Genius vs. Hard Work

[saunders is god]

i agree that all people are born with equal intelligence its just how some use it that matters

Edited August 9, 2010 by saunders is god

[Guest]

Genius is a myth, how well somebody do in any given field is dependent on these variables: Attitude, technique and time.

Even the great young prodigies like Mozart and Capablance became as good as they were because of more than 10000 hours of practice.

If you feel like you ain't getting as much out of your hours as you should, well rule of thumb is that as long as you are bored you ain't learning anything. So as soon as you feel bored revise your attitude and ask yourself the question: what if? To arouse you curiousity. And use and effing SRS, don't go around learning everything twice, once when you were supposed to and once for the exam, it doesn't work. Most of peoples axam revising is actually relearning forgotten things. Don't whine before you have read and applied atleast a couple of good books on study techniques on how to do well. This one for instance: http://www.201thingstodo.com/uploads/What_Smart_StudentsKnow.pdf

Edited August 10, 2010 by Guest

[Grumps]

Genius is actually bad after a certain point, in my opinion. Gladwell found that there is a certain amount of minimum intelligence required to do well in life, but after that it is all circumstance and personal connections. I think being smart makes you less happy and less able to connect to others.

[paullaucm]

Without a doubt, having both talent and being willing to work hard makes one almost invincible. Its almost like being ensured a 7. Sadly it is very rare that you will have both at the same time. And even if you do for one or two subjects, the IB makes it impossible for you to have it in all 6 subjects.

My take is that those who are hard working will ultimately fare better than the pure geniuses if you take the two in absolute. This is because a hard worker shows in his personality that he is willing to work hard and put time into what he does. On the other hand, being a genius shows your intelligence but not the willingness to work nor the ability to work.

If you had a real genius but one who doesn't work at all. And a really average person who is willing to work really really hard. I believe that the hard worker will ultimately triumph. After all, we have the same brain, and although it might take a lot of work to reach the same level, a hard worker displays the necessary qualities for sucess.

[iMedic]

I believe in the 4:4:2 ratio. 40% natural talent, 40% hard work and 20% luck.

I also disagree with the idea that people are born with equal potential because that is quite impossible.

everyone is unique, they all have different capacities. Some may be a genius at art while others at something else.

Environmental factors of course play a role but generally speaking if you do not have talent, no matter how hard you try you will never be as good as those that are gifted.

A good example is Mozart and Salieri. Mozart was a genius while Salieri was a so called 'genius of hard work'. Mozart is morel liked and more well known than salieri. Salieri no matter how hard he tried was not as good as Mozart.

My above statements can be proved scientifically as well. Look that up in Wikipedia if you want

Geniuses i believe can get 7s without trying. Even without willing to or without any motivation, Geniuses will be able to excel which is the what sets them separate from us, the normal people who actually have to study to get good grades

if you disagree please go ahead and say so. I love a good debate

Edited November 9, 2010 by IwannaB

[JustAnotherAsian]

technically it would be a 2:2:1 ratio.

[MLIIB2012]

In my IB class, which is very small, we have a mixture between the geniuses and just hard working. I am sterotyped as the smart asian along with my other friends. Yes, we get better grades, yes, we worry more than the rest, but no, it isn't (at least for me) based my my smartness. I work hard for every darn grade that I get. I see others who put in nothing and get out the same grade as I do when I spend time studying. It drives me nuts but at the same time I am not discouraged to sit there and not try nor study. I build up a strong work ethic which I think will come off as a good thing in the end. Perseverance is an important aspect to those who try really hard and get the same outcome as those who don't try. There will always be those who don't try in society even after college. You just have to learn to deal with it. If you can personally say that you did your best and felt good about it then it is okay regardless of what grade you get. It doesn't matter who got what and how much time they spent. As long as you are satisfied with your effort then that should be good enough. Comparing will only beat you down. I don't like competition, it isn't like the pressure from IB isn't enough..

Without hardwork, you can be nothing!

Hope this helps

[Miraine]

My classmates call me a genius and tend to stereotype me as someone who doesn't give a **** about the program and never works hard for it, partially based on how I act. However, I work hard for my marks (I'm just a terrible procrastinator). I know that "genius" will not get me the marks I want. I believe there is always a point where natural smarts can only talk you so far in IB - a lot of the work is not difficult as much as time consuming, requiring hard work and attention, so it doesn't how well you understood the materials for that math portfolio if you half-assed it because you were too lazy to put in all the proper graphs and show your work.

[belen1234]

lets remember something...

IB programme tries to benefit those who are hard workers.

geniuses can do great in tests, but those that are genius and don't have interest in studying will not do so well on their IA and al those stuff.

Although there are geniuses that are also hard workers those one are really the real GENIUSES.

I would order them like this

1) genius+ hard work

2) hard worker

3) genius

Because, i think, a lazy genius will always be surpassed by a hard worker, because the intelligence of the genius will get to a limit, to his genetic but the hard worker gets his genetics, the things stablished by geniuses in the world and can go always beyond this.

