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Aras

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  1. Aras

    Religion vs. Science

    1. "Never teaches wrong facts? uhmm... I doubt it. What about the claim that human is made of clay? what about the claim that God created Earth in 6 days? All of these go against the true facts of science (especially evolution). I think on this point, Emilia1320 & alefal, in the other thread, have both given pretty strong arguments against your claim here 2. Religion is the one that tells only one side of the story, because it claims everything in the absolutist way. Science, on the other hand, does not. In fact, within science itself, there can be many different theories; and the one that correlates best with empirical evidence is picked to become part of the hard science 3. "Islam is all about peace". This point is very controversial. Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran_and_violence . As far as i understand, there are many verses in the quran that shows violence against non-believers. 4. Islam (as a religion) had no role whatsoever to the progress of science. Science has been progressing alone because it has self-correcting mechanism. Now this doesn't mean that there are no scientists that are Muslims. In fact, Muslims have had many contributions to science. However, their contributions are not based on their faiths, but based on their actual conducts of the scientific method. This is similar to the fact that even though Newton was the person of faith, but he made lots of contribution to physics simply because his contributions to physics were not based on his faith 5. To be honest, I don't care about the fact that you're a Muslim and you're interested in maths and physics. This is because it has nothing whatsoever about this debate. For me, the debate is always about which knowledge is right and which knowledge is wrong. And it's clear that the knowledge provided by rationality is more reliable compared to knowledge provided by religion, as you've probably known from TOK Peace To your points:1-Yes, Allah created us from clay, but this doesn't mean we're being created of clay. Qur'an dosn't say 'days' as 24 hours, it says "sita ayam', ayam mean 'period of time' not 24 hours, we humans decided the units and quantities. (That's the problem, you(atheist) have a poor understating of the thing you're opposing.) Evolution: Islam does not refuse evolution as a process of development, but it does refuse the beginning of species the way evolution suggests. Allah is aware of everything happening. He is the "Creator" and the "Evolver". Allah says: "Verily in the heavens and the earth are signs for those who believe. And in the creation of yourselves, and the fact that animals are scattered (through the earth), are signs for those of assured faith. And in the alternation of night and day, and that fact that Allah sends down sustenance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the change of the winds, are signs for those who are wise" (45:3-5). 2- It's because it IS the absolute way. second, it's because science and religion are different! You don't do experiment in religion the way you do in science. (Stop using scientific term for religion for God's sake). 3- "If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge" you call this violence? There're circumstance when you need to be violent. You yourself, if someone attacks your home, tr to hurt your family, would you sit and watch? (well maybe, because science didn't think about that) 4-Once again, you closing your eyes and attacking. sorry to use these words, but please you have a wonderful brain, use it. The purity of Islam drove those Muslim scientists, again, to praise the greatness of Allah. not to use it against Him. 5- I don't need you or anyone to care actually. The point was to make you see that there're religious people who admire science and evidence. (you missed that point either). I personally don't debate to "win", I'll state the facts and leave you with them to decide. As Islam has taught me, I'll only guide. Peace I think here is actually the point. I think the problem is on religions overally, but now let's take Christiniaty and Islam's creation myth into consideration. You say we were created out of clay. Well, I can't go back and see if that is true or not but we can investigate clay, and the human being. Well, the clay is mostly inorganic compounds, while there is maybe some quantities of carbonic acids in some cases it's certainly not enough to form humans. Plus, for amino acids there would have to be nitrogen. Now, I can't tell if clay now is the same than it was back then but again, I don't have to. Human being didn't just become from monkey a human; process was very very slow. And it all, according the most accurate evidence I have, started on the seas.Then creating the universe that at least Christianity speaks about. It goes somewhat like that God says "there is the light" and then light appears. Wait.... Energy out of nowhere? No no... As I mentioned, Allah created us from clay, but it does NOT mean we're being created of clay NOW. He's the Creator and the Evolver. The energy issue; If you were to tell people about the Internet or smart phones 100-150 years ago, they'd think that you were an idiot or something. (I don't mean in any way to use such words to describe you here). The point is, evolution being a fact, or that you can't have energy 'out of nowhere' don't disprove the existence of Allah, in fact, they can be used to describing the power of Him. However, with us evolving and science developing, soon we might be able to explain those 'No no...' issues. P.S. School starts tomorrow and I need to finish my Physics and Chemistry IAs, not mentioning ToK presentation & essay. So I can't follow this thread any longer. I wish you a peaceful life.
  2. Aras

