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Is it ethical to eat meat?


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Guest Zoya (aka: ziasha)

I don't get the point of asking people what is ethical or not. For everyone in this world the definition of ethical is different. Even right now in this forum everyone has described ethical in different way. Some about how it links to their religion, their culture, some about the effect it has on animals, some about the side effects of eating meat. Now here we all are fighting (or so it seems) or maybe in a almost heated argument, trying to make each other believe how correct we are. But all of us humans are so stubborn that we never let go of what we believe in. Its quite obvious that the title just asked our opinion "is it", so why is it that here we are proving people wrong. I am here to state my opinion, and it might be weird, but i think everything should be done to a certain extent. Eat meat, no one stops you, but the animal's well being, it having a no painful death, and most importantly the animal should in no way suffer to be presented on our plates. There are a lot of dishes in Europe where geese and ducks are tortured to be made into a delicacy <--- this right here is unethical, SUFFERING, "Foi de gras" should be unethical, because of the way the geese are tortured. When it comes to chicken and pork or such common animals, they're numbers are sooo high, that mostly it doesn't affect them (but again as long as their treated well, and not tortured). I am a vegetarian myself, but i don't believe that eating meat is unethical, cause there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into consideration. I highly think instead of talking about food, its better to think about how ANIMALS are actually going EXTINCT because of POACHING (recently the clouded leopard has gone extinct and so has the black rhino), how animals are tortured for their skin, their valuable items. That topic should make us ponder and actually not only think BUT ALSO ACT AGAINST IT.

Anyways this was my opinion :D and i have no right to make you all agree to it :D Free country, free World

But animals do have right to live, right.. Whether it is painless or painful is t ethical to take some creature's life. You have a point, imagine there is a alien whose staple diet is human, they kill humans but won't humans have their right to live. Unfortunately same thing is happening to animals, but you have a point.

I get your point and i completely understand. But look at it this way, is these aliens can devour us, means they are stronger than us. This mean "survival of the fittest". In the animal world the weaker 1 gets killed, and the way they are killed is a sight. Do u know hyenas eat their victim alive. Animals are accustomed to it, its a way of like for them. In a way we are weaker compared to death, hence it takes us for whatever reason it maybe, survival of the fittest.

Edited by ziasha
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I don't get the point of asking people what is ethical or not. For everyone in this world the definition of ethical is different. Even right now in this forum everyone has described ethical in different way. Some about how it links to their religion, their culture, some about the effect it has on animals, some about the side effects of eating meat. Now here we all are fighting (or so it seems) or maybe in a almost heated argument, trying to make each other believe how correct we are. But all of us humans are so stubborn that we never let go of what we believe in. Its quite obvious that the title just asked our opinion "is it", so why is it that here we are proving people wrong. I am here to state my opinion, and it might be weird, but i think everything should be done to a certain extent. Eat meat, no one stops you, but the animal's well being, it having a no painful death, and most importantly the animal should in no way suffer to be presented on our plates. There are a lot of dishes in Europe where geese and ducks are tortured to be made into a delicacy <--- this right here is unethical, SUFFERING, "Foi de gras" should be unethical, because of the way the geese are tortured. When it comes to chicken and pork or such common animals, they're numbers are sooo high, that mostly it doesn't affect them (but again as long as their treated well, and not tortured). I am a vegetarian myself, but i don't believe that eating meat is unethical, cause there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into consideration. I highly think instead of talking about food, its better to think about how ANIMALS are actually going EXTINCT because of POACHING (recently the clouded leopard has gone extinct and so has the black rhino), how animals are tortured for their skin, their valuable items. That topic should make us ponder and actually not only think BUT ALSO ACT AGAINST IT.

Anyways this was my opinion :D and i have no right to make you all agree to it :D Free country, free World

But animals do have right to live, right.. Whether it is painless or painful is t ethical to take some creature's life. You have a point, imagine there is a alien whose staple diet is human, they kill humans but won't humans have their right to live. Unfortunately same thing is happening to animals, but you have a point.

I get your point and i completely understand. But look at it this way, is these aliens can devour us, means they are stronger than us. This mean "survival of the fittest". In the animal world the weaker 1 gets killed, and the way they are killed is a sight. Do u know hyenas eat their victim alive. Animals are accustomed to it, its a way of like for them.

You are right in the way that survival is of fittest but we are civilized aren't we. It is just like bullying a weaker ones and suppressing them . And how can you prove that animals are accustomed. We are humans who are following humanity. Survival of fittest is only for the harshest and for the uncivilized creatures.

