Football Discussion

[Guest 1529]

But I'm only talking about the defence because it's where they spend most of their time and most of their possession...

[James Hart]

Their defenders are better passers of the ball than many attacking players in big clubs. Pique has probably got better distribution than Rooney.

[Mahuta ♥]

Ooooh why didn't I see this from the beginning, very smart way to move our football discussions from profile comments to actual topic, haha.

I am not going to read all the posts, but I guess I am going to start by saying how amazing, unique, awesome mind-blowing FC Barcelona is.

EDIT: Okay I read some of the posts:

To all of you who say Barca is the best, I agree..'literally' haha. Oh if you guys haven't noticed yet, 1529 is a crazy Real Madrid fan, which explains the comments about Barca. Just so I don't start a big fight, RMCF is a great team with big history, however at the moment, Barca is by far the best team in the world.

Yes Man U and Barca are dominating a lot, and Man U is awesome, however (again I know), when they played against each other, Man U got beaten up pretty bad. I mean 3-1?! When we say the two are dominating a lot these years, you'd expect them to be at least close to each other, but the finals results showed the complete opposite! If Barca won 1-0 or 2-1 or by penalties, I would say yes Man U was on fire! But Barca was playing like they were still practicing or some PlayStation match! I agree Man U was on fire in the beginning which scared me to be honest, but after their goal they went down really badly. To add, they were playing in London so the conditions were much better for Man U, which urges me to ask, is Man U really as good as Barca? If the game was in Camp Nou..well I'll let you imagine how the match would have went.

For me, that's not real football. If you want to really play like men, play direct football such as in English football.

1. You're only saying that because that's the style that makes Barca unbeatable most of the time, especially by Real Madrid. It's the not the style real madrid can deal with.

2. Yeah..well the 'real' football didn't get the english team anywhere with Barca did it? (Talking about Man U (supposedly the best english team at the moment) vs Barca)

[James Hart]

Spot on. Crazy Real supporters

[Mahuta ♥]

Haha, I know right?

I don't really like their football even though I admit is a good one. They basically don't let the opponents play since they keep the ball possession and more than half of that possession is done in their side of the field which is really annoying. After some time, it will make their adversaries freak out and that's when they attack...

My god, that's what makes them very special! The style the tactics they go by is unbeatable! That's my point. There is no rule in football saying you can't do that, so they do it and they should keep doing it. If that style is getting them awesome results and approval from everyone..then I don't think there's a problem. Like I said, you find that really annoying because teams like Real Madrid can't play because they can't take the ball, and even if they did, it's going to be taken away from them too quickly.

[Ezeh]

Man, I'm gunna get sunburnt with all this flaming.

[Guest 1529]

Aahhahaha @Mahuta, you would never show up if I hadn't told you to

But anyway, yes, agreed with everything but there's just one thing:

You should already know from TOK that our reasoning is led by perception which in its turn is subjective. Thus, whatever I said and whatever you said and all say, it's each one's opinion Not saying that one is wrong to say whatever and that's why we are here and I said right at the beginning that I'm stubborn and that I'm a Real supporter lol so live up with that ^^

I don't agree that Barça is unbeatable... Even Bétis (a 2nd division team) beat Barça by 3-1 :| why are they unbeatable...? I don't get it...

And please, don't deny the fact that Barcelona is helped! It deeply annoys me to see people that can't see what happens during the matches! Every time Real played against Barça, they ended up the match with 10 and the same with other big teams o.o so it's not just SOME matches, it's ALL (with big teams, I'm saying). AND, I would like to mention the 1st leg of the CL semis where Real was definitely dominating the match on the second half, having the best chances for goals when suddenly Dani Alves (that (...) ) had the idea to become an Oscar winner and made Pepe (the one who has holding Messi, Xavi and Iniesta down) get a red card. FROM THAT MOMENT, you could actually see the Barça you talk about - quick, possessive and attacking - because until Real was playing its game. Sorry to say this

[Mahuta ♥]

Yeah yeah okay.

