fourierseries Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Hello! I'm new to this forum and I have a few questions in regards to my subject choices for next year (we're being asked to choose now at my school), please help! I'm looking at doing either Further Mathematics HL or Chemistry HL as my sixth subject, since I won't be doing Arts. For a bit of background, I'm taking: English A Lang&Lit Mandarin ab initio Economics SL Physics HL Math HL I'll most likely be doing Math or Physics at university, and I'm quite passionate about math, but I've read that Further Math is crazy hard and I should refrain from taking it. I'm doing IGCSEs right now and I'm breezing through Additional Maths, but Chemistry is a whole different story! I'm not horrible at it, but I find myself working thrice as hard in Chemistry, yet I'm still getting better results in Maths. However, I believe that I will be the only student (if not one of the few) doing Further Math at my school, whereas Chemistry I'll be taking with a larger class. Which subject do I pick? Thanks in advance! Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw0573 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 One of the benefit(downside?) to studying Further Math is that there is no IA and it rather complements Math HL quite well. Chemistry HL (at least thermodynamics, equilibrium, reaction rates, some extent of physical/chemical properties) you can probably condense into less than 1 year of study once you get a solid foundation in math and physics. I would not count on spending thrice more time in Chemistry HL than Math HL because IB is not at the same level as IGCSE. Both math and chemistry will get a lot harder. (@mac117). I will go as far as saying SL Math is beyond scope of Add Maths. Objectively speaking, Chemistry HL would require a lot of conceptual understanding than either math HL courses. You should make the choice depending on if you foresee yourself going into any chemistry fields (general/organic/inorganic/analytical chemistry, chemical engineering, biochemistry, materials science, polymers). Many engineering and science majors require 1 or 2 semesters of chemistry in university so quite likely you will have to take general chemistry at some point. 1 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac117 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 As someone who recently finished igcses and did additional maths, i have to second @kw0573. I didn't breeze through the course myself personally, but didn't find it very hard either. I take both maths and Chem HL now, and I think that maths is less challenging thanks to the solid foundation I received through the igcse course. Sure, we go more in depth now, but with knowing how the concepts themselves work, it is easier to build up on that knowledge. You should be in a similar, if not better, position, since you find the maths course straightforward. For chemistry you will have to learn a lot more compared to igcse. And i really mean a lot. My current course companion has about 550 pages if you count only the option I'm taking. Igcse didn't go over half of the topics in the syllabus, and if you have to work hard to get good grades at igcse level, I would advise against chemistry HL unless you're passionate about it. I personally love chemistry and do not mind spending the extra time on it. So far I have 7s in both, and whilst my grades in chemistry are slightly better, I spend more time understanding (and sometimes memorising) certain aspects and concepts compared to maths. In my year, those who took add maths igcse and are doing both Chem and maths HL right now find Chem HL to be more difficult. 1 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourierseries Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 @kw0573 Thanks for the advice! I doubt I'll be going into chemistry-related fields, as I'm a more pure sciences type of person rather than an applied one. I'm also quite worried about support for Further Math, since I hear there isn't a set textbook and your performance largely depends on your teacher. I'm currently leaning towards math instead of chemistry since it sounds a lot more interesting, but will I lose out on anything if I elect to not chose Chemistry? Also, not having an IA in Further Math is a nice addition Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourierseries Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 @mac117 Thanks for the advice! I'm currently leaning towards Math anyway, but I might not have the necessary support if I do Further math, since a lot less people do it rather than Chemistry. How manageable is it to take Chemistry HL after Chem IGCSE? As in, how many hours on average do you spend on a subject in a week? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw0573 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 28 minutes ago, fourierseries said: @kw0573 Thanks for the advice! I doubt I'll be going into chemistry-related fields, as I'm a more pure sciences type of person rather than an applied one. I'm also quite worried about support for Further Math, since I hear there isn't a set textbook and your performance largely depends on your teacher. I'm currently leaning towards math instead of chemistry since it sounds a lot more interesting, but will I lose out on anything if I elect to not chose Chemistry? Also, not having an IA in Further Math is a nice addition For a lot of the courses, your performance largely depends on experience of teacher. IB does not officially publish any textbooks so all textbooks are published by third-party companies. You should do some preliminary searches to see if your post-secondary goals involve chemistry as a prerequisite. Not sure what you mean if you'll lose out on anything, because you will always miss topics if you do not take a course. You should decide your courses base on your interests and future goals and not from how well you think you can perform. We cannot accurately predict how much support you will get, that you have to ask your school. As someone who did not take IGCSE, Chemistry HL takes between my friends and I about as much time as Math HL, which is about 7-12 hours per week, in order to score at least a 6. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourierseries Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 @kw0573 I'm looking to take mathematics or physics at undergraduate level, so chemistry will most likely not be a prerequisite for the course. Prior to Chemistry HL, did you have any Chem background? I'm very confident in the chemistry teacher at my school, but since my tertiary education won't require the subject, I will most likely take further math HL. My biggest concern is the level of difficulty in the course; is Further Math HL a big jump from Math HL itself? I'm passionate about math but I really don't want to risk bad scores — especially since Further Math isn't a prerequisite for most math courses. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw0573 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) 53 minutes ago, fourierseries said: @kw0573 I'm looking to take mathematics or physics at undergraduate level, so chemistry will most likely not be a prerequisite for the course. Prior to Chemistry HL, did you have any Chem background? I'm very confident in the chemistry teacher at my school, but since my tertiary education won't require the subject, I will most likely take further math HL. My biggest concern is the level of difficulty in the course; is Further Math HL a big jump from Math HL itself? I'm passionate about math but I really don't want to risk bad scores — especially since Further Math isn't a prerequisite for most math courses. My school's graduating class have about 60 students taking Math HL and 10 taking Math SL. When we applied to pre-IB program that starts in grade 9, most of us had >94% in math; ~200 were accepted and about 60 each years make it through Math HL. Almost unanimously, is said to be the most difficult class that we offer. @MikhailS took Further few years ago. I will say that the HL Option (also in Further Math syllabus) of Calculus gave everyone an especially hard time. So I said I spent 7-12 hours/week in most of Math HL, but in that option unit I spent 12-16 hours a week. There is just one person from my school who I know would probably get a 7 in Further and he got a 5 in SAT AP BC Calculus 6 months before his final IB exams, and 92% in Math HL (>78% is usually 7). What I mean is if you choose IB, your courses will be hard so I find it quite unnecessary to worry about performance this early, especially since you haven't even started. Most admissions need only 6s in HLs so it's quite likely that you can do that in Further. But you need to be more cognitive about the math in Further compare to regular HL. Without downplaying the difficulty of HL, you will probably succeed in Further if you can take HL with relative ease in the topics not covered in IGCSE. With Further as hard as it is, it's also important to not overestimate its difficulty to the extent that you are neglecting your other courses. Unfortunately for the aforementioned classmate, certain of his other courses took significant hit partially due to the tremendous focus in math. So your performance in Further also depends on how much time you plan to spend in your other courses, which goes back to my answer of it being too early for any of us to know. Oops I circumnavigated your question! I learned about elementary reactions (eg single displacement) and some periodic trends (such as electronegativity) before Chemistry HL. I am in chemical engineering major so I'm *slightly* biased to have you choose chemistry! Edited November 1, 2016 by kw0573 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourierseries Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 @kw0573 Thanks for the super detailed reply; very much appreciated! I agree with you, I don't think I should be too worried about my performance in IB when I'm not in it yet. I'm really keen on Math, but I've seen so many students (on and off IBS) recounting Math HL horror stories — Further must be worse, no? I actually enjoy thinking 'outside the box' for math problems, but I'm not too sure if I'm really good at it. Currently, my predicted Add Maths IGCSE grades look good (<95), so I