And by the way you last time really made me quit the games and this time you can't simply counter my argument. :D

Edited by akash jishnu
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Guest Zoya (aka: ziasha)

I don't get the point of asking people what is ethical or not. For everyone in this world the definition of ethical is different. Even right now in this forum everyone has described ethical in different way. Some about how it links to their religion, their culture, some about the effect it has on animals, some about the side effects of eating meat. Now here we all are fighting (or so it seems) or maybe in a almost heated argument, trying to make each other believe how correct we are. But all of us humans are so stubborn that we never let go of what we believe in. Its quite obvious that the title just asked our opinion "is it", so why is it that here we are proving people wrong. I am here to state my opinion, and it might be weird, but i think everything should be done to a certain extent. Eat meat, no one stops you, but the animal's well being, it having a no painful death, and most importantly the animal should in no way suffer to be presented on our plates. There are a lot of dishes in Europe where geese and ducks are tortured to be made into a delicacy <--- this right here is unethical, SUFFERING, "Foi de gras" should be unethical, because of the way the geese are tortured. When it comes to chicken and pork or such common animals, they're numbers are sooo high, that mostly it doesn't affect them (but again as long as their treated well, and not tortured). I am a vegetarian myself, but i don't believe that eating meat is unethical, cause there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into consideration. I highly think instead of talking about food, its better to think about how ANIMALS are actually going EXTINCT because of POACHING (recently the clouded leopard has gone extinct and so has the black rhino), how animals are tortured for their skin, their valuable items. That topic should make us ponder and actually not only think BUT ALSO ACT AGAINST IT.

Anyways this was my opinion :D and i have no right to make you all agree to it :D Free country, free World

But animals do have right to live, right.. Whether it is painless or painful is t ethical to take some creature's life. You have a point, imagine there is a alien whose staple diet is human, they kill humans but won't humans have their right to live. Unfortunately same thing is happening to animals, but you have a point.

I get your point and i completely understand. But look at it this way, is these aliens can devour us, means they are stronger than us. This mean "survival of the fittest". In the animal world the weaker 1 gets killed, and the way they are killed is a sight. Do u know hyenas eat their victim alive. Animals are accustomed to it, its a way of like for them.

You are right in the way that survival is of fittest but we are civilized aren't we. It is just like bullying a weaker ones and suppressing them . And how can you prove that animals are accustomed.

And by the way you last time really made me quit the games and this time you can't simply counter my argument. :D

How do i know they're accustomed to it, Because i am 24*7 on nat geo or animal planet. And if its how life is for them, its obvious. We call our selves civilized, while we ourselves take life of our own kind, we have wars, we have discrimination, we have starving countries, animals going extinct, globalization, greed, materialism, thirst for power... so you call us civilized ahhaahaha this is a joke :D

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I don't get the point of asking people what is ethical or not. For everyone in this world the definition of ethical is different. Even right now in this forum everyone has described ethical in different way. Some about how it links to their religion, their culture, some about the effect it has on animals, some about the side effects of eating meat. Now here we all are fighting (or so it seems) or maybe in a almost heated argument, trying to make each other believe how correct we are. But all of us humans are so stubborn that we never let go of what we believe in. Its quite obvious that the title just asked our opinion "is it", so why is it that here we are proving people wrong. I am here to state my opinion, and it might be weird, but i think everything should be done to a certain extent. Eat meat, no one stops you, but the animal's well being, it having a no painful death, and most importantly the animal should in no way suffer to be presented on our plates. There are a lot of dishes in Europe where geese and ducks are tortured to be made into a delicacy <--- this right here is unethical, SUFFERING, "Foi de gras" should be unethical, because of the way the geese are tortured. When it comes to chicken and pork or such common animals, they're numbers are sooo high, that mostly it doesn't affect them (but again as long as their treated well, and not tortured). I am a vegetarian myself, but i don't believe that eating meat is unethical, cause there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into consideration. I highly think instead of talking about food, its better to think about how ANIMALS are actually going EXTINCT because of POACHING (recently the clouded leopard has gone extinct and so has the black rhino), how animals are tortured for their skin, their valuable items. That topic should make us ponder and actually not only think BUT ALSO ACT AGAINST IT.

Anyways this was my opinion :D and i have no right to make you all agree to it :D Free country, free World

But animals do have right to live, right.. Whether it is painless or painful is t ethical to take some creature's life. You have a point, imagine there is a alien whose staple diet is human, they kill humans but won't humans have their right to live. Unfortunately same thing is happening to animals, but you have a point.

