Is art useful?

[Starfall]

I recently discussed with a person, who tought that art is utterly useless, and all public arts funding should be stopped.

I don't fully agree, since art may not be useful, but some things can be done just because one wants, just like others enjoy sports or mathematics.

Please share your toughts and don't feel offended by this topic, I just want some toughts and discussion.

If you feel poll is lacking something let me know and I can add it ^^

[ibprincess]

this sounds like tok lol

[Emilia1320]

Well, only thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of art clubs but no math clubs , so I think that inside my school some funding from arts should be moved to sciences, because there is zero activities for folks like me. Overally I think that if arts cannot fund itself there should not be public funding for it. (I don't mean school clubs, I mean individual art projects)

[King112]

Well, only thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of art clubs but no math clubs , so I think that inside my school some funding from arts should be moved to sciences, because there is zero activities for folks like me. Overally I think that if arts cannot fund itself there should not be public funding for it. (I don't mean school clubs, I mean individual art projects)

I don't agree with you to be very honest. I play music, and I have a band. Now we are in the process of writing originals, but the thing is that if we don't get some help from a record studio or something, we won't be able to make an album, even if it's just one. We will need funding from somewhere other than ourselves, because otherwise it's really expensive. So, I think public funding is needed

And another thing I want to ask you then is why should science be publicly funded, but not the arts? Fact of the matter is more people prefer arts in some form. Whether painting/drawing, making/listening to music or something. Hence, isn't it natural that we will fund arts more? 

And I can argue that science has torn parts of the world apart. Like, by inventing the AK-47, science has made a way to slaughter people by the dozens. But has art done that? No.

Hence, I think that both are important, but if left by itself, with nothing changing, arts are more important.

Edited April 8, 2015 by King112

[Emilia1320]

Well, only thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of art clubs but no math clubs , so I think that inside my school some funding from arts should be moved to sciences, because there is zero activities for folks like me. Overally I think that if arts cannot fund itself there should not be public funding for it. (I don't mean school clubs, I mean individual art projects)

I don't agree with you to be very honest. I play music, and I have a band. Now we are in the process of writing originals, but the thing is that if we don't get some help from a record studio or something, we won't be able to make an album, even if it's just one. We will need funding from somewhere other than ourselves, because otherwise it's really expensive. So, I think public funding is needed

And another thing I want to ask you then is why should science be publicly funded, but not the arts? Fact of the matter is more people prefer arts in some form. Whether painting/drawing, making/listening to music or something. Hence, isn't it natural that we will fund arts more?

And I can argue that science has torn parts of the world apart. Like, by inventing the AK-47, science has made a way to slaughter people by the dozens. But has art done that? No.

Hence, I think that both are important, but if left by itself, with nothing changing, arts are more important.

Well, only thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of art clubs but no math clubs , so I think that inside my school some funding from arts should be moved to sciences, because there is zero activities for folks like me. Overally I think that if arts cannot fund itself there should not be public funding for it. (I don't mean school clubs, I mean individual art projects)

I believe you misunderstood a bit, I said that in MY school where there is multiple art clubs but no science clubs some of the club funds should be taken away from art clubs and used to make a science club because there is not even one in existance. I did not say art clubs need to be shut down, but it's just fair science folks would have a club too.

About public funding, well, I just think that as economical situation is what it is (bad, at least here) it's necessary to priorize, and if in my country there is discussion about savings to educations and healthcare I think that arts funding is waste of money compared to those more vital things. Just my opinion ofc

In my opinion also arts hasn't brought very much good for me as an individual. Science on other hand has, a lot. Arts has just made me sad, frustrated and confused very least.

Also on larger scale, without science in some form we would still be painting cavepaints, we would never have became a modern civilization. Without arts we maybe would be a bit poorer mentally, but otherwise no a big loss. This if we think it in large scale.