    Religion vs. Science

    1. "Never teaches wrong facts? uhmm... I doubt it. What about the claim that human is made of clay? what about the claim that God created Earth in 6 days? All of these go against the true facts of science (especially evolution). I think on this point, Emilia1320 & alefal, in the other thread, have both given pretty strong arguments against your claim here 2. Religion is the one that tells only one side of the story, because it claims everything in the absolutist way. Science, on the other hand, does not. In fact, within science itself, there can be many different theories; and the one that correlates best with empirical evidence is picked to become part of the hard science 3. "Islam is all about peace". This point is very controversial. Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran_and_violence . As far as i understand, there are many verses in the quran that shows violence against non-believers. 4. Islam (as a religion) had no role whatsoever to the progress of science. Science has been progressing alone because it has self-correcting mechanism. Now this doesn't mean that there are no scientists that are Muslims. In fact, Muslims have had many contributions to science. However, their contributions are not based on their faiths, but based on their actual conducts of the scientific method. This is similar to the fact that even though Newton was the person of faith, but he made lots of contribution to physics simply because his contributions to physics were not based on his faith 5. To be honest, I don't care about the fact that you're a Muslim and you're interested in maths and physics. This is because it has nothing whatsoever about this debate. For me, the debate is always about which knowledge is right and which knowledge is wrong. And it's clear that the knowledge provided by rationality is more reliable compared to knowledge provided by religion, as you've probably known from TOK Peace To your points: 1-Yes, Allah created us from clay, but this doesn't mean we're being created of clay. Qur'an dosn't say 'days' as 24 hours, it says "sita ayam', ayam mean 'period of time' not 24 hours, we humans decided the units and quantities. (That's the problem, you(atheist) have a poor understating of the thing you're opposing.) Evolution: Islam does not refuse evolution as a process of development, but it does refuse the beginning of species the way evolution suggests. Allah is aware of everything happening. He is the "Creator" and the "Evolver". Allah says: "Verily in the heavens and the earth are signs for those who believe. And in the creation of yourselves, and the fact that animals are scattered (through the earth), are signs for those of assured faith. And in the alternation of night and day, and that fact that Allah sends down sustenance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the change of the winds, are signs for those who are wise" (45:3-5). 2- It's because it IS the absolute way. second, it's because science and religion are different! You don't do experiment in religion the way you do in science. (Stop using scientific term for religion for God's sake). 3- "If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge" you call this violence? There're circumstance when you need to be violent. You yourself, if someone attacks your home, tr to hurt your family, would you sit and watch? (well maybe, because science didn't think about that) 4-Once again, you closing your eyes and attacking. sorry to use these words, but please you have a wonderful brain, use it. The purity of Islam drove those Muslim scientists, again, to praise the greatness of Allah. not to use it against Him. 5- I don't need you or anyone to care actually. The point was to make you see that there're religious people who admire science and evidence. (you missed that point either). I personally don't debate to "win", I'll state the facts and leave you with them to decide. As Islam has taught me, I'll only guide. Peace
  3. Aras

    Why don't you believe in God?

