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"Controversy over death"- Do we blame the climbers who passed by him?


Mahuta ♥

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We talked about this in TOK today under the subtopic 'values'. Although it didn't seem to me that there was much 'value' in this issue, but it was quite interesting.

We have read that article about David Sharp, the climber who died on his way to the Everst mountain summit. Here's the article:

David Sharp

His death was a huge debate in our class and world wide, as many climbers passes by him and didn't offer any help. He needed first aid and oxygen supply more than anything more demanding.

We were asked, if you were a climber that happened to see him like that, would you stop to help him, call rescue team or whatever, or would you just keep on going and hope he's going to be alright?

I said I would definatly help him, even if it meant i'm delaying my 'trip' to my goal.

Why do you think? Would yuo have stopped or no? Remembering the fact that your oxygen supply taken by your body is way lower than normal as well as the extra supply you have with you, which is limited.

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TO me, he knew the risks involved going up there. Same as with other people. It just so happens that our feelings could get in the way, and we would like to say that something should be done. What I am trying to say is, most people will look at this issue at face-value, and say wow everyone passed him they are so stupid. How could they do that. If I was on that mountain would I wish someone was nice enough to stop? yes. But I would have descended at any sign of danger.

I also don't understand what is so special about climbing the mountain in the first place. You cant see Anything up there. Just clouds and maybe a view of a grain rice mountain near-by.

I would have phoned for help, approached him, and asked him to descend and wait for help. Maybe I would have taken his health as a negative omen ,and went down with him myself.

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First off, I would never do something quite so dangerous, and which has no possibility of tangibly benefiting me. But disregarding that, anyone who leaves another human being to die (To climb a mountain of all things ...) has there priorities in a mess.

So, yes, if for some inexplicable reason, I found myself in that situation, I would have helped him.

Though I wasn't there, so who am I to say..

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Everyone says that they would help him, but I really doubt anyone actually would if they were in that situation. Hmm.. how can we test this theory? Oh, wait they already did! No one stopped.

In my opinion these are the factors affecting their decision making at the time:

1. They paid thousands of dollars to get up there once and stopping for someone would probably mean having to come down afterwords

2. They didn't know what situation he was in, how long he was there for or why he is laying under a rock

3. I'm sure most of them (like me) were pretty confident that if they stopped they couldn't do much to help him. (all I know about first aid is how to clean a wound :/)

4. They were freezing... how can you think about someone else's life while yours is on the line?

Do I really need to go on? Obviously no one stopped and obviously they had many reasons not to. This is such a controversial issue only because of the potential it has for sensational headlines in newspapers. "ZOMG THEY DIDN'T STOP :'(" Get a grip.

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If you look halfway down the page, you'll see the part about Lincoln Hall, who was in a similar situation but whose fellowe climbers helped him down the mountain along with 11 sherpas, leading to a full recovery. What a contrast with the David Sharp situation. One had a team of assholes, the other had people with a conscience.

I couldn't live with myself after climbing Mt Everest if doing so had required someone else to die for me to get to the top. How is leaving someone under a rock to die ethical in any situation? In war, many soldiers risk their lives to rescue their injured comrades. Does not knowing first aid mean that you should leave someone who's vein is severed lying on the street? How can you face someone's mother parents and tell them "I did everything I could to save his life" when you walked past him so that you wouldn't waste your $6200 or however much you spent on the trip?

Do parents whose kids get injured on trips say "Well, we paid $3000 to come here and our child got attacked by a shark. Let's not spoil our surfing holiday, she can cope by herself. Serves her right for going out with that shaving cut, of course the sharks can smell her. Bye honey, have fun bleeding to death!" Even if David Sharp did put himself in danger by not preparing adequately for the trip, he shouldn't be punished by being left to die.

If I had been David Sharp's mother I would never have said that it was no one's fault for leaving him there to die. It was a team effort, and a team sticks together. How can there be any kind of trust on those kind of expeditions in the future if people know that they could be left to die and no one would care? No one even had to suffer any legal consequences as a result of this case. Next time, it'll be an entire group of people left to die on a mountain while the leader climbs to the top. Maybe someone will care then, when more than one person dies.

