Diploma or Certificate for Ivy League?

[ssansari]

So I have not yet entered IB but will be doing so next year, and I have a few questions.

I am a very dedicated student and am willing to study hard, so workload is not too huge an issue. My dream school is Harvard Law. I want to know if Universities like Harvard really care whether you take the full diploma program or just go for the certificates. If i go for the certificates, I can easily do more extracirriculars, but I am planning on volunteering, doing Model UN, and possible tutoring either way. What would you recommend? What sort of a difference is there in the workload? Do universities even care if you DO take IB? I am very serious about law, and am willing to do anything to succeed. Note: I am in Canada. If in the program i would take:

ELA up to 30/35 HL

Up to Social Studies 30 HL

Up to Math 31 SL

Chem 35 HL

Bio 30 SL

TOK of course + CAS, Extended Essay etc.

French 30 (I dont think im good enough for 31)

if i take the certificates, I would probably drop LA and French

So please reply!

I hope you all did well on your exams

[sweetnsimple786]

MIT's my dream school, so I've been dabbling into that somewhat.

There are two sides you should consider:

IB shows the big wigs (AKA ivy league schools) your work ethic and how hard a work load you can handle. We don't get credits for our IB classes, no matter how we do on exams. For MIT, there's a suicide class you have to take before or during your first semester, I believe. It talks about time management and balance and where you can get help, etc. However, IB students are exempt from this class because they figure we have an idea of what we're getting into with the coursework. I don't know that they offer the exemption to certificate holders.

If you took this same ideology and extended it to a student's overall application, the school will see in a certificate student the desire to do IB but not the capability to carry it out all the way through. IB classes aren't difficult separately, but when you add them all together plus the TOK, CAS and EE that are uniquely IB, it's suddenly much more difficult. If you can explain your desire to do IB and your need to balance your cirriculars like model UN and volunteering, then I think it's just as good if not better than doing the full diploma program. However, you have to show the college that you're passionate about whatever extracirrics you choose.

That was me trying to be objective.

Personally, I say do IB all the way. There are unseen benefits You're still going to have time to do extracirrics with IB. Perhaps they'll be limited, but it all depends on how you manage your time. If you start the year thinking "Well I'm not going to have enough time to do all that I want," you're limiting yourself. Perhaps you will be able to figure what is really important in your life. I can understand the need to volunteer because it looks good, but spend time on an activity (which may very well be some type of volunteering) that you're (once again) passionate about.

[flsweetheart422]

I agree that you should stick it out and do IB if you want to get into any of the Ivy League schools. However if you're aiming Ivy, I hope you're academically qualified. You will need to be in the top 3-5% of your graduating class, have nearly perfect SATs, and a sparkling GPA/Predicted Grades if you even want to have a chance at getting in. Because frankly, if you don't have those you're screwed. If you do have those, you aren't guaranteed to get in either, but you have a better chance than the random kid who will get 35 diploma points and will be automatically rejected. If you want to get in you better hope that your extra curriculars, miniority status, and personal resume go along with what the university is looking seeking for their incoming freshmen class.

Long story short, its tough, but possible. Good luck.

[sweetnsimple786]

I agree that you should stick it out and do IB if you want to get into any of the Ivy League schools. However if you're aiming Ivy, I hope you're academically qualified. You will need to be in the top 3-5% of your graduating class, have nearly perfect SATs, and a sparkling GPA/Predicted Grades if you even want to have a chance at getting in. Because frankly, if you don't have those you're screwed. If you do have those, you aren't guaranteed to get in either, but you have a better chance than the random kid who will get 35 diploma points and will be automatically rejected. If you want to get in you better hope that your extra curriculars, miniority status, and personal resume go along with what the university is looking seeking for their incoming freshmen class.

Long story short, its tough, but possible. Good luck.

I agree, but I disagree as well.

One of my peers just told me that he got into Yale and Princeton with his 27 (out of 36) on his ACTs. That's not a very good score at all, yet they took him. So while admissions officers may take a chance with you if you aren't the elusive perfect student, your odds are much, much slimmer, as flsweetheart422 said. Also, hundreds of valedictorians (highest grade-point-average in the school) apply to Ivies and still get rejected, as she said above. Also, being a minority might help, but it might not. I'm brown, so I really can't use my ethnicity to try to diversify let's say MIT.

Honestly, the worst thing you could do is give up hope. Please don't run off with my words, disillusioning yourself that the task will be hard. It's going to be super-mega-insert.hyperbole.here-hard, but you don't have to be perfect. I get offended whenever someone tries to paint a picture of the ideal applicant because he/she is nonexistent. Just take what you got and run with it

[bohemian03]

Well I believe you need at least a gpa of 3.5. Many students with perfect gpa, SAT/ACT scores, and extracurriculars get rejected so it's all about being unique and what you can bring to the university.... which is tough of course.

I personally think IB certificates and AP would be better for an Ivy League because from my understanding, ivy leagues do not care if you take the full IB or not. Then why not take IB certificates and AP and get good grades on top of the extracurriculars you can do? From my school, two students who did the full IB diploma got into Princeton, Yale, and UPenn. However, two students who took IB certificates and AP got into Cornell, Johns Hopkins, and Northwestern.

So I guess if your school does not offer AP then take full IB but if your school DOES offer AP I would suggest IB certificates and APs. (You have the flexibility to take more challenging classes!)

[faith]

The advice many admission officers give is to take the most demanding curriculum offered in your school so if I were you I would choose to take the full diploma, unless you are sure that you won't be able to keep up with all the work involved (CAS, TOK, EE, etc.)

Because the ivy league colleges at many academically qualified applicants every year, many other factors play a role in the admission process, as mentioned already by sweetnsimple786. I think a very important thing is to show the colleges who you really are- there is no point in playing netball for two hours a week just for the sake of your college application if you hate netball. Things such as personal statements and recommendation letters are really important too.

Best of luck!

[Forester]

One of my peers just told me that he got into Yale and Princeton with his 27 (out of 36) on his ACTs. That's not a very good score at all, yet they took him.

You are pointing out one isolated case, while flsweetheart422 is generalizing on all cases (which is more valid here).

Edited May 23, 2009 by Forester

[ssansari]

Hahah okay thank you all for the great replies

Unfortunately there is no AP at my school so Full IB it is! And no, i am very academucally qualified but just need ro work on time management with a heavier courseload. I understand what you mean though, and absolutely even the best of the best have difficulty in the Ivy League. I am quite passionate about my ECs, especially Model UN and Debate, and i hope it will stand out to the counselors. Thanks again, and please add any other ideas you may have

I am the oldest sibling of an immigrant family so i hve nobody else whose been to higj school here to tell me about this stuff. And friends often distort information to make life easier than it is, so this site is my source.