I get your point and i completely understand. But look at it this way, is these aliens can devour us, means they are stronger than us. This mean "survival of the fittest". In the animal world the weaker 1 gets killed, and the way they are killed is a sight. Do u know hyenas eat their victim alive. Animals are accustomed to it, its a way of like for them.

You are right in the way that survival is of fittest but we are civilized aren't we. It is just like bullying a weaker ones and suppressing them . And how can you prove that animals are accustomed.

And by the way you last time really made me quit the games and this time you can't simply counter my argument. :D

How do i know they're accustomed to it, Because i am 24*7 on nat geo or animal planet. And if its how life is for them, its obvious. We call our selves civilized, while we ourselves take life of our own kind, we have wars, we have discrimination, we have starving countries, animals going extinct, globalization, greed, materialism, thirst for power... so you call us civilized ahhaahaha this is a joke :D

Yes I completely agree with you Ziasha :D. I don't hunt animals, I donate food,cloth and toys to the poor, built a cow shed, not interested in money etc.. So I am civilized :D you can't deny that atleast.

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Ha civilized... I know when I go to a larger metropolis, everyone is rude and impersonal ( I've actually been purposefully shoved out of the way, not a nudge with a shoulder, but actually two hand on my back pushing me to the side. No one even bothers with the real culture museums, art galleries, operas. All too expensive... I've met much more civilized people in low density rural areas, they have to be as you have to have a functioning community to survive, so everyone gets along!

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Oh my God, this is another one of those "you know you're an IB student" because the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was back to the lesson on practice of mass producing animals for consumption's lesson in Bio SL....I still even remember the chart of pro-meat vs anti-meat. Funnily enough, my Bio teacher is a vegan and the first list of reasons was for anti-meat

Pro-meat: Animals were made to be consumed, you can't get all nutritions from plants and a couple others

Anti-meat: conditions, animals are sentient beings as well, you shouldn't just raise animals just to kill them.

My math teacher is also a vegan, he says one day, he looked at a chicken he was eating and thought about how a couple days ago, it was running around and stuff and said he switched to being a vegan. Me? I still eat meat, I don't really see anything wrong with it unless the conditions deteriorate to the point where I have to test my meat for diseases before eating it(which, we are getting there).

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Certain plants eat meat. Also, vegetarians are just eating food that belongs to animals. Animals eat plants. We eat animals. Vegetarians may think they're making a difference in the world, but they're just leaving more good stuff for us normal people.

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Certain plants eat meat. Also, vegetarians are just eating food that belongs to animals. Animals eat plants. We eat animals. Vegetarians may think they're making a difference in the world, but they're just leaving more good stuff for us normal people.

So you're saying we should do just as the animals do? That considering we hold the greatest responsibility as a species we shouldn't forge a revolutionary path in the way we live responsibly on this earth? Well then let me get anima skin, lets go hunt some mammoths to extinction!

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If every human on the planet were a vegetarian there would definitely be food for everybody since it is easier to plant vegetables than it is to promote the growth of livestock and to conserve meat or to catch fish. Personally, if I didn't love meat and fish so much I would be a vegetarian myself but I can't imagine myself without meat or fish :P

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If every human on the planet were a vegetarian there would definitely be food for everybody since it is easier to plant vegetables than it is to promote the growth of livestock and to conserve meat or to catch fish. Personally, if I didn't love meat and fish so much I would be a vegetarian myself but I can't imagine myself without meat or fish :P

But there is comparatively less energy in plants than there is in meat, we'd have to consume soooooo much. Think about how often a wolf eats versus how often a deer eats. Wolves hunt every once and awhile, deer must graze constantly just to stay alive!

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Perhaps, but the energy loss is considerable for meat. All the things needed to feed the animal that is going to feed 1 family could have gone directly to feeding more than 5 families (approximate number, it's out there and has to do with most of the energy in plants that animals eat becomes heat, not meat). Furthermore the deer analogy is pretty flawed, we have much more food to choose from than the deer that can only digest grass, which itself doesn't contain much energy, but there are plants that gaps the protein and energy gap, often based on fungi or plankton/algea.

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Hey guys, I am a lacto-vegetarian who being a Jain follower, is big on vegetarianism. However, while I congratulate any vegetarians I meet, I do not force others to change their food habits although if the opportunity arises I will like to share some views.