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Climbing in particular is really a bit of a team effort. Everybody is an individual, but the whole purpose of going as a group is because climbs can be unpredictable and you need to be watchful at all times for possible dangers. So any attempt to leave anybody behind, be it intentional or not, is going against the ethos of group climbing.

I would have gone over to help unless I was endangering myself (i.e. difficult way across to him), in which case I would have tried to persuade somebody closer, and called the rescue team. For me, that would be the only possible order of priorities I could live with. General wellbeing has a greater value, in my mind, than personal gain.

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. I'm sure most of them (like me) were pretty confident that if they stopped they couldn't do much to help him. (all I know about first aid is how to clean a wound :/)

He didnt need the first aid thingie as much as he needed oxygen. In fact it's the thing that would have kept him alive.

The thing is, which really gets me, all the reason you mentioned MAY be ok under some circumstances. The part about the money is insane, it is like you're saying a human being's life is not more important than your ambition.

Something you guys forgot if you read the article. The climbers obviously weren't just worried about themselves, they were selfish and careless, here's why: It would have been easier than nothing to inform the rescue team and then they can take care of him. These climbers actually didn't even inform anybody, goes to show that it is their ambition and greed that led them to give off someone's life for it.

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I don't know; it's the Himalayas. He had no gloves, not enough oxygen. All these other people could've done it, so why couldn't have he? When you put it in perspective, there are millions of deaths everyday that occur which could have been prevented. Do you automatically blame all of these people? Do you blame yourself for the death of a malnourished African child? I blame the climbers who passed him for his death, but this amount of blame is not any more or less than the amount of blame I place on privileged people such as you and I who, through our inactions, allow numerous preventable deaths from happening on a daily basis. So, yeah, I do blame them... but in this case, he himself was actually the individual the most responsible for his death.

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I don't know; it's the Himalayas. He had no gloves, not enough oxygen. All these other people could've done it, so why couldn't have he? When you put it in perspective, there are millions of deaths everyday that occur which could have been prevented. Do you automatically blame all of these people? Do you blame yourself for the death of a malnourished African child? I blame the climbers who passed him for his death, but this amount of blame is not any more or less than the amount of blame I place on privileged people such as you and I who, through our inactions, allow numerous preventable deaths from happening on a daily basis. So, yeah, I do blame them... but in this case, he himself was actually the individual the most responsible for his death.

Isn't there a bit of a big difference between being right next to somebody and seeing them in trouble than being far away from somebody and only vaguely aware they're in trouble? Moreover, by climbing with another person, you make some kind of committment to being part of a team and looking after each other.

I agree that we ought to do more to help starving people in the world, but saying that we have the same sort of direct responsibility for that as the passers who passed by the climber did seems a little over the top. Original sin all over again!

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I agree with sandwich. So basically what you're saying is, if you saw someone dying infront of you you will go like.."nah..people are starving to death anyways, its the same thing". It is not.

I purely see it as selfishness and greed. The guy just needed someone to call the rescue team and possibly give him some oxygen. It is not hard at all to call the rescue team.

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  • 1 month later...
Everyone says that they would help him, but I really doubt anyone actually would if they were in that situation. Hmm.. how can we test this theory? Oh, wait they already did! No one stopped.

In my opinion these are the factors affecting their decision making at the time:

1. They paid thousands of dollars to get up there once and stopping for someone would probably mean having to come down afterwords

2. They didn't know what situation he was in, how long he was there for or why he is laying under a rock

3. I'm sure most of them (like me) were pretty confident that if they stopped they couldn't do much to help him. (all I know about first aid is how to clean a wound :/)

4. They were freezing... how can you think about someone else's life while yours is on the line?

Do I really need to go on? Obviously no one stopped and obviously they had many reasons not to. This is such a controversial issue only because of the potential it has for sensational headlines in newspapers. "ZOMG THEY DIDN'T STOP :'(" Get a grip.

I was going to add to this one, but after reading this reply i see that all i have to do is say- 'hear hear!'

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