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Genius vs. Hard Work


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What's more important? This is something that has badgered me for a long time. Especially for the sciences and math, I feel like I am exerting myself much more than many of my classmates and yet some of their results are much better than mine. I know someone who is extremely talented at math. He never makes a deliberate attempt to study but is able to score high because his brain is literally a sponge for math; he assimilates everything in class with ease and is able to apply that knowledge almost effortlessly when it comes to the IB questions where most would have some problems with thinking critically.

To me, a lot of people say that hard work is all it takes. I still believe that hard work will generally lead to success, of course. At the same time, though, do you really think that someone of average intelligence will be able to achieve the same results as someone who is naturally gifted at something if that person of average intelligence truly exerts themself?

Is there a limit to which someone can exert themselves? I mean, the brain is an organ just like any other. There are many people who train hard and long for a sport but will never make it to the Olympics because their physical limit is not at that level. Do you guys think that intelligence work in the same way?

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To me, a lot of people say that hard work is all it takes. I still believe that hard work will generally lead to success, of course. At the same time, though, do you really think that someone of average intelligence will be able to achieve the same results as someone who is naturally gifted at something if that person of average intelligence truly exerts themself?

Yes. Unfortunately, to reach the same results, one person will have to expend much more effort than the other.

Is there a limit to which someone can exert themselves? I mean, the brain is an organ just like any other. There are many people who train hard and long for a sport but will never make it to the Olympics because their physical limit is not at that level. Do you guys think that intelligence work in the same way?

Yes, again. This limit might not be reached during your stay in IB, but maybe, university - be it undergrad, grad, post-grad studies, etc. I know a guy who was achieving pretty much the same math grades as me in grade 9. We both took HL Math, and while I fluctuated between 6 and 7, he was pretty grafted into the 6 range. Eventually, I think I achieved a 6, but considering how hard working this guy was and how lazy I generally am... I think he deserved more than me. :)

This is only one isolated case though. There are probably a thousand counter-cases.

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I'd say, from my own experience, that in most subjects people who work the equal amount generally get pretty much the same grades. Of course there will be some exceptions, eg if you find it very hard to remember things History will naturally be trickier, but I think by developing good studying techniques even this disadvantage is pretty minute.

However, in Mathematics and Languages some people indeed do definitely seem naturally better than others. Still, it is very hard to say what exactly is causing these. They might be because a person is very gifted or because, for example, of extremely small differences in talent combined with general interest and therefore developing the skills needed in the subject area since they were very small. In my opinion the latter is more likely, but there is really no way to tell - it really goes down to the whole nature versus nurture thing...

Edited by Cynthia
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I'd have to say that it really depends. Obviously, everything you do, whether it's IB, normal school, or real life, will require some amount of work. For most people, if you do nothing, you should expect to receive nothing good in return. However, for other super geniuses who already know and understand everything beforehand, it's obviously different. For example, I've seen a lot of instances where Student A studies hard for a test while Student B barely even cracks open his textbook, and Student B ends up with a higher mark than Student A even though Student B barely did anything. This definitely shows how some people are "geniuses;" success with little work.

On the other hand, IB definitely has good ways for disproving "genius" through things like IAs. Take the math portfolios for example: they'd require the committment that Student A from the last example has, yet would also require the intelligence that Student B has. If Student B barely does anything but comprehends everything in the portfolio and Student A works many, many hours on it, perhaps initially struggling with the questions but then later procuring something with good explanations and sound reasoning, it's more probable that Student A will receive a higher mark than Student B in that regard.

In the end, I think that IB is definitely made for "well rounded" individuals who are willing to work and at a certain degree of intellectual level.

