines. A good example would be veteranstoday.com, a reputable alternative news site.

 

It's the ignorant ones that claim that the Quran/muslims call for the slaughter of "infidels". The statement itself makes me laugh. The Quran CLEARLY states:

 

"Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in God and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. [2:62]

 

In Islam, it is considered that if you kill one, it is as if you have killed all of mankind, and if you save a life, it is as if you have saved all of mankind. This goes to show the significance Islam puts on these things, human life is no small matter.

 

Anyways, as long as you have 2 functioning brain cells, it is plain to see that ISIS does not represent the beliefs of 1.8 billion muslims, but rather the destructive force of meddling and untruthful governments that are looking to make a profit in the destruction and destabilization of other countries.

 

The propaganda machines that are CNN, FOX and the like are spewing hate and fear to scare the population into agreeing on going back for round 2 in Iraq and a fresh war in Syria.

 

I'm worried for the direction our leaders are taking us. Syria has a mutual defence pact with Iran who also has a pact with Russia. Is WW3 really such a distant possibility? I think not.

I never said ISIS was Islamist. All I said was that it consists of Muslim members. I strongly believe all extremist groups individually never support any one religion .Not to offend Islam in any way, don't you feel that despite the Holy Quran's idealistic  writings, it is fishy that most of the extremist groups (Hamas, ISIS, al-Qaeda) predominantly consist of Muslims? (genuine question I don't know the answer to)

[Sandwich]

 

 

Of course, an extremist group is rarely ever religiously affiliated!

 

Can't work out if this is meant to be sarcastic! Extremist groups are quite commonly religious, in my opinion.

 

Extremist groups call themselves "religiously affiliated" but in fact that is just a disgusting attempt to justify their crimes. Extremist groups' main purpose is to kill and create terror among common civilians such as us and frustrate national governments.These groups have only one religion: terror. Call me old-fashioned, but in my opinion they are the devil's children.

 

 

Well I think you're confusing extremism and terrorism to an extent. Not all extremists are terrorists, extremists just have really far out views on things - extreme views For instance a lot of the "bible belt" in the US has some pretty extreme religious views, and groups like PETA are extremists, because of the way they take animal welfare to levels which most of us would consider slightly mad. They don't have to be terrorists to be coming from an extreme angle.

 

And as for saying they're just "religiously affiliated" - well the whole point of ISIS is religion. That's where it started, that's how it recruits, that's what it uses to justify everything it does. It even hates other sections of its own religion. You can say it's an extreme or 'wrong' (to us) interpretation of religion, but that's why they're 'extremists'! Religion is the basis of their entire ideology! To say they're not about religion just because they're also terrorists is I think just a bit of political correctness. There are christian groups that spend their time waving placards against homosexuality, abortion, and all sorts of things which I consider pretty extreme, but it doesn't stop their motivation being religion. Even if most christians I know would say that it's 'not' christianity. Well, it is. It's just a different interpretation. Equally then, the way ISIS are interpreting Islam IS what they're about. Just because we don't agree with it, it doesn't stop what they're doing from being religiously motivated.

[Blackcurrant]

Religion has always been a perfect tool for gaining and exerting power. Always was, always will be. Nothing more to it.

 

It is not worth equating muslims and islam with ISIS. It is merely a terrorist group that seeks power through terror. The rest is coincidental. 

Edited October 18, 2014 by Blackcurrant

[Sofia.]

Religion has always been a perfect tool for gaining and exerting power. Always was, always will be. Nothing more to it.

 

It is not worth equating muslims and islam with ISIS. It is merely a terrorist group that seeks power through terror. The rest is coincidental. 

 

It's a terrorist group that seeks power because of its religious belief. I wouldn't call that coincidental... Some of ISIS members probably only want power, and believe this is the perfect way to get it, but many join because of religion. 

[SallyShariff]

ISIS can claim whatever it wants, that doesn't make it's claim true. It can go right ahead and claim to be representing Islam.

 

You could also say it's propagating its interpretation of Islam. I don't consider taking one verse out of the Quran and waving it around with absolutely no context or understanding whatsoever an interpretation. But that's just me.

 

ISIS is a terror group, however what I would like to know is why a religion of nearly 2 billion people is being held responsible for the actions of much less than 1% of its population.

Why should I be apologizing for the behaviour and actions of morons? Why should I apologize/condemn things I have no control over?

 

How come the media isn't questioning the American govt's role in arming and funding this group (Let's not forget about how they also funded and armed Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Remember, America doesn't have friends of enemies, only interests), and if this can be considered an act of terrorism for which the govt. should be held responsible.

 

How come the media is fear mongering and scaring us into agreeing into another war in Iraq, meanwhile conditioning us for the deployment of ground troops?

