130 replies to this topic

[KWB]

So, we have the English only position believing that english should be the main language in english speaking countries, its a national identity.  But what is the position behind bilingualism? Is it a loss of identity? Or is it a gain of another culture?

For me it is a gain of another culture as it is for my fellow IB-ers.  Not only do we have the peruvian culture but we have the british culture due to our teachers.

What do you think? Is it good to be bilingual? Or is it bad to be bilingual?

Edited by KWB, Apr 18, 2009 - 03:45.

[Vvi]

The only bad thing I can think of for bilingualism is the possible loss/weakening of one of the languages. For example, people that have lived a way from their home country for a long time and now English/another language is stronger than their native language. This is the case with me, as I have been living abroad for 16 years continuously now and as a result, my Finnish is not as strong as my English. It can pose a problem for thinking and self-expression. It's hard to decide which language to express thoughts in.

[Bishup]

I have felt the same before. Some times I was telling myself I'm undergoing an identity crisis cuz I've got a triple nationality, Swedish, French and English and I sometimes saw this as an uggly trait because I wanted to be of just one nationality.

In my opinion it's great to be bilangual because you have two or more cultures and some times are more open to new cultural aspects. And as you said, if your away from your initial home country there is the chance it might go slightly dow hill if you don't practice it, but you could always go back there and live for a few years.

BTW who else has got a triple-nationality or kinda?

[Vvi]

~Lc~ does, she's Cypriot/Armenian/Jordanian.

I have a classmate who is American/Israeli/Turkish/Armenian. It's the Turkish/Armenian part that really causes problems for her, because she's lived in Turkey for a few years with her extended family, but the Armenians hate the Turks because they were responsible for the Armenian genocide. So she doesn't really know where she fits in, because she doesn't speak Armenian at all, she speaks some Turkish and is fluent in English and Hebrew. And her name is Turkish.

Interestingly enough, my sister, who is completely Finnish like me, considers herself to be African at heart because we lived there for 10 years. Even though she speaks no Swahili and wasn't born there. And in complete contrast to that, my adopted sister (who is black and Kenyan, born there) doesn't want to return to Africa but considers herself Kenyan/Finnish. So it's not just people with double nationality that have issues with self-identity, it's anyone who's living abroad away from their own culture.

[Ruan Chun Xian]

Bilingualism in and of itself doesn't bring the all culture issues that Viivi and Bishup are describing, nor do I think it is likely to bring any problems as you were implying. Merely speaking two languages I don't think is problematic in itself, it's more to do with lots of exposure to cultures different than your home culture. Language alone doesn't provide that kind of exposure. Lots of people speak two or more languages fluently for their career but if they stayed all their lives in one relative same culture, then I hardly think they'd go through an identity crisis like mentioned above.  

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English only position believing that english should be the main language in english speaking countries, its a national identity.

What you're implying here I guess is about sub-cultures within English speaking countries, especially those with lots of migrants, where people may be born outside of said country or have family born outside. An Australian with Chinese parents may identify themselves as Australian, speak Chinese and English, but at the end of the day, they are still exposed to two different cultures, thus any 'identity crisis' they may face is more due to the conflict of cultures (the bigger picture of cultures), not just language, though yes, language is a part of those cultures.

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Is it a loss of identity? Or is it a gain of another culture?

I think it's a case of cultural assimiliation rather than a complete loss or gain.

Viivi: It's interesting about your sister. I have American friends who have lived in Asia/Vietnam most their lives and though they do live a very 'Western' life in Asia, they found it hard to move back to the States when they moved onto to university and still identified more with Asian culture than "American culture" - whatever that is

[Vvi]

I do think that in some cases bilingualism brings problems, because I feel guilty a lot for having to tell people that English is my first language now and not Finnish (the two changed position when I was about 8). I always think of msyelf as Finnish, but not having the same language capability as other people living back home makes me less willing to move back there. I've been noticing in conversations with my parents exactly which words I forget or just don't know the words for. Obviously I don't regret having learned English, but I wish there was a better balance between the two langauges.

And here in Jerusalem, the clash between bilingualism is a problem for a lot of the migrants here. Lots of Ethiopians immigrated here during the 1990's, when there was famine in Ethiopia. Many of the children born here afterwards don't speak Amharic, and speak only Hebrew. They have communication problems with their parents, who speak Amharic better than Hebrew. The Russians, on the other hand, have maintained their own language very well but their Hebrew is awful.