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Well, i read an article in the IB world magazine recently (i think it was recent, at least. Or... wait, is that even the name of the magazine? :P)

Anyhoo, the article basically clarified the usual 'stereotypes' associated with an IBDP. One of the things covered was that the IB was for exceptionally intelligent and talented individuals. The article said this is not the case, and that the IB is basically structured to test not only a person's intellect but also their planning, and time management skills. I.E, hard work. As far as IB goes, you don't need to be the class's topper to reach a 40, just loads and loads of effort, and QUALITY work. not quantity. Ofcourse, you DO need to be a little above average to do well in the IB. :P

But then again, I myself am guilty of being one of those who hardly ever work, or put in that little effort in the last minute, and still manage to scrape a 5 at the least where as people in my class who do regular work get scores below me. Some do.. Not all. but i do know for a fact (atleast i'd like to think) that if i did work hard i would do much much much better. Perhaps even 7s all throughout. But it's easier said than done, huh. :P

But then, it's also a question of the person's working style. Lets say, someone as lazy as me, will work the way he/she works and get the grades they deserve for that much of work. Ofcourse, a smarter person, with the same amount of work put in, could probably do better. And a person with a lesser ability to grasp would probably have to work much longer hours to get the same grade. So it completely depends on the individual.

Also, Geniuses... when they build on their already freakish-ly outstanding brains, turn out the world's greatest scientists/mathematicians/etc. One cannot expect someone like me to become as great as well, newton, or einstein, or Gauss, no matter how much hard work i put in. Or maybe i can, if i could live a few hundred years, and spent every single minute of every single day practicing math, or researching!

So again, it depends completely on the person, and their capacity and working styles. You cannot judge a person's ability by the amount of work they put in. As far as i'm concerned, ability cannot be measured. IQ tests are inaccurate! (and no, i didn't score badly in one, and hence am still bitter about it. :P)

So when it comes to Genius Vs. Hard work, i think it entirely depends on the situation. When it comes to discovering a cure for cancer, i'd say genius. When it comes to scoring 7s in IB IAs, i'd say hardworker. :D

And that's my 2 penny's worth. :)

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Both are important. You might study a lot for maths, but when it comes to the test, you need to the applicaiton skills and apply what you know to new situations. Also, people with subjects like languages A1, philosophy, maths HL might not study much, since these subjects aren't really about memorizing, while those who have biology, history and languages ab inito, simply have to study.

When I was in 7th - 9th grade, I hardly studied at all and still ended up with 305 points out of 320, while other people in my class struggled and still didn't do very well. My German teacher said that I had a filter in my head, where everything I read and heard got stuck :P

So, it does depend on how good memory you have, how good you are at planning your time, study techniques and so on.

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Both are important, obviously.

But if you had to live with only one and drop the other, I would have to go with...genius

I hard work is always the key to success, but subjects like ToK you just simply have to sort of get.

If you are one of those types which relies on hard work, I don't think you'd get too far.

Also, if you are a genius, someone else can always push you to do well, like your teachers and parents.

Overall, I don't care if I didn't have to work for my gift, because results are results at the end of the day.

Plus, in reality, everyone can learn to work hard, but not everyone can learn to be a genius.

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Hard work.

Even though both are very important, hard work edges out genius any day of the week. In my classes I'm the go to guy if someone needs help on an assignment.. most of the time lol (except for English and History :P ) And I can tell you that nearly everyone of my classmates believe I'm getting amazing grades, when in reality, I'm not. I'm a procrastinator who would rather not put time and effort into an assignment because I rather be distracted. (much like right now). If I were to put as much effort as the top ranked student in IB class, I would seriously embarrass him/her. Well not completely but yeah, it would be a no contest. Being naturally smart won't help you as much as you would like to believe. You seriously need to put effort, of course you do have the advantage of putting less effort than the next student. :D

Edited by Snabes
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its hard to say really, i think that the only limit to intelligence is how much effort you're willing to put in. i don't think there is an actual limit or capacity, it's just that some have THAT advantage in certain areas which makes them seem like a genius (which they probably are). So, for me, if you're not a genius in that area, it just means your going to have to put alot more effort than that genius (obviously). Varying on how much of a genius that genius is in that area, it's difficult to comment on whether someone will be able to achieve the results. I'm not saying it's impossible (prove me wrong!) but it'd take a ridiculous amount of effort.

So, hard work is the key to getting anything (something that i'm seriously lacking at the moment)and anyway, who cares about what everyone else gets. In the end, aren't you just competing against yourself and trying to do the best YOU can?

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Sure intelligence is limited.