Oh please any team has one of those days, and them losing against Betis says there is a big reason. I would definitely have nothing to say if you told me "Barca lost against Real Madrid 5-0"! I mean seriously.

In the past years, Real Madrid lost more matched than Barca did:

1. 2010/2011: 4 losses-2

2. 2009/2010: 4 losses-1

3. 2008/2009: 10 losses-5

4. 2007/2008: 7 losses-9

5. 2006/2007: Real Madrid won the league but still lost more matched than Barca.

6. 2005/2006: 8-6

7. 2004/2005: 9-4

I could go one if you want. That being said, the number of losses doesn't matter thaaat much. Despite all the thigns you mentioned, Barca is still an awesome team. Even without the 'help' you are talking about over and over, Barca would still be better than Real Madrid, at least this year.

[Guest 1529]

Yeah yeah okay.

Oh please any team has one of those days, and them losing against Betis says there is a big reason. I would definitely have nothing to say if you told me "Barca lost against Real Madrid 5-0"! I mean seriously.

In the past years, Real Madrid lost more matched than Barca did:

1. 2010/2011: 4 losses-2

2. 2009/2010: 4 losses-1

3. 2008/2009: 10 losses-5

4. 2007/2008: 7 losses-9

5. 2006/2007: Real Madrid won the league but still lost more matched than Barca.

6. 2005/2006: 8-6

7. 2004/2005: 9-4

I could go one if you want. That being said, the number of losses doesn't matter thaaat much. Despite all the thigns you mentioned, Barca is still an awesome team. Even without the 'help' you are talking about over and over, Barca would still be better than Real Madrid, at least this year.

You can't even compare a team that has been playing together since they're 15y old and a team that has been built this year with players that don't even speak the same language lol and that's why, in the first match, Real was munched by Barça. It had no collective. But now, I'm proud to say that, for me, it's the best team

You'll see next year

I don't care about the losses...? lol I was just saying that Barça is beatable

[Mahuta ♥]

Look what I said again, I said "Most of the time" not "always", there is a big difference.

Let me say this once again: Real Madrid is a great team, I am not denying it, and perhaps next year they'll be the winners and I don't mind that too much, because I know with some improvements they can get back at the top. I am only saying this to not piss of Real Madrid fans and let them know, we, barca fans, appreciate good entertaining football, which is why we adore and love Barca to infinity, haha.

[James Hart]

it doesn't matter how long they have played together for? They are still better!

[Guest 1529]

it doesn't matter how long they have played together for? They are still better!

ahhahahaah It does... and a lot! There's something called team chemistry, you know? And specially with Barça's style of playing it's impossible not to know exactly your teammates and how they move, play and pass the ball. It's not a coincidence, yeah?

and go to marca.com and see how many of you culés say so LOL it's actually the contrary, you know? Culés are more antimadridistas than Barça fans I'm generally speaking

[James Hart]

Yeah but why does that make a difference? I don't understand your point that they've played together for longer. It is a good thing. Real have bought a team that don't work together. Shows that money doesn't buy you wins. I don't understand why you are using the fact that they have played together for ages as a bad aspect.

[Guest 1529]

But who said I was using it as a bad point? I'm actually saying that is what determines the quality of Barcelona's team. I was just commenting upon the 0-5 loss of Madrid against Barça... and they can now

Edited June 13, 2011 by 1529

[Mahuta ♥]

Your constant use of '' is making me laugh, lol.

I believe that that's something Barca uses and depends on, they get an amazing player, one that all teams are desperate to get. However if he can't get along with the rest of the team inside and outside the pitch even though his individual skills are great, he's gone. On the other hand, an amazing player may not be able to play with all the skills they saw in him before, but still gets along with the rest of the team..is a keeper. I am not that sure about my information, but David Villa seems to be getting along with the rest of the players, on the pitch that is.

