93 replies to this topic

[Emy Glau-ski]

At my school we have three native Spanish speakers (all from Spain) taking Spanish B HL. It makes me mad, because people who actually are at B level like me have to compete with fluent speakers who should be forced to do it at A1 as a self-study or take French B/ab initio. They get to breeze through the class with a 100% average while I have to work and actually take time to learn the language to get similar grades.

[Ipos Manger]

Yeah well we don't have this problem in our school, but in other schools they offer Spanish B SL, and people usually ace the course. (They take English A1 SL).

[giantsushi]

I don't think our school has any policies or requirements to take language B.. but I think it is a good idea to have previous knowledge or is at least fluent in that language, especially if you are taking HL because language B is surprisingly vigorous and difficult. It is still possible to take the language without much previous knowledge and catch up but that is tremendously stressful, you should take ab initio course instead. Otherwise, Language B is an easy 6-7 if you are a native or if you are very fluent.

It's the same for my class. Fluent natives take all the marks and others are just.. a washaway....

[Sinoco]

From my French B class, there's someone who speaks fluent French, and whenever we do grammar and stuff, she gets to leave and do whatever she wants. She was encouraged to take Spanish Ab Initio, but obviously she's going to take the French course if given the choice. It annoys me how she's allowed to miss class every/every other period.

[carpediem]

I know a couple who do this. For example, I have a girl in my class who is fluent in Spanish, but the fair part is that she has to attend all classes like the rest of us. Also, she knew that she didn't want to take another ab initio language, so the only choice she had was to take Spanish.

Plus, there's some people who aren't quite fluent, like another girl I know who has grown up speaking French at home but has grown up in an English-speaking environment.

And now there isn't any A2 anymore, the fluent speakers have no choice to take B now.

[banks]

This happens at my school too! I've got a friend who's German, taking German A1 and English B and he's lived in Australia all his life! His parents speak German at home, but English is just as much his native language as German! There's people taking Ab Initio Japanese who've done it for two years as well, but didn't get good marks so the school let them do Ab Initio. It just ends up being unfair for the people who are actually taking the right level of language because it pushes the mark boundaries up so high. Japanese B is 87% for a 7. I've been doing it for nearly four years, I study pretty hard, get tutored once a week and I've only just started getting 6s. Grrrr!

[IBCONQUERER]

I take Swahili B SL (I have studied literature for 2 yrs before and I got a C in it) but I never had the option of choosing swahili A2 SL because my school has only B! I have studied english lit too so even doing english B would be wrong! In that case I believe I don't have an option!

[Sofia Piff Mango Karlsson]

stylusdef, on Nov 22, 2008 - 21:19, said:

I take English B HL, even though I'm nearly fluent. I love it, since I don't have to put the slightest effort into it in order to earn a 7. Of course, English A2 is better in the sense that it gives you the bilingual diploma, but I really don't care. I'd rather take English B, which for me is like taking one subject less, and study nothing than take A2, which would perhaps reduce my overall grade, which isn't at all beneficial if I want to go to university in Sweden.

If you take Swe lit, you'll get a bilingual diploma you don't actually have to study English at all to get it.. (because you read all the other courses in english)

[solastalgia]

This is actually very relevant at my school. We don't have A2 languages, so all the language classes (aside from A1 English) are at level B. So, we've got a lot of fluent speakers in language B classes. One Arabic teacher at my school finds this unethical so he refuses to teach anything but Arabic Ab Initio, and my Arabic teacher tries to teach his class like an A2 class.

That said, I am a fluent Arabic speaker and the Arabic B exam is still difficult for me because Arabic is a tough language all on its own. I also come from a weaker background in formal Arabic, which is drastically different from the Arabic I speak and know well (Lebanese dialect). I think this whole issue depends on the situation of people taking the class - some people are truly taking a class too easy for them, but others who are fluent are still at the appropriate level.

[Positron]

I guess I'm "going against" the general consensus here, but still I'll have to give you my opinion . I don't see anything unethical about taking a language as SL/B language if you're fluent at it. The grade you get is a measure of how good you are at it, not a measure of how much work you put into it. Is it unethical to take maths SL if you've always been a math genious?

And there might be good reasons to do this. Say, you live in a small country, and your first language is only spoken in your home country. Chances are, that if you go to IB you are not planning to stay in your home country. You speak the language perfectly (since it's your first language) , but it's likely that you will not need it in your future. And even if you did, it's still your first language. So let's say you wan't to pursue an academic carreer abroad. You will probably want to take a lot of HL natural/social sciences. Everyone knows that it will require a lot of work. So why do all think it's so unethical to balance out your schedule with an easier subject, so that you can focuse on the demanding subjects that you think you'll need in your future?

I don't know what the rules say, but if you're not breaking the rules by doing this, it's completely ok in my opinion.

[DC_JackBlind]

Although we aren't the smallest IB school ever (200 Sixth Form students) this is rarely the case. Mostly because people aren't looking for THAT easy of a grade and I think that it would be very hard to explain to a university admissions officers if one were to apply to the UK.
The one or two students, to my knowledge, who have arranged this, aren't pursuing university options here in the UK...

[Gaby]

Well, at my school, beside Polish A, pretty much only Spanish B and English B are offered (in some years, French B and French/Spanish ab inito are offered) but taking English B is compulsory (up till the May 2012 cohort, it was compulsory to take it at HL, starting from my class, it's not). Most of us are rather fluent English speakers but even if we wanted to take English at any other level, we wouldn't be able to. Also, if someone didn't want to take English at all, just take Spanish, it's not possible either.

[Stanislaw]

Gaby, on Jan 30, 2012 - 21:05, said:

Well, at my school, beside Polish A, pretty much only Spanish B and English B are offered (in some years, French B and French/Spanish ab inito are offered) but taking English B is compulsory (up till the May 2012 cohort, it was compulsory to take it at HL, starting from my class, it's not). Most of us are rather fluent English speakers but even if we wanted to take English at any other level, we wouldn't be able to. Also, if someone didn't want to take English at all, just take Spanish, it's not possible either.

Dziedobry z Kanada!

Polish is my third language, a bit sloppy

I take English A2 SL and French A1 Hl at my school; no other languages are offered here. English part of Canada, but French school. As such, all students speak both languages more or less fluently.

Personally I have a huge advantage ; I speak french at home with a french father, and english outside of school. I've managed to accrue 29/30's and i DO feel like its unethical. But I couldn't have taken a higher level french class ; so my feelings of success ensue guilt. Great.

I do think that the students should have an entry exam, and be placed appropriately.

But the main problem is the fact that courses of different difficulties yield the same amount of points. And this cannot be overcome, sadly. Its present in traditional school systems also.

[SmilingAtLife:)]

I get that some schools don't offer a lot of courses. My school only has French B and English A1. Not that I was fluent in French anyway... haha.

But for those that just want the higher grades,
well, school isn't just about grades ...
it's about learning new things...