Some fields of science then again should be funded because for example medical sciecne and healthcare go pretty far together. Unless you want to deny importance of healthcare don't deny importance of medical science. Other areas as well: physics and mathematics are needed to develop safer ways to produce energy, biology and chemistry (parts of them) are needed to monitor and assure we don't use something dangerous accidently (like in form of cosmetics or food). Then simply economical potential of applications of sciecne, if you fund (right areas and projects) of science and engineering that can hopefully pay back in form of economical growth. Just my view in this ofc

Now for an individual arts of course can be very important! Like any hobby, I don't have anything against that of course ^^. I hate doing arts for one, but I know folks who love them, and that's good, because they've found something they're good at and enjoy.

Anti-question: has arts ever made a way to save millions of lives? Nope.

... In a nutshell, I am all for individuals doing arts if they enjoy it, but against public funding in this bad economical situation.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Emilia1320

[King112]

yeah, fair enough

Sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you

sorry if it seemed that way

[Emilia1320]

yeah, fair enough

Sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you

sorry if it seemed that way

Nah, it's fine. ^^ I know my view to world is not maybe the most common one and I like to share toughts with people and read different views on things ^^ peace

[ibprincess]

Well, only thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of art clubs but no math clubs , so I think that inside my school some funding from arts should be moved to sciences, because there is zero activities for folks like me. Overally I think that if arts cannot fund itself there should not be public funding for it. (I don't mean school clubs, I mean individual art projects)

sorry but no

 

like honestly what would the purpose of a maths or science club be? everything that can be done in a maths or science club is discussion of what is already known? almost no one in any high school level maths/science club has the potential to be able to discover some great mathematical/scientific thing that will impact anyone in any way? additionally, if there were maths or science clubs, i feel like they would be quite elitist and not welcoming to those with less knowledge in the area. 

 

in a drama/music/art/dance/etc club, everyone, of all skill levels and backgrounds can create something amazing that has the potential to impact a lot of people. and more than the artistic skill side of the arts, you learn a lot of important life skills. in drama you learn confidence and how to communicate to other people, in music you learn to about how to listen, in art you learn patience and how to observe and interpret, in a dance class you learn about fitness. in a science or math club, you can't do much more than discuss what has already been discovered and what has already impacted people. also like i've been to schools where the yearly drama budget was $50 and honestly if you think some of that $50 should be taken away from the arts to fund something that just requires a textbook then there's something kinda wrong going on there

 

I understand that different people interpret the world in different ways, and i understand that you adore maths and science, but either maths or science is compulsory in most school curriculums from a young age and if people aren't inspired about maths and science young they're never going to become inspired about it. i know that i seem biased towards art and yea i am biased towards art not because i think they are better than maths/science/"academic" subjects but because arts have a way of engaging and inspiring people in a way that pythagoras theorem never will. 

 

if arts don't deserve funding then why should other areas deserve funding? i think you'll find the amount of government money spent on arts is quite small and i think if you compare that sum to the amount of government money spends on scientific research (combined with university funding because a lot of research is done in universities) and on medical research the amount spent on arts would be much smaller. (haven't researched that but i do believe that). additionally most artists fork out enormous amounts of money and fund themselves and like these are people who get paid when they have a job and live of of ramen and canned food the rest of the year they don't have money to be buying props or costume or musical instruments or sheet music or canvases or art supplies or dance clothing etc because those things are so expensive you know? scientists are generally hired at a research facility and everything that they'll need comes out of the research facilities money so their personal expense is not nearly as great think. also if we need to look at funding areas that should have less money, i think take money away from the military because lets be real man stop wars love each other peace out

 

 

Anti-question: has arts ever made a way to save millions of lives? Nope.

 

i want to say yes

drama- to show the power of drama, i'd like to point out that Nazi germany and the KKK used drama to encourage people to join them. yes, that example is the opposite of saving lives but it shows how powerful it is. additionally there is drama therapy, psychodrama, playback theatre etc all of which act as a form of counselling to people through the arts and has been found to be extremely beneficial to all sorts of people. also drama has been found to be effective in educating people and in giving a voice to those who need it

music- i have heard of so many people who have said that a song has saved their life, or that a band or singer has saved their life, because it gives people a sense of bellonging and a sense that they fit in somewhere. also music and singing releases endorphins which scientifically makes people happier and therefor its used a lot in hospitals in mental health wards and in childrens hospitals.