What amazes me most about Barca is the way they play and understand each other during the match. I've seen many times a player get the ball from the center and go with it until he scores and passing the ball the other players who understand exactly what he means the whole 'take it go away with it, then pass it back to me'. I've seen so many goals scored in that way and it's just amazing. Barca's style of playing is very unique and really really fun to watch. I can't find the right word, but it's something along the lines of coherent?

True, some players in Barca have played together for so long, like Iniesta, Xavi and Puyol, but that's still not the only reason. David Villa seems to be doing great with them even though it's only his first year. This is something that Real Madrid lacks and you can see it when they're playing. Cristiano Ronaldo is an awesome players, but he can't really 'shine' with that style of playing. I think Cristiano Ronaldo would be the kind of player that may get along with Barca players. I think Real Madrid is not ready to have players like Real Madrid just yet.

[Guest 1529]

ahahha sorry

Yes, you're right. But that happens in all clubs lol for example, Van der Vaart was sold because he didn't get a long the Real team. And it's not exactly like that. It's more like adapting players to the style of playing and one thing is to only make David Villa adapt and another thing is to make a whole 22 player squad adapt... it's not easy and that's why I praise so much Real this year. They were magnificent! It takes a lot to build such a team and put them playing so well and with such emotional control and determination in just one year. On time to reach the semi finals of the CL and to win the Copa del Rey... it's too much. Only those who are blind and dumb can say that Mourinho is the worst that could happen to Real Madrid. It's quite the contrary... For the last 6 years, Real hadn't passed the 1/8ths in the CL and hadn't won the Copa for 18 years. And that is against such a good team as Barça.

There you go, facts and not opinions ^^ Barça is good but this football philosophy has been developed since Cruyff which is since the beginnings of the 90s... you can't give all the value to Guardiola as above all, it was Rijkaard who built the team as it is now.

Ronaldo is a player who has demonstrated to be the best in every team he goes by. Andorinhas, Sporting, Man Utd and now Real Madrid. He has written his name on each club's History and plus, he does a lot for the national Portuguese team. All this, Messi hasn't proven yet and will never do it because he won't leave Barça as well as he doesn't have Xavi nor Iniesta in Argentina. This is what Argentinean people don't consider when they hate Messi while he plays for the national team. They see him as the best player ever in football in Barça, who can't do anything for Argentina and then they ask why? Well, there's no Xavi nor Iniesta nor Pedro around him... and the group dynamics is completely different. Messi can't adapt himself to another type of football while Ronaldo has already even played at the defence.

[Mahuta ♥]

I am not giving all the credit to Guardiola nor to Rijkaard only, it's all of them starting from Cruyff like you said who built this style of playing.

Even though this may piss off some people, I can't help but say that Ronaldo isn't as good in Portugal National Team as he was in Man U. He was BRILLIANT in Man U! The fact that Messi is at his best in FCB doesn't mean that without Xavi and Iniesta he's nothing. It just means that those are players that understand him. If there were people who understand his way of playing and get along with it in Argentine National Team he will do great! Messi just needs someone to pass the ball to when he's stuck then have it passed back to continue his attack. I have seen so many time while Argetine played this scenario: Messi gets the ball, runs with it then gets stuck, he passes it to one of the players, he runs forward stand in a very amazing spot and wait for that player to give him back the ball, but that player just messes up the whole attack by not letting go of the ball or making some random shot!

One of the things that make FCBarcelona special is that a player doesn't keep the ball until it's taken from him! If he sense that he's going to lose the ball, it's passed immediately to someone else. I have watched Real Madrid matches, and they would score so many goals if the players were instructed to not keep the ball until it's taken from them! Towards the end of the season, the goal diff between the two was huge! That's only because most of Real Madrid's attack start out very nicely, but they just lose the ball because some idiot doesn't want to pass the ball because he wants to score the goal!