[Tilia]

I think it's a good thing, as long as you really know the languages and don't weaken one of them. I hate to admit it, but sometimes I get English phrases in my head before than the Swedish ones. That's why it's good to study our native language as much as possible.

A girl in my class speaks Russian, German, English and French (Russian mother, German father, lived one year in Canada), another speaks Spanish, English and French (American father, French mother, born in Ecuador) and a third one has an American father, Bulgarian mother and born in Czech Republic. I really envy all of them, there from all kind of exciting countries and I'm merely a plain boring Swede, just speaking Swedish and English comparativley fluently.

Edited by Tilia, Apr 18, 2009 - 10:00.

[Ruan Chun Xian]

Vvi, on Apr 18 2009, 08:30 AM, said:

I do think that in some cases bilingualism brings problems, because I feel guilty a lot for having to tell people that English is my first language now and not Finnish (the two changed position when I was about 8). ... I've been noticing in conversations with my parents exactly which words I forget or just don't know the words for. Obviously I don't regret having learned English, but I wish there was a better balance between the two langauges.

Still don't you think that's more because you're in a position where you have to use more English than Finnish, and the fact that you're living in a foreign country contributes to that as well? It's not the fact that you speak two languages itself, but the fact that you speak one of them more than the other/in a different capacity than the other (academic English vs non-academic Finnish). I know perfectly what you're saying here because I experience it too and I only spent two years overseas when I was very young, but I went to English speaking international school even in my home country so I never really had much experience in Vietnamese schools. I think, say, Joel, would get a better balance of English and Finnish and would not feel that so much. I think it's as Tilia said:

Tilia, on Apr 18 2009, 07:59 PM, said:

I think it's a good thing, as long as you really know the languages and don't weaken one of them.

[saya]

I am multilingual. I can speak Spanish, Catalan, Kashmiri, English, Urdu/Hindi and French.

If your question is regarding the pros and cons of knowing more than one language, then I can tell you that knowing more than one language has tremendous positive effects. Not only does it enable you to learn more quickly other languages because you are more "open" to new rules and structures but I believe it has a positive effect in your cognition too. To a small extent, thought is influenced by language, and therefore, knowing more than one language helps you in understanding situations better as you usually have a more neutral approach to it because you don't think in only one language. It's a difficult concept to explain...  

But sometimes being multilingual is a tad disadvantageous, because at times you can't find the word to express what you mean in the language you are talking in, in that particular moment, and feel like saying the same word in a different language but obviously you can't because the other person won't understand. It has sometimes happened to me that I've unintentionally "borrowed" a word from another language during a conversation, and puzzled out my interlocutor in the process.

Bishup, on Apr 18 2009, 01:31 AM, said:

BTW who else has got a triple-nationality or kinda?

My situation is odd. My mom is spanish, which makes me Spanish but i was born and brought up in Catalunya, which is a region within Spain that want to become independent and claim to be a nation. On the other hand my dad is Kashmiri, so I've also inherited the Kashmiri nationality and to top it the Indian one.
And I personally feel that I am both Spanish and Indian, and also Catalan and Kashmiri.

Edited by saya, Apr 18, 2009 - 15:32.

[ibislife]

As people has brought up earlier in this thread, I think that except of possible national and cultural "rootlessness," the main potential problem is that younger people (say 5-18 years) might get too "split" into the different languages. Intellectual maturity, or whatever I should call it, requires strong skills in a native language. This strongly boosts confidence, and this language is working as a thorough system used for thinking. My experience is, sadly, that some people with really multilingual backgrounds end up not fully developing this system. They do not have quite a "feel" for the properties of different words, such as formality - informality, modern - old-fashioned. Also, it feels like they get hung up on different words and literal explanations rather than being able to explain complex situations themselves independently. I do not mean that it is bad to remember terminology, or short, proper definitions, but it becomes absurd when the focus often is to remember a certain syntax. This possibly works for some of the easier exam questions ("Define gravitational potential.") but certainly screws up later on  

I'm still fairly convinced that multilingualism can be successful, and I'd even prefer to raise bilingual kids. The main reason is the one mentioned earlier in the thread, about how bilingualism helps to increase language (and cultural) awareness. It would be important, though, that it was clear that one of the languages was to be the "main one." That would serve as a connection with the kids' set "first country," most likely my country, and not some unstable place where I do not think they would be fully able to assimilate, or completely safe. I hope I don't sound like a fascist or something, but some things I have seen have really scared me.