art- the feeling of creating art and expressing yourself through art is often connected with making people feel good about themselves and making people be able to have some sort of release through their art. and creating art is again employed as a therapeutic technique in a lot of hospitals to give the people there something to do and a way to express themselves.

dance/other- essentially the same thing

 

also the impact of arts is enormous like did you know in iran a president tried to ban music because it had a western influence that he was trying to block out? yea that was a thing

 

and a brazillian politician used theatre to act out his proposed legislation to the common people so they could have an input into what they wanted to see in the laws

 

so ok maybe they haven't saved lives in the nature of medicare and stuff but yes it saves lives in other ways and every life saved is equal and valued the same so i will stand by thinking that arts have saved lives.

 

 

but i don't want this to come across wrongly--i think science is incredibly important and i do stand by a lot of the things you said about science, but i think some of it was incredibly biased. i tried to be unbiased in writing this but you may think its biased and thats totally ok but I want it to be said that the arts are just as important as the sciences and should not be deminished in any way

[Emilia1320]

 

Well, only thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of art clubs but no math clubs , so I think that inside my school some funding from arts should be moved to sciences, because there is zero activities for folks like me. Overally I think that if arts cannot fund itself there should not be public funding for it. (I don't mean school clubs, I mean individual art projects)

sorry but no

 

like honestly what would the purpose of a maths or science club be? everything that can be done in a maths or science club is discussion of what is already known? almost no one in any high school level maths/science club has the potential to be able to discover some great mathematical/scientific thing that will impact anyone in any way? additionally, if there were maths or science clubs, i feel like they would be quite elitist and not welcoming to those with less knowledge in the area. 

 

in a drama/music/art/dance/etc club, everyone, of all skill levels and backgrounds can create something amazing that has the potential to impact a lot of people. and more than the artistic skill side of the arts, you learn a lot of important life skills. in drama you learn confidence and how to communicate to other people, in music you learn to about how to listen, in art you learn patience and how to observe and interpret, in a dance class you learn about fitness. in a science or math club, you can't do much more than discuss what has already been discovered and what has already impacted people. also like i've been to schools where the yearly drama budget was $50 and honestly if you think some of that $50 should be taken away from the arts to fund something that just requires a textbook then there's something kinda wrong going on there

 

I understand that different people interpret the world in different ways, and i understand that you adore maths and science, but either maths or science is compulsory in most school curriculums from a young age and if people aren't inspired about maths and science young they're never going to become inspired about it. i know that i seem biased towards art and yea i am biased towards art not because i think they are better than maths/science/"academic" subjects but because arts have a way of engaging and inspiring people in a way that pythagoras theorem never will. 

 3

Do you really think I would want a science club because I believe I could do something meaningful there? No, of course I don't.

Nor folks of our art clubs make masterpieces that people pay money for, at least on my school.

Point is, that both art-oriented folks and science-oriented folks deserve a club to practice their skills, and maybe someday some of them do something meaningful, on art or in sciecne. I don't think purpose of a high-school club is do do high end stuff, that's absurd, but it's for spending time like any hobby. And maybe someday they'll win a Nobel. It won't be me, my talents are nowhere near as much that I could ever do that, but someone else may as well do. We can't know. And as you say arts and science are equal value, therefore also science-oriented young people are equal value, and therefore I think that either literature, drama, music or painting club of my school should be replaced with a math club because, its just fair. Art oriented people have here 4 to choose from, I and others like me can just go home and try and learn on our own.

But more importantly, purpose of sciecne club would be exactly same as art clubs: offer a way to spend time fun way. You propably can imagine that doing math alone on my flat day to day gets boring, because where I have books guiding me a mentor could provide me and others problems and topics I don't think about by myself and help if I get stuck (which doesn't happen often, thanks to Internet and all those books I own)

About me being biased, sure, I sort of am, I admit. Reason is I was always bad at arts and felt very let down at one point for it. I decided my value as person based on that, and I tought I was no good. I didn't value myself at all, due my failures with art. I didn't get even a bit of my confidence back before I came to IB (trough my parents forcing me lol).