I think FCBarcelona players don't care about their individual benefits as much as they care about the whole team's. (Just so you dont misunderstand this, go read what I said again). Many Real players run for their own titles and don't really care about the others. Something I absolutely loved during the final match, is how the players actually helped Messi to score his first goal in England. They play like a family, it's just fascinating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poDn59tjNVM

Those are Messi's 53 goals this year. Look at 0:43, if it was in Real Madrid, it's very unlikely that player would pass the ball for someone else to score. Also, look how Messi went and stood in the right spot because he knows that there's a possibility Iniesta will need someone to pass the ball to! Same for 1:54. It's just awesome.

I am not saying Real Madrid doesn't have that kind of thing, it does and some of it's goals this year are brilliant, but they're not as brilliant as they were before! Few years back, Real Madrid was a team I used to fear, now it's like "Yeah whatever".

---

Cristiano Ronaldo is an extra-ordinary player under one condition: there has to be players who understand him and pass his the ball, like they do with Messi. Cristiano says:"Barcelona is a fantastic team..fantastic players..it's a dream team", not just for the sake of it, but because he knows that in Barcelona he can shine like he did in Man U because players in Barca know how to play and allow new players to adapt to their style of playing, but onyl when the player himself is willing to change a little in order to adapt, like David Villa (yes he's my favorite player).I think Henry and Ibrahimovic didn't stay long because they just couldn't adapt to that style and get along with players.

[Guest 1529]

Couldn't you, at least, have made the post shorter?? looool

Agreed with everything. But what I'm saying is that a so-called greatest player of all times, shouldn't have the need to have others understanding him and that's why he is called THE GREATEST! otherwise, and it's what people call Barça, it's the greatest TEAM. Messi is undoubtedly skillful but he won't adapt to the players around him in Argentina and that takes a lot of credit out of him. That's the only thing I'm saying

Ronaldo has done a lot for Portugal, considering that Portugal has already gone through it's Golden Era (Luis Figo, Rui Costa, Pauleta, Fernando Couto, etc - all those great players that were individually and collectively awesome), Ronaldo brought the fear back. The fear of playing against Portugal and if it wasn't that stupid idiotic piece of crap of Carlos Queiroz on the last World Cup, I can assure you that Portugal would've won just because of Ronaldo's shape... I don't know if you saw Portugal playing but it was shameful the tactics and all that... and now, it's recovering it's status, fortunately!

That's the only thing I'm saying. Obviously, Ronaldo doesn't do as much as he did for Man Utd or for Real because he's not used to play with the other players but he does much more for the Portuguese team than Messi for Argentina...

[Mahuta ♥]

Haha nope.

I disagree, if you are extremely skilled, but the players you play with are constantly ruining the attack and not giving you the ball at all, you wouldn't seem all that skillfull! There is no such thing as a player not needing the others to understand him because he's the greatest! It's a team sport remember? A good teamwork is what makes football football! Imagine if Ronaldo is never given the ball or if he has the ball and everyone backs off and he remains on his own against the opponent, would he be able to do anything? No!

Yes you are right about last WC, I watched Portugal play hoping to see some good football like their golden era, but it was the complete opposite, I was shocked.

Messi would do as much for Argentine as Ronaldo for Portugal is Argentine players knew how to play like a team for god's sake. This is basic football! You have an awesome scorer, you work and build the attack with him and give him the ball towards the end but stay near him just in case he needs to pass the ball to someone! Argentine players don't do this at all!

The spanish national team won the WC last year for many reason, first being that a lot of the players are Barca players, but also because they understand each other and their team work is just brilliant! A lot of them are Real Madrid and Barca fans (the so called two enemies), but they still play NICELY when playing in the national team, it's like watching Barcelona play!

[Guest 1529]

But what I'm saying is that Messi is too dependent upon Xavi and Iniesta to make their offense flow... that's something you cannot deny. And that's exactly what I'm saying, a player has to have an understand with the resources and tools he has. If he doesn't have a dream team to back him up, he should still try his best to show what he is capable of.

With the rest, I agree lol (with the 2nd para and 4th )