Firstly, reasons to be vegetarian

1) If you eat a BALANCED vegetarian diet, then you will find that there are TONNES of benefits for it, compared to Non-veg foods. Here is a link to a presentation I made last year on this topic. http://prezi.com/ds7iohkxg9ql/vegetarianism-health-advantages-and-problems-to-keep-in-mind/

2)There is a loss of land and people are starving aroung the world. By not eating meat, you will be 1 less consumer and as more and more people turn veg (this will take time but slow and steady wins the race) then producers will HAVE to cut down meat production and will actually use that US 80% of land, not for veggies for CATTLE feeding, but vegies that feed HUMANS! This will mean that more people will be eating healthy foods, won't be obese etc etc and hunger won't be a problem. (Food Distribution is the even bigger problem on the topic of starvation but that's off topic)

3)It reduced animal cruelty.

I admit that eating veggies too is killing, but so is breathing (that kills and produces millions of micro-organisms in every breath) and our very existence kills organisms. We try to reduce this as much as possible, and one way is by attempting to not hurt those with more "senses" and those that feel more in a way. I am speaking from a Jain perspective and I apologize for not having proper knowledge in this.

These are just a few reasons and I know that I will stick to being Vegetarian.

Edited by IBfreakingout!
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If every human on the planet were a vegetarian there would definitely be food for everybody since it is easier to plant vegetables than it is to promote the growth of livestock and to conserve meat or to catch fish. Personally, if I didn't love meat and fish so much I would be a vegetarian myself but I can't imagine myself without meat or fish :P

But there is comparatively less energy in plants than there is in meat, we'd have to consume soooooo much. Think about how often a wolf eats versus how often a deer eats. Wolves hunt every once and awhile, deer must graze constantly just to stay alive!

I am a vegetarian and I do not consume much more if more at all than my non-veg friends. Our food diet is quite different to wolves or deers. We can still gain energy from carbohydrates like Pasta. The only difference is that while you might eat it with minced meat or whatever, I will have the same but with a lot of delicious colorful vegetables.

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If every human on the planet were a vegetarian there would definitely be food for everybody since it is easier to plant vegetables than it is to promote the growth of livestock and to conserve meat or to catch fish. Personally, if I didn't love meat and fish so much I would be a vegetarian myself but I can't imagine myself without meat or fish :P

But there is comparatively less energy in plants than there is in meat, we'd have to consume soooooo much. Think about how often a wolf eats versus how often a deer eats. Wolves hunt every once and awhile, deer must graze constantly just to stay alive!

I am a vegetarian and I do not consume much more if more at all than my non-veg friends. Our food diet is quite different to wolves or deers. We can still gain energy from carbohydrates like Pasta. The only difference is that while you might eat it with minced meat or whatever, I will have the same but with a lot of delicious colorful vegetables.

That may work for you, I can;t vouch for this information because I haven;t seen the stats with my own eyes, but india a country with a large vegetarian population has a huge amount of diabetes compared to any other developing nation in the world due to the people not consuming meat but then instead a variety of grains and grain products such as bread and pasta, not good for your pancreas!(developed countries have that issue for other reasons such as excess of food and processed foods).

We were not made to live on mostly carbs, through our collective ventures in agriculture we just headed down that dangerous path... Its mostly vegetables and some(SOME, NOT EVERYDAY LIKE MOST PEOPLE) meats/fish there is no substitute for that kind of a paleo diet.

Edited by Luka Petrovic
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If every human on the planet were a vegetarian there would definitely be food for everybody since it is easier to plant vegetables than it is to promote the growth of livestock and to conserve meat or to catch fish. Personally, if I didn't love meat and fish so much I would be a vegetarian myself but I can't imagine myself without meat or fish :P

But there is comparatively less energy in plants than there is in meat, we'd have to consume soooooo much. Think about how often a wolf eats versus how often a deer eats. Wolves hunt every once and awhile, deer must graze constantly just to stay alive!

I am a vegetarian and I do not consume much more if more at all than my non-veg friends. Our food diet is quite different to wolves or deers. We can still gain energy from carbohydrates like Pasta. The only difference is that while you might eat it with minced meat or whatever, I will have the same but with a lot of delicious colorful vegetables.

That may work for you, I can;t vouch for this information because I haven;t seen the stats with my own eyes, but india a country with a large vegetarian population has a huge amount of diabetes compared to any other developing nation in the world due to the people not consuming meat but then instead a variety of grains and grain products such as bread and pasta, not good for your pancreas!(developed countries have that issue for other reasons such as excess of food and processed foods).

We were not made to live on mostly carbs, through our collective ventures in agriculture we just headed down that dangerous path... Its mostly vegetables and some(SOME, NOT EVERYDAY LIKE MOST PEOPLE) meats/fish there is no substitute for that kind of a paleo diet.