However I would like to argue you also show bias. Pythagoras theorem can amuse people like some piece of art, it's just about what makes the person amused.

Thanks for writing me back, I like to discuss with people and your text was interesting to read

Edited April 8, 2015 by Emilia1320

[King112]

 

 

Well, only thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of art clubs but no math clubs , so I think that inside my school some funding from arts should be moved to sciences, because there is zero activities for folks like me. Overally I think that if arts cannot fund itself there should not be public funding for it. (I don't mean school clubs, I mean individual art projects)

sorry but no

 

like honestly what would the purpose of a maths or science club be? everything that can be done in a maths or science club is discussion of what is already known? almost no one in any high school level maths/science club has the potential to be able to discover some great mathematical/scientific thing that will impact anyone in any way? additionally, if there were maths or science clubs, i feel like they would be quite elitist and not welcoming to those with less knowledge in the area. 

 

in a drama/music/art/dance/etc club, everyone, of all skill levels and backgrounds can create something amazing that has the potential to impact a lot of people. and more than the artistic skill side of the arts, you learn a lot of important life skills. in drama you learn confidence and how to communicate to other people, in music you learn to about how to listen, in art you learn patience and how to observe and interpret, in a dance class you learn about fitness. in a science or math club, you can't do much more than discuss what has already been discovered and what has already impacted people. also like i've been to schools where the yearly drama budget was $50 and honestly if you think some of that $50 should be taken away from the arts to fund something that just requires a textbook then there's something kinda wrong going on there

 

I understand that different people interpret the world in different ways, and i understand that you adore maths and science, but either maths or science is compulsory in most school curriculums from a young age and if people aren't inspired about maths and science young they're never going to become inspired about it. i know that i seem biased towards art and yea i am biased towards art not because i think they are better than maths/science/"academic" subjects but because arts have a way of engaging and inspiring people in a way that pythagoras theorem never will. 

 3

Do you really think I would want a science club because I believe I could do something meaningful there? No, of course I don't.

Nor folks of our art clubs make masterpieces that people pay money for, at least on my school.

Point is, that both art-oriented folks and science-oriented folks deserve a club to practice their skills, and maybe someday some of them do something meaningful, on art or in sciecne. I don't think purpose of a high-school club is do do high end stuff, that's absurd, but it's for spending time like any hobby. And maybe someday they'll win a Nobel. It won't be me, my talents are nowhere near as much that I could ever do that, but someone else may as well do. We can't know. And as you say arts and science are equal value, therefore also science-oriented young people are equal value, and therefore I think that either literature, drama, music or painting club of my school should be replaced with a math club because, its just fair. Art oriented people have here 4 to choose from, I and others like me can just go home and try and learn on our own.

But more importantly, purpose of sciecne club would be exactly same as art clubs: offer a way to spend time fun way. You propably can imagine that doing math alone on my flat day to day gets boring, because where I have books guiding me a mentor could provide me and others problems and topics I don't think about by myself and help if I get stuck (which doesn't happen often, thanks to Internet and all those books I own)

About me being biased, sure, I sort of am, I admit. Reason is I was always bad at arts and felt very let down at one point for it. I decided my value as person based on that, and I tought I was no good. I didn't value myself at all, due my failures with art. I didn't get even a bit of my confidence back before I came to IB (trough my parents forcing me lol).

However I would like to argue you also show bias. Pythagoras theorem can amuse people like some piece of art, it's just about what makes the person amused.

Thanks for writing me back, I like to discuss with people and your text was interesting to read

 

Well, another thing I want to point out is that you are one person. Science clubs, like astronomy or robotics are popular because they basically are out of the box. A club simply dedicated to solving math problems or something will (brutal honesty headed here) be boring to most people. Most people would rather read or something rather than solve math. 