[meh]

I think bilingualism is generally good, as there are so many languages spoken out there by so many people, thus knowing more than one language means you can reach more people.  I guess it could weaken how strong your first language is, but I don't think it's substantial enough to outweigh the positive effects of another language.  It lessens the language barrier between people and gives greater unity to a nation.

[Tilia]

I do think it's important to practising both your languages. One of my friends is born in the Netherlands, came to Sweden when she was 6 and now she studies English and German  in school. She says that she's not bilingual, she is more "double half-lingual"  

[Ruan Chun Xian]

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But sometimes being multilingual is a tad disadvantageous, because at times you can't find the word to express what you mean in the language you are talking in, in that particular moment, and feel like saying the same word in a different language but obviously you can't because the other person won't understand.

Point taken.

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I do think it's important to practising both your languages. One of my friends is born in the Netherlands, came to Sweden when she was 6 and now she studies English and German in school. She says that she's not bilingual, she is more "double half-lingual"

Yeah my Vietnamese used to be horrible but then for the last two years I've been translating news from English>Vietnamese for an entertainment website/forum and it's improved considerably.

[Tilia]

Ruan Chun Xian, on Apr 19 2009, 10:53 AM, said:

Yeah my Vietnamese used to be horrible but then for the last two years I've been translating news from English>Vietnamese for an entertainment website/forum and it's improved considerably.

How ambitious

[1-2-3]

KWB, on Apr 17 2009, 12:56 PM, said:

So, we have the English only position believing that english should be the main language in english speaking countries, its a national identity.  But what is the position behind bilingualism? Is it a loss of identity? Or is it a gain of another culture?

For me it is a gain of another culture as it is for my fellow IB-ers.  Not only do we have the peruvian culture but we have the british culture due to our teachers.

What do you think? Is it good to be bilingual? Or is it bad to be bilingual?

I'm more fluent in English than I am in my own mother tongue.
& I am also fluent in 2 other languages.

For me, learning a language helps gain understanding of another culture as compared to taking away the understanding of your own culture.

That's kind of like saying that learning math would take away your understanding of Biology...

Edited by 1-2-3, Apr 19, 2009 - 20:53.

[eskimotaro]

I think bilingualism is necessary for people to deal with the globalisation that's becoming more and more a part of everyday life. I have a feeling that in believing that everything will become available to them in english, some people become ignorant and refuse to deal with anything that involves a foreign language they don't understand. I still think that  it's better to experience things first hand. Plus the being immersed in a different culture is a really eye opening experience, I've heard the saying "A person that knows one language lives 80 years, a person that knows two lives for 160." Not to be taken in the literal sense of course, but by speaking two languages and living in two very different communities (Vietnam and Australia), I have learned a lot of things that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Edited by eskimotaro, Apr 21, 2009 - 12:50.

[Tilia]

1-2-3, on Apr 19 2009, 09:52 PM, said:

I'm more fluent in English than I am in my own mother tongue.
& I am also fluent in 2 other languages.

For me, learning a language helps gain understanding of another culture as compared to taking away the understanding of your own culture.

That's kind of like saying that learning math would take away your understanding of Biology...

I don't think the language itself contributes that much to understanding of another culture, even though it's interesting from a philosophical point of view.

[Haney]

It s the best thing ever- especially in today's society.
I wish i could speak 7 languages or more - right now I speak 2 and am learning 2

[Haney]

KWB, on Apr 17 2009, 05:56 PM, said:

So, we have the English only position believing that english should be the main language in english speaking countries, its a national identity.  But what is the position behind bilingualism? Is it a loss of identity? Or is it a gain of another culture?

For me it is a gain of another culture as it is for my fellow IB-ers.  Not only do we have the peruvian culture but we have the british culture due to our teachers.

What do you think? Is it good to be bilingual? Or is it bad to be bilingual?

I agree with everything you 've said, but I wish the language option was a bit wider in Aus/ my school . not that i don't like them, but mandarin or jap would have been nice.

[ibapiggie]

i think any multilingualism is wonderful
i only speak English and my foreign language is Latin and doesn't really count, but most lot of my classmates speak multiple languages. they'll speak English, their foreign language, and a lot of them will have another native language. to be honest, I'm kinda jealous.   i think that anyone who speaks more than one languages has infinitely many more opportunities for understanding and succeeding in life than do those who are limited by their single language like i am.