Ultimately it's genius, not effort, in my opinion. You can be 100% genius and get 45, but you can't put in 100% effort and get more than 40 without a healthy dose of genius alongside it.

Effort is nothing compared with understanding. Effort is an attempt to achieve understanding by forcing it into your brain, but that doesn't really solve anything-- and you still hit a natural limit.

The IB is alright for people who can put in effort, but kinda pointless to take it and do mediochrely, when you can achieve properly with effort in other qualifications. 'Natural gift' or whatever changes an individual's situation so much that I hardly see how it can be anything other than the key factor. No amount of effort makes up for it.

If you say that hard work beats genius, you assume that all genii are endemically lazy. The whole point of a genius is that they can achieve with hardly any work what a hard working person can achieve either with a great deal of work or simply never achieve as they hit an intellectual ceiling.

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I personally believe that Hard Work is more important at the end of the day.

I think being a genius is great, but it won't always work.

Say, for example, a hard working kid and a genius are both taking AP biology.

Now, the genius, because of his "genius" track record would have less will to study, since, you know, he's a genius.

The hard working kid would probably get right into it, and study maybe 3 hours a day.

The end result is that the hard working kid will do better.

I'm not saying that genius types are lazy, but generally they are over-confident and eventually wind up shooting themselves in the foot. (At least in my school)

Although I will acknowledge that in some subjects, such as philosophy and maybe English, the hard working kid may not have a natural talent and therefore won't do as well as the genius, I think the majority of subjects depend on a students discpline- Mathematics, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, History, Languages, Economics...

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Depends on the subject. Generally, in math and english, since it's hard to study for, genius or at least very solid math/writing fundamentals (sorry if you had crappy middle school teachers) are often necessary for a 6/7. For history and science though, where lots of memorization and therefore studying is require, hard work would trump genius most of the time.

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Effort is nothing compared with understanding. Effort is an attempt to achieve understanding by forcing it into your brain, but that doesn't really solve anything-- and you still hit a natural limit.

I second that. I think that study techniques are equally important. For instance, we had our usual test week (tests in all subjects during a week, exam preparation) and I didn't study at all during that week and ended up scoring 7 in all subjects, whereas others studied right before the tests and got less good grades.

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What's more important? This is something that has badgered me for a long time. [...]

--snip--

In school or in life?

With the assumption that you'll have to choose one or the other, not a combination of both. The choices are therefore genius incapable of hard work or an "un-talanted" hard working person...

  • School: Hard work**
  • Life: Genius

... and why:

  • School: Geniuses don't survive at school. They tend to slack off and most teachers don't like them (possibly because of being a threat to their authority due to their exceptional intelligence). Hard workers, on the other hand, is almost always perceived as the best and the ones who put effort. **The exception being, of course, tests & exams.
  • Life: Geniuses get level with hard workers. Both does work, geniuses tend to problem solve faster; laziness tends to make them "invent" solutions that are often more efficient. Both of them accomplishes the task, but geniuses does less work. Thus, genius excels.

But that being said, that really depends on whether there's someone who can watch out for talent somewhere "above" you.

Edited by wikinerd
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  • 1 month later...

I believe that if someone has the determination to do something themselves (for example an individual should choose IB themselves rather than their parents forcing him/her to take it) and are willing to work for it, the individual can pretty much achieve anything. in other words, hard work in my opinion is more than being a genius.

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A lovely question.

There really are no such things as limits. The only limit that exists is yourself, the doubt of what you believe you can achieve. No one is born a genius or an olympian. Although it is true that some cognitive minds can grasp ideas faster or some are born with a better streamlined body physically, it all takes training and hard work to craft the assets that we have into something genius. Take gymnasts in China, for example. Ever since they are born they are non-stop practicing and practicing so that their body does gymnastics with no effort.

Same idea with the brain.

No one is born knowing how to find a and b in the term (a+b)^20. All humans, even geniuses, learn how to do this.

My point is hard work is how we push our limits. At some point, the geniuses that we know have worked hard so that their limits are farther than ours. I have found that many geniuses I know who slack off in class and are literally playing games actually spend lots of their time studying at home and even sometimes study ahead.

So hard work is more important than genius, because without it, genius cannot exist.

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