And another thing, confidence has nothing to do with art or science. I play guitar, and write. I am told I do both very well, I still lack confidence. I used to love science, but I still didn't have confidence. So just putting this out there

[Emilia1320]

 

 

 

Well, only thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of art clubs but no math clubs , so I think that inside my school some funding from arts should be moved to sciences, because there is zero activities for folks like me. Overally I think that if arts cannot fund itself there should not be public funding for it. (I don't mean school clubs, I mean individual art projects)

sorry but no

 

like honestly what would the purpose of a maths or science club be? everything that can be done in a maths or science club is discussion of what is already known? almost no one in any high school level maths/science club has the potential to be able to discover some great mathematical/scientific thing that will impact anyone in any way? additionally, if there were maths or science clubs, i feel like they would be quite elitist and not welcoming to those with less knowledge in the area. 

 

in a drama/music/art/dance/etc club, everyone, of all skill levels and backgrounds can create something amazing that has the potential to impact a lot of people. and more than the artistic skill side of the arts, you learn a lot of important life skills. in drama you learn confidence and how to communicate to other people, in music you learn to about how to listen, in art you learn patience and how to observe and interpret, in a dance class you learn about fitness. in a science or math club, you can't do much more than discuss what has already been discovered and what has already impacted people. also like i've been to schools where the yearly drama budget was $50 and honestly if you think some of that $50 should be taken away from the arts to fund something that just requires a textbook then there's something kinda wrong going on there

 

I understand that different people interpret the world in different ways, and i understand that you adore maths and science, but either maths or science is compulsory in most school curriculums from a young age and if people aren't inspired about maths and science young they're never going to become inspired about it. i know that i seem biased towards art and yea i am biased towards art not because i think they are better than maths/science/"academic" subjects but because arts have a way of engaging and inspiring people in a way that pythagoras theorem never will. 

 3

Do you really think I would want a science club because I believe I could do something meaningful there? No, of course I don't.

Nor folks of our art clubs make masterpieces that people pay money for, at least on my school.

Point is, that both art-oriented folks and science-oriented folks deserve a club to practice their skills, and maybe someday some of them do something meaningful, on art or in sciecne. I don't think purpose of a high-school club is do do high end stuff, that's absurd, but it's for spending time like any hobby. And maybe someday they'll win a Nobel. It won't be me, my talents are nowhere near as much that I could ever do that, but someone else may as well do. We can't know. And as you say arts and science are equal value, therefore also science-oriented young people are equal value, and therefore I think that either literature, drama, music or painting club of my school should be replaced with a math club because, its just fair. Art oriented people have here 4 to choose from, I and others like me can just go home and try and learn on our own.

But more importantly, purpose of sciecne club would be exactly same as art clubs: offer a way to spend time fun way. You propably can imagine that doing math alone on my flat day to day gets boring, because where I have books guiding me a mentor could provide me and others problems and topics I don't think about by myself and help if I get stuck (which doesn't happen often, thanks to Internet and all those books I own)

About me being biased, sure, I sort of am, I admit. Reason is I was always bad at arts and felt very let down at one point for it. I decided my value as person based on that, and I tought I was no good. I didn't value myself at all, due my failures with art. I didn't get even a bit of my confidence back before I came to IB (trough my parents forcing me lol).

However I would like to argue you also show bias. Pythagoras theorem can amuse people like some piece of art, it's just about what makes the person amused.

Thanks for writing me back, I like to discuss with people and your text was interesting to read

 

Well, another thing I want to point out is that you are one person. Science clubs, like astronomy or robotics are popular because they basically are out of the box. A club simply dedicated to solving math problems or something will (brutal honesty headed here) be boring to most people. Most people would rather read or something rather than solve math. 

And another thing, confidence has nothing to do with art or science. I play guitar, and write. I am told I do both very well, I still lack confidence. I used to love science, but I still didn't have confidence. So just putting this out there

 

Well, that is a point, but I still refuse to believe I would be the only one. Well, on larger scale I dont think clubs of my school are the point, (altough lack of a proper one and unwillingness of teachers to change anything makes me quite sad at times). Sorry for getting to sidetrack. 

 

Well, dont know. I still personally fail to see ANY use of arts at any form besides that people spend time doing them, and it seems to make them happy altough I fail to see why. When I look at Picasso painting I dont think "oh thats so great", I think "what is the logic there?"