    Of course it does matter what kind of knowledge you are spreading!The teachers have the duty to spread the best knowledge mankind has at the moment. If they tell things that go against it that's called lying. We are privileged to educate ourselves. With privilege, we will have also responsibility. With this privilege we should worship education, and have enough source-criticism to not swallow everything that's told to us. Those of us who end up passing onwards education, i.e become teachers / some other way spread knowledge around, should always spread the knowledge that has evidence behind it, teach the most accurate theories mankind has at the moment. Of course theories develope all time, but telling something else than the best we have is just shooting this development on leg. This example about flying unicorn is so seen... So lets take an example about dragon. Let's think that I tell the children that I have a dragon, and other complete bull****. Now who am I? Yes. A liar. Filthy liar. I would say telling that stuff about religions is same thing. Now here my opinion is propably quite biased because I used to belong to religion and fear the God. I was told lies. I didn't have access to the most accurate scientific knowledge back then as a kid, but now I do and now I see better. And could I have arguments on that how doesn't education associate with science. Of course the first education propably doesn't. But the goal of education is to spread the knowledge, and the purpose of science is to gain knowledge. Goes together quite well. Thanks for answering my argument ! And please don't take anything as personal provocation, due my background (religious family, fearing God, all those lies) I have quite strong opinions on this 1- It's not my problem, neither religion's that you didn't have any access to 'the most accurate scientific knowledge'. I've repeated that many time, I'll do it again. My religion Islam (meaning Allah) tells me to ask, to wonder, to explore etc. not to use it against Him, but to praise him. To see how great He is. I love science (Physics and Maths particularly) because it gives you answers, but do you ever wonder why the answers are the way they are? I mean, The reason why things are the way they are. I'm 99% sure your answer is 'they just are', because I know how you think, you've set your mind not to believe that there's a Creator for those answers. Islam is that Peace. Islam is a lifestyle. Islam give answers for most of the questions you have before you go to sleep >> . And yeah, I also want to see 'evidence' when it comes to science. But in religion, you can call all the creations of God (Allah) evidence. I'm sure you find this rather humorous, but try to see and think. Conclusion, it's perfectly fine to be religious and scientific at the same time, as long as you know the reasons why you use the two. P.S. If you have extra time, take a look at Islam during the 800 to 1100 A.D. And maybe a search for the stars found by Muslim etc. #Peace
  4. Aras

    Religion vs. Science

    I'm a Muslim, my religion Islam: 1- Never teaches wrong facts, in fact, it's a duty to pursue knowledge and ask question. Because 'hopfully' they will make you realize how great God 'Allah' is. 2- In fact, I think it's the neo-atheism movements that give a wrong impression of religion telling only one side of the story. 3- Islam is all about peace. Beside many Qur'anic verse, our prophet (pbuh) says: "Allah will not be merciful to those who are not merciful to mankind". The key words are 'merciful' and 'mankind', not only 'Muslims' or 'religious people', but merciful to 'mankind'. P.S. 1- If you want to know the role of Islam and Muslims in science, please do a google search. 2- I'm a Muslim who admires science, I mean, I just LOVE Physics and Maths! #Peace
  5. Aras

    Why don't you believe in God?