shouldn't be worried about my performance yet, right? Slightly off-topic, but I'd like to ask which topics in the HL Core aren't covered in Add Maths/Maths IGCSE — so far I haven't seen any. Of course, the Option topics are a whole different story. I hear tons of complaints for the Calc option — is it that dreadful? I've always thought Discrete Math was the difficult one! I honestly don't plan on spending too much time on my other subjects; Economics SL should be manageable (I'm taking Econ at IGCSE as well), along with English A SL and Mandarin ab initio. Physics HL may be a little bit time-consuming (not sure about this, but I'm doing alright in Physics right now), but that should be about it. Chemistry or Further Math, whichever one I choose to take, will most likely form the large chunk of my study time, I believe. A question: how well-prepared were you for your university studies with taking Chemistry HL? Did you get college credit/exemption from courses, or did you breeze through any general chemistry first-year courses? Universities all say that Math HL is sufficient for math majors, but I really want to explore different aspects of math, and the ones in the Further Math syllabus look really interesting! Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac117 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 2 hours ago, fourierseries said: @mac117 Thanks for the advice! I'm currently leaning towards Math anyway, but I might not have the necessary support if I do Further math, since a lot less people do it rather than Chemistry. How manageable is it to take Chemistry HL after Chem IGCSE? As in, how many hours on average do you spend on a subject in a week? For me chemistry is manageble. Most of the topic we will cover/ have covered are interesting to me, so i do find it easier to put effort into the subject compared to my friends. IGCSE isn't really that amazing of a preparation for chem HL , as you will learn that some of the concepts were overly simplified. I'm not saying that chemistry is lord-knows-how difficult, but I know people who got A* in chem and are on a 5 in HL. Passion for the subject has a large influence on how well you will do in the end, at least in my opinion. I spend around 5-8 hours doing maths every week and 7-10 doing chem. It's the optimal time for me, and sometimes it is a bit more when I have a test or something coming up. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw0573 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 8 hours ago, fourierseries said: A question: how well-prepared were you for your university studies with taking Chemistry HL? Did you get college credit/exemption from courses, or did you breeze through any general chemistry first-year courses? Universities all say that Math HL is sufficient for math majors, but I really want to explore different aspects of math, and the ones in the Further Math syllabus look really interesting! Because I did not get a 7 in Chemistry HL, and back when I took it there was such an emphasis in organic chemistry that I was missing a lot of knowledge in thermo and other topics that under advisement I "retook" the second semester of general chemistry II. Chemistry HL allowed me to breeze through general chemistry and first semester of organic chemistry, and doing well in organic I allowed me to breeze through organic II right now. I took transfer credits for math and did well in the second year math courses (which are just more calculus for my major). I agree that Further Math have some interesting topics but you should not underestimate time worth spent on ToK / EE and your other courses to secure a high score out of 45. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourierseries Posted November 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 @kw0573 @mac117 Thanks for the reply! 14 hours ago, kw0573 said: I agree that Further Math have some interesting topics but you should not underestimate time worth spent on ToK / EE and your other courses to secure a high score out of 45. I agree with this; it was my main concern with taking Further Maths in the first place. However, Chemistry seems to be a pretty tiring/time-consuming subject as well, so I'm having second thoughts on either course. Since it won't affect my postgraduate options too much, I'm thinking of simply taking Chemistry at SL and making Economics my third HL option. Is this feasible? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw0573 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 28 minutes ago, fourierseries said: @kw0573 @mac117 Thanks for the reply! I agree with this; it was my main concern with taking Further Maths in the first place. However, Chemistry seems to be a pretty tiring/time-consuming subject as well, so I'm having second thoughts on either course. Since it won't affect my postgraduate options too much, I'm thinking of simply taking Chemistry at SL and making Economics my third HL option. Is this feasible? I think that may most likely get you the highest grades out of all course combinations you have provided. 1 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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