I have a classmate that does well in math but is an addicted to them so he works excercising all day in all assignatures, in my case I love math and I always get the highest mark, but because of sports and stuff like that I can't go excersising all day long like him. Right now he has surpassed me for sure, and he is getting the best marks not only in school but in national levels. Although he is kinda not having a life because his life is math, but this method has gone good for him and he turned from someone good in math to a genius + hard work REALLY believe me.

[Grumps]

I would order things important to great success (Bill Gates/Steve Jobs type stuff), in order of most important to least like so:

Luck

Social Skills and Networking

Hard Work

Intelligence

A certain level of intelligence is required, as well as hard work. But luck and connecting to people (and how your connections interact with luck play out) is what actually gets you places. Luck can make up for a lot of deficit in other areas, and if you have bad luck then no amount of the other stuff will save you. Circumstances out of your control are really what decide much of your life, if you think about it. Social skills is also important as despite what books and TV shows will have you believe, you can't really get far in life if you're unskilled socially (note how I didn't say "unpleasant", being intimidating and commanding is often as useful as being likable), no matter how skilled you are in your field.

Life is like Chessdice. It's where you play a game of chess and then role a die. The winner of the chess game gets +1 to his roll. Highest roll wins. I mean it's not to this extreme but life is very difficult and the range of different actions that bring you closer or farther to your objectives are so complex and difficult, but ultimately your thoughts and actions don't have the greatest impact on your life. Many people can be half as smart as you, 1/10 as hard working, and do a million times better in every way. It's egotistical to believe the kindergarten mantra: if you work hard, you can do anything. It simply isn't true, you don't control that much in life. That's not to say that hard work isn't important. Another way of looking at the previous example of a chess/dice hybrid is that you play a game of chess vs a grandmaster and you don't even get to roll unless you win the chess game.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Grumps

[IBVeryStressed]

I'd rather have the genius. You can force yourself to work harder, you can't force yourself to be naturally smarter (as opposed to more intelligent)

[JustAnotherAsian]

Grumps you a bit off.

Great success does not need, Social Skills, Networking and all those things you mentioned. If you are truly a genius, then you work will be known.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs aren't geniuses, they are looking and just good at what they do.

True geniuses are people like Newton, Da Vinci, and those super skilled Asian physicists.

[Grumps]

@IBVeryStressed: Can you really force yourself to be a harder worker? Wouldn't that ability make you a hard worker by definition? It sounds like an intentional vice, but perhaps people are pathologically unable to work hard. Do you tell people with social phobias to simply "man up"? It doesn't work like that. Can't you maker yourself "smarter"? Can't you study and watch educational shows, can't you practice the types of logic tests that appear on IQ tests? Intelligence isn't a static variable. Don't you think your IQ shifts over the years?

@JustAnotherAsian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan

Do you hear about this guy on the news? I've only heard about this guy as an example of a genius who doesn't succeed despite hard work and intelligence. I'm sure there are lots more. Of course you are going to hear more about the successful people, but there are many intelligent hard working failures. How about all the Indian mathematicians and doctors with 150+ IQ who come to Canada and have to be taxi drivers? That wasn't because they weren't smart or didn't work hard. They were unlucky as hell. If they were lucky enough to be born in Canada or America they would have done better, if they came to Canada knowing important mathematicians they would have done better. Do you see all the ****ty actors on TV? They are there because they know people, because they gave a blowjob to the director, because they are the brother of Cameron Diaz or what have you. Do you think Miley Cyrus would have famous of her father wasn't already known in the business? Maybe, but her chances would have been a lot slimmer.

Leonardo DaVinci was very lucky. His family was too poor to afford art materials or send him to art school. In fact, his father didn't even WANT to send him to art school. By stroke of luck he managed to get an art teacher to pay his family to take him as a student. Luck. Yes, skill played a part, but mainly luck.

Life is luck. Get used to it. Your hard work and intelligence may mean nothing someday. Even if you succeed, your hard work and intelligence may have only played a very small part.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Grumps

[JustAnotherAsian]

Lol your story on Christopher Langan just sort of disproved what you just said, cause he did just go and won 250000 dollars. And as for life being based on luck, rather than intelligence and hard work, I agree with you. But my point is that geniuses, will always find success no matter what.

My definition of genius is someone whose accomplishments are unique and meaningful to the rest of the world.

So yes, I believe that the extremely successful people are geniuses.

KARMA BCH

[Grumps]

I don't understand your argument now.

"I believe that all geniuses are successful"

"I believe that all successful people are, by merit of their own success, geniuses."

"Luck is more important than intelligence in regards to success"

"Intelligent people will be successful regardless of luck"

Are you arguing for the naive layperson bastardization of the concept of karma now?

[bomaha]

In life: Genius

In school: Hard-working

[Proletariat]

This topic got to three pages? Really?

If the OP's desired endgame is "success" as popularly defined, then it's usually both genius and hard work, and rarely one or the other. Very few things are black and white in this world.

[superassification]

Hardwork, for sure, is more important.