    Actually, in hindsight, I think even I would disagree with myself! That's what happens when you write things immediately after the New Year's celebrations! I would like to point out, though, that I did say that 'The more religiously fundamental one is, the more one diverts from this line of thinking', but I guess that doesn't change much. There are a few points I would like to highlight, though. First of all, you're indeed correct - in fact I have lived in Norway all my life until I started at university. 1. I don't consider those who don't believe in god Christian. That's the single most important part of the Christian belief, and I don't think it's fair to say that this particular aspect counters science - yet. Although the merits of god can be dissected and disproved, the existence of a god itself has not. Whether or not it is irrational is in itself not a substantial proof against the existence of god, though a good indicator that its existence is highly improbable. I understand that science values rationality, but there are things considered irrational in the past that are considered rational today (or vice versa), simply because not all facts were on the table. As such, one cannot refute its existence based on perceived lack of rationality alone. 2. Some of my friends treat it more as a culture, but some of them definitely treat Christianity as a proper religion. As for their influences, I honestly don't know, and the answer to your third 'reason' would depend heavily on which friend we're talking about. Some love debates, whilst at least a few of them shy away from too serious discussions. 3. I don't really see the problem with the inconsistency presented by Craig and the introduction of evolution in Christianity - or any other religion for that matter. They're already full of inconsistencies already, one more is not going to do much. In fact, that inconsistency actually brings the religion (or, at least, those who accept evolution) closer to the real world in terms of science, and I think that's welcoming. The Christian church was furiously against describing the world as round before as well. 4. Belief in mysticism can be consistent with philosophy on many levels. There is something called spiritual philosophy which deals exactly with mysticism. I also know for a fact that a lot of people consider the existence of god(s) a spiritual AND a philosophical question, and as such philosophical thoughts play a major role in the religious foundation. Although departing from the more narrow 'philosophy of life' aspect we were discussing, philosophy still plays a role here. 5. I really enjoyed Hitchen's talk, but I get the sense that he's more referring to organised religion. Maybe that's just me, but I'm not a fan of organised religion. Most commonly, it is the organised religion that goes against scientific breakthroughs. Also, I am a bit unsure if religions is less 'moral' than what already exists. I need some more time to think about that. Now, here you got me completely wrong. Religion is a set of chiefly spiritual beliefs, socialism is a political ideology. Just like the fact that Islam and Islamism is far from being the same; Islam is a set of spiritual beliefs, Islamism is a political ideology. Also, although I understand your point, I would argue that socialism in its core is more about the functions of state and politics rather than a life philosophy. It assumes that humans are all equal and that everything should be communal, and builds a political and economic theory that is assumed to result in such a society. Some do religiously believe in socialism, but socialism is not comparable in and by itself to religions. Religion is built not on politics nor economics, but on spirituality. Religion can very well be a barrier to the access to education. Look at how many girls who are deprived of education around the world due to certain religious beliefs, for instance. Or, how many people who are not educated about the evolution theory, because it counter their beliefs. What kind of knowledge? Knowledge is a vast word with many different connotations. If you're open to all kinds of knowledge, you will know that, objectively and logically speaking, all religions are fallacious in one way or another and that it is improbable that a god exists. Islam is not. That's the problem, you have a poor understanding of the very thing you think you oppose. Islam didn't come to tell you 2+2=4, it came to teach you to live in peace, to accept every opinion, no matter how stupid they might be. The education is, or should be searching the knowledge. Developing knowledge. Denying the most accurate knowledge doesn't go well with that. Of course that's not always the case but for those who directly believe their religion's holy writings (I'm now speaking about at least major religions, and most of minor ones) deny the most accurate knowledge about many fields of study.As a Muslim, it's a duty in Islam to pursuit for knowledge.BTW, I think you've mixed science with education. *I don't want to assume, but I think you're an atheist. Because that's what they do 99% of the time.* I don't quite catch what you mean. What kind of knowledge you are spreading then?Are you denying that the education should be bound on the most accurate knowledge? One point for you thou, I'm an atheist. Yay I was right! It doesn't matter what knowledge it is, as long as you're using it for a good reason. And no, I'm not denying anything. What irritates me is people mixing subjects together. Also as I mentioned above, the problem is people have a poor understanding of the things you think they oppose.
  6. Aras

    Why don't you believe in God?

    The education is, or should be searching the knowledge. Developing knowledge. Denying the most accurate knowledge doesn't go well with that. Of course that's not always the case but for those who directly believe their religion's holy writings (I'm now speaking about at least major religions, and most of minor ones) deny the most accurate knowledge about many fields of study. As a Muslim, it's a duty in Islam to pursuit for knowledge. BTW, I think you've mixed science with education. *I don't want to assume, but I think you're an atheist. Because that's what they do 99% of the time.*
  7. Aras

    Why don't you believe in God?

    You're not educated enough if you think religion is a barrier to access to education.
  8. Aras

    HELP! URGENT! IA Design

    Hello survivors! Is it okay if I do calculation in Design section? I have different concentrations as my Independent Variable, and the aim of the IA is to find an unknown concentration using a known concentration of another solution. Using Titration in short. The question again; where should I show the calculations of finding the different concentrations of my IVs? Thanks in advance.
  9. Has anyone heard of Kurdish language? I have Kurdish language as my first language, and I'm in Sweden now. So I'll be studying Kurdish as self-taught. Have you ever heard of a student with Kurdish self-taught? any help about the exams, books, the structure of studying... ANYTHING? Thanks for helping
  10. Hello there! Is there any specific book or book list in English B HL that should be read? I'm reading some books on my own, so I think it'd be better to read IB books. Thanks
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