 

Why are we okay with trillions being spent on these military excursions into the middle east when they can be better spent here at home? Why aren't there riots in the street?

 

The complexity of the whole ISIS thing can give one headaches. If you ask me, I wouldn't take CNN at face value.

[Sandwich]

ISIS can claim whatever it wants, that doesn't make it's claim true. It can go right ahead and claim to be representing Islam.

You could also say it's propagating its interpretation of Islam. I don't consider taking one verse out of the Quran and waving it around with absolutely no context or understanding whatsoever an interpretation. But that's just me.

ISIS is a terror group, however what I would like to know is why a religion of nearly 2 billion people is being held responsible for the actions of much less than 1% of its population.

Why should I be apologizing for the behaviour and actions of morons? Why should I apologize/condemn things I have no control over?

 

 

I think you're on your own crusade here with regards to the people here and this thread, nobody has been implying any of these things. Certainly round here, nobody is holding all muslims responsible for what is clearly a bunch of crazies. Besides, given that none of the respondents have been american/canadian it's safe to say none of us watch CNN except for you!

 

But I understand where you're coming from. In this country (the UK) the muslim council and so on have been condeming the group and so on, for two reasons. Firstly, to ensure that no idiots use it as justification for hate crimes and so on. It's all a lot of posturing, but coming out and condemning something and standing in solidarity with everyone else is actually a powerful thing to stop all the thugs and idiots (who know very little about who is who) from conflating ordinary people with the group. It's fairly sad that they feel this is still necessary, but I think it's a wise thing to do because of the position it puts them in. They're clearly not apologising on the behalf of themselves, but distancing and showing we all have similar opinions on this one (that it's frankly barbaric) actually does create unity where some individuals might have tried to create strife.

Secondly because here we have a problem with young muslims being radicalised, adopting these extreme religious views and going over to Syria to join ISIS. The most powerful people to persuade a group acting on a religious motive, are respected people within that religion coming out and telling them how screwed up it is. It's not a massive problem, I think barely 200 or so people have gone and done it, but it's worrying that despite growing up here in a safe and tolerant environment, people can still have these extreme views and actually feel motivated to go out and join the violence. The man who has been beheading aid workers and journalists has an unmistakably British accent.

 

Arguably we spend all this money in the middle east for three reasons. First and foremost I think a lot of people believe we broke it. Secondly, it is a threat to us in the western world. If we let it grow bigger and bigger and recruit more and more people into this insane way of thinking, then we have a serious issue. And finally just on humanitarian grounds. People are dying at such a rate and in such a random way through the civil war in Syria and other conflicts that we've more or less lost count. There aren't riots in the streets because I think a lot of people feel either one or all of those things to be true - nobody likes to see all the footage of people being massacred in Syria, Iraq or anywhere else. It's sick and in terms of public opinion, I think people want to do something about it, although it is of course balanced against a history of failure and loss of life whenever we intervene in that part of the world. 

 

In a way, that's not what this thread is about, but those would be the answers to your points, if you asked me.

[Knight]

Nice one, Sandwich

[Blackcurrant]

 

Religion has always been a perfect tool for gaining and exerting power. Always was, always will be. Nothing more to it.

 

It is not worth equating muslims and islam with ISIS. It is merely a terrorist group that seeks power through terror. The rest is coincidental. 

 

It's a terrorist group that seeks power because of its religious belief. I wouldn't call that coincidental... Some of ISIS members probably only want power, and believe this is the perfect way to get it, but many join because of religion. 

 

 

 

That doesn't really make much sense to me --i.e. religion prompting people to seek power. The need for power and control is something already within, not outside of us. It doesn't arrive with religion. Religion is just a convenient excuse.

 

 A devout Christian seeking power and control *because* he is Christian ... ?

 

Compare this to the power-hungry, control-seeking individual who happens to be Christian and sees it can be bent to his purposes. Or becomes Christian because of the obvious opportunities to move people his way. I find the latter fits better with the reality around us.

 

There is plenty of evidence to show that humans are herding animals. They like to group together. Like sheep or cows. Sometimes they need a little help to corral themselves in. Nothing like some black and white English collie's to snap at their feet, to keep the herd grouped in happy "togetherness". Religion (like other institutions) happens to serve very well for this same purpose. And this particular, large, conveniently-formed group (communities of 'followers and believers') doesn't go unnoticed by those who want to take the world by storm.

 

Terrorists, like anyone else, would much rather cloak their (very human, very personal, very profane) petty vindictive desires and enormous... hang-ups  in lofty, grand terms. How else will they attract others to them? The profundities of religion will do very well thank you. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Blackcurrant