... if it however makes someone happy its not wasted effort, I guess everyone can use some happiness at times  

[Emmi]

Art is extremely useful. Ibprincess made a lot of good points that I'm not going to repeat again, but looking back at history art has had an enormous impact on religions, history, politics, science, economics, and society. The ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Middle Eastern cultures didn't just create art and enormous monuments because they wanted to, those statues and buildings were representations of their cultures and religion, and feats of engineering that still stand today. Monumental art and architecture shows political power.

 

Art tells a story without words, which was important when many people were illiterate. Even today, sometimes art can capture raw human emotion and history better than simply a narrative. Let's take Picasso's Guernica, which for those who are unfamiliar with the work, is here: http://weareugn.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/picasso-guernica.jpg. Most people are going to say "Wow, that's so weird/I could draw that/that isn't even any good/etc." But let's examine the background of it. Guernica was a small town in northern Spain that was subjected to a bombing raid during the Spanish Civil War. The city was bombed on an open market day for the city as a practice for warplanes to bomb towns. The painting is a testament against war and was used to bring attention to the Spanish Civil War. It's an enormous painting (like 25 feet/7.5 meters long and 11 feet/3 meters high) so when you view it, the pictures of destruction, death, agony (a mother is holding a dead child), and chaos hit you and makes you think about things such as history, politics, and the human condition. Art is powerful, and to simply dismiss it is to literally throw away the entirety of human advancement and expression. Art is one of the fundamental things that make humans human. That isn't to say science should suffer at the expense of art (after all, I'm an engineering student), but we can't go dismissing art entirely because one school won't make a math club.

[Emilia1320]

Art is extremely useful. Ibprincess made a lot of good points that I'm not going to repeat again, but looking back at history art has had an enormous impact on religions, history, politics, science, economics, and society. The ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Middle Eastern cultures didn't just create art and enormous monuments because they wanted to, those statues and buildings were representations of their cultures and religion, and feats of engineering that still stand today. Monumental art and architecture shows political power.

Art tells a story without words, which was important when many people were illiterate. Even today, sometimes art can capture raw human emotion and history better than simply a narrative. Let's take Picasso's Guernica, which for those who are unfamiliar with the work, is here: http://weareugn.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/picasso-guernica.jpg. Most people are going to say "Wow, that's so weird/I could draw that/that isn't even any good/etc." But let's examine the background of it. Guernica was a small town in northern Spain that was subjected to a bombing raid during the Spanish Civil War. The city was bombed on an open market day for the city as a practice for warplanes to bomb towns. The painting is a testament against war and was used to bring attention to the Spanish Civil War. It's an enormous painting (like 25 feet/7.5 meters long and 11 feet/3 meters high) so when you view it, the pictures of destruction, death, agony (a mother is holding a dead child), and chaos hit you and makes you think about things such as history, politics, and the human condition. Art is powerful, and to simply dismiss it is to literally throw away the entirety of human advancement and expression. Art is one of the fundamental things that make humans human. That isn't to say science should suffer at the expense of art (after all, I'm an engineering student), but we can't go dismissing art entirely because one school won't make a math club.

Sorry I didn't say art should be dismissed did I? I made a few points against it, but each time I said if it's useful for individual then it's fine. Mostly I criticize public funding my country gives to it because better uses do exist (and they aren't necessarily math clubs, on larger scale I just wish that if my country needs to take loan money losses like art tuitions should come to an end). And art is not the only thing where I think my county is throwing resources to waste, and in the end its small amount of money, but drops become river and this topic was about arts right? Edited April 9, 2015 by Emilia1320

[King112]

I found this discussion, its older, but not too old, and is relevant

 

http://www.ibsurvival.com/topic/33083-who-cares-about-the-arts/

[THEliberator]

This discussion is similar to one that I have had with my classmates. Many people think arts are not useful, and especially in India (where I stay) a student who takes any art is regarded to be one who is not good in academics. However the truth is that art teaches us to communicate our point vividly and using different modes.