Genius is something you cannot control. Either you're gifted, or not.

Hard work is in your control. You decide how much and where to channel it.

Once you discover where you are a genius (because everyone is a genius in some field), your habit of working hard will take you places!

[ninety]

I think hard work is more important than genius.

I would say that I'm of above average intelligence (my IQ is 127), and at school I know many people who are more intelligent than me (I'm talking about the intelligence that they were born with). I could tell just by interacting with them everyday and their intelligence also showed in the cognitive ability tests that our school made us take. I don't consider myself a genius in any way but I think I'm a pretty hard worker.

I have this really good friend, and I know that she's smarter than me. But the problem with this friend is she takes at least a day off school each week simply because she can't be bothered to leave the house (in fact, she was absent today), and she doesn't really take the initiative to study. And what are the consequences of this? I'm consistently doing better than her in class tests, reports and etc. To use a comparison, she's like the rabbit in Aesop's tale.

On the other hand, I have another friend who I think is not too bright. However, he's very hard working. I knew him a few years ago, when he moved to my Maths set from two sets below. He's always studying and he has a very proactive attitude towards his studies. If there's something he doesn't understand, he'll ask others until he finally understands. His grades have been consistently improving, and these days he always beats me in Physics unit tests. He's like the turtle in Aesop's tale.

Also, I know two people in our year who are genii AND hard workers. They're amazing. We did our GCSEs last year and both of them got A* for every single subject that they took.

To me, I think that even if you were born gifted, without the hard work you're as good as someone who's not so bright. If you are a genius, great. You've been given a kick start at birth. But without the hard work, you'll stay at the point where you began. On the other hand, someone who's less bright might have to start from scratch at birth. But if he's always working hard, someday he'll surely overtake the genius. Slow and steady wins the race, after all!

Edited May 11, 2011 by ninety

[Guest Red XII]

I've always believed that everyone was born with the same abilities, thus everyone on this earth has the same capability to succeed in life.

Some people just try harder, and some people just don't put in the effort at all.

I think that this 'effort' factor is affected by your upbringing and your culture, and because we are all diverse, we get the smart people, the average people and the 'dumb' people.

People are definitely not born with the same abilities. Some people are naturally good at certain things. Further, if people are born with the same abilities, you wouldn't see some two-year-olds speaking in complete sentences while others are hardly speaking at all. There is considerable differentiation in children from ages early enough that it is almost certainly due to genetic factors.

As for the larger question of genius vs. hard work, I'm a firm believer that both are extremely important.

A genius that doesn't put any effort into life at all will not get very far, but will get farther than someone of average intelligence who exerts no effort. Someone who is by no means a genius can be extremely successful with enough hard work and luck.

Basically, it all boils down to the idea that those with more natural ability at something will get further with the same amount of work as those with less natural ability. Intelligence is an extremely important factor in many areas of life, so those gifted with extraordinary intelligence will find it much easier to succeed. That said, there's a lot to be said for social and emotional intelligence, without which it's nearly impossible to be successful because there are few ways to truly succeed in life without being able to function well in society and work well with others. It is important to be able to connect with others, especially when it comes to the workplace.

You can see this quite apparently in schools. There are the students who aren't all that intelligent, but who study for hours upon hours and work hard enough to get good grades - sometimes even perfect grades. You can tell they're not as intelligent as some of the other students, though, because they take longer to understand concepts and may have a lot more difficulty with certain subjects. Then there are the students who hardly study (if at all), yet score highly on every test and get high grades without even really trying. There's clearly a lot to be said for the benefit of natural intelligence if some students can start studying the night before and still do better than those who started months in advance. It's quite evident that there's something beyond hard work at play here.

Edit:

To me, I think that even if you were born gifted, without the hard work you're as good as someone who's not so bright. If you are a genius, great. You've been given a kick start at birth. But without the hard work, you'll stay at the point where you began. On the other hand, someone who's less bright might have to start from scratch at birth. But if he's always working hard, someday he'll surely overtake the genius. Slow and steady wins the race, after all!

While that's true if you're comparing someone who works harder but isn't as intelligent to someone who doesn't work as hard but is more intelligent, if you compare two people of differing intelligence who both work hard, the one with higher intelligence will probably be able to achieve more (or at least achieve the same things more easily) throughout life.

I have this really good friend, and I know that she's smarter than me. But the problem with this friend is she takes at least a day off school each week simply because she can't be bothered to leave the house (in fact, she was absent today), and she doesn't really take the initiative to study. And what are the consequences of this? I'm consistently doing better than her in class tests, reports and etc. To use a comparison, she's like the rabbit in Aesop's tale.

The smartest person I know is like this, except worse. He can never be counted on to show up for anything, and when he shows up, he's late. He skips school nearly every day, and his grades definitely suffer as a result. Nevertheless, he is extremely intelligent and quick-minded. When he puts his mind to something, he does well with it, and that's that. I think there's a tendency for some highly intelligent people to simply refuse to exert themselves for things they don't care about.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Red XII