Can I point out, that being an Indian myself, I can say quite accurately that when we speak of vegetarian diets being healthier...we are talking about BALANCED vegetarian diets. In India you have not seen the amount of OIL, GHEE, Jaggery(or however you spell it) and other such saturated fats are consumed. It is one of the secrets of its deliciousness and that contributes to the diabetes and such problems. Also, since when is meat the main source of carbohydrates? Also, while the majority of India doesn't eat meat, and eats grains, we are major on lentils and legumes which give us enough protein and various other nutrients too. I will admit that vegetarians do have a tendency to have lower Iron levels but if your careful enough and pay attention to what you eat, then that is hardly a problem at all!

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If every human on the planet were a vegetarian there would definitely be food for everybody since it is easier to plant vegetables than it is to promote the growth of livestock and to conserve meat or to catch fish. Personally, if I didn't love meat and fish so much I would be a vegetarian myself but I can't imagine myself without meat or fish :P

But there is comparatively less energy in plants than there is in meat, we'd have to consume soooooo much. Think about how often a wolf eats versus how often a deer eats. Wolves hunt every once and awhile, deer must graze constantly just to stay alive!

I am a vegetarian and I do not consume much more if more at all than my non-veg friends. Our food diet is quite different to wolves or deers. We can still gain energy from carbohydrates like Pasta. The only difference is that while you might eat it with minced meat or whatever, I will have the same but with a lot of delicious colorful vegetables.

That may work for you, I can;t vouch for this information because I haven;t seen the stats with my own eyes, but india a country with a large vegetarian population has a huge amount of diabetes compared to any other developing nation in the world due to the people not consuming meat but then instead a variety of grains and grain products such as bread and pasta, not good for your pancreas!(developed countries have that issue for other reasons such as excess of food and processed foods).

We were not made to live on mostly carbs, through our collective ventures in agriculture we just headed down that dangerous path... Its mostly vegetables and some(SOME, NOT EVERYDAY LIKE MOST PEOPLE) meats/fish there is no substitute for that kind of a paleo diet.

Can I point out, that being an Indian myself, I can say quite accurately that when we speak of vegetarian diets being healthier...we are talking about BALANCED vegetarian diets. In India you have not seen the amount of OIL, GHEE, Jaggery(or however you spell it) and other such saturated fats are consumed. It is one of the secrets of its deliciousness and that contributes to the diabetes and such problems. Also, since when is meat the main source of carbohydrates? Also, while the majority of India doesn't eat meat, and eats grains, we are major on lentils and legumes which give us enough protein and various other nutrients too. I will admit that vegetarians do have a tendency to have lower Iron levels but if your careful enough and pay attention to what you eat, then that is hardly a problem at all!

sorry if i wasn;t clear, yeah carbs don;t come from meat... I'm an econ. kid and even I know that!

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Thats a very interesting debate, one that is more likely to go unresolved forever. My personal opinion, as a Christian, is that it says in the Bible that God gave us all the animals to eat, so I'll eat them.

I don't know where i heard this from, but i remember someone once telling me that in Christianity, God apparently said that when there was hardly any food to go around, perhaps like a famine of crops and thats why He said that... but that originally we were meant to eat veggies and nuts etc

I don't know for sure though as I am not christian and have not read the bible... but i was wondering if anyone knew anything about this.

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Thats a very interesting debate, one that is more likely to go unresolved forever. My personal opinion, as a Christian, is that it says in the Bible that God gave us all the animals to eat, so I'll eat them.

I don't know where i heard this from, but i remember someone once telling me that in Christianity, God apparently said that when there was hardly any food to go around, perhaps like a famine of crops and thats why He said that... but that originally we were meant to eat veggies and nuts etc

I don't know for sure though as I am not christian and have not read the bible... but i was wondering if anyone knew anything about this.

What you're refering to is before man got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Anyway, heres the thing I was talking about:

Acts 10:9-23

9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

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Thats a very interesting debate, one that is more likely to go unresolved forever. My personal opinion, as a Christian, is that it says in the Bible that God gave us all the animals to eat, so I'll eat them.

I don't know where i heard this from, but i remember someone once telling me that in Christianity, God apparently said that when there was hardly any food to go around, perhaps like a famine of crops and thats why He said that... but that originally we were meant to eat veggies and nuts etc

I don't know for sure though as I am not christian and have not read the bible... but i was wondering if anyone knew anything about this.

What you're refering to is before man got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Anyway, heres the thing I was talking about:

Acts 10:9-23

9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

What denomination of christianity do you belong to? It differs from group to group.

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