Is it ethical to eat meat?

[Black Bird Lockheed]

Humans are lucky because they are the dominant species in this planet. Imagine an even more advanced and more powerful creatures would have dominated in this planet and their favorite food is humans. Then at such times peoples must keep thier mouths shuts because animals are really facing such sort of problems with humans. Fittest will survive is too mean and selfish proverb. peace and mutual co existence is the solution to all such problems.

[Luka Petrovic]

Humans are lucky because they are the dominant species in this planet. Imagine an even more advanced and more powerful creatures would have dominated in this planet and their favorite food is humans. Then at such times peoples must keep thier mouths shuts because animals are really facing such sort of problems with humans. Fittest will survive is too mean and selfish proverb. peace and mutual co existence is the solution to to all such problems.

And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise(Luke 6:31)...

So it cannot be forgotten among all of those meat eating quotes!

Edited June 21, 2013 by Luka Petrovic

[Dmetri Tabor]

Thats a very interesting debate, one that is more likely to go unresolved forever. My personal opinion, as a Christian, is that it says in the Bible that God gave us all the animals to eat, so I'll eat them.

I don't know where i heard this from, but i remember someone once telling me that in Christianity, God apparently said that when there was hardly any food to go around, perhaps like a famine of crops and thats why He said that... but that originally we were meant to eat veggies and nuts etc

I don't know for sure though as I am not christian and have not read the bible... but i was wondering if anyone knew anything about this.

What you're refering to is before man got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Anyway, heres the thing I was talking about:

Acts 10:9-23

⁹ About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. ¹⁰ He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. ¹¹ He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. ¹² It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. ¹³ Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

¹⁴ “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

¹⁵ The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

¹⁶ This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

¹⁷ While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. ¹⁸ They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

¹⁹ While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three^[a] men are looking for you. ²⁰ So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

²¹ Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

²² The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” ²³ Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

What denomination of christianity do you belong to? It differs from group to group.

That would be Assembly of God

[IBfreakingout!]

Interesting. That differs massively to Jainism. This debate will continue forever and these faiths will be what turn us against each other. All I can say is that while I respect your choice, my choice is different and I will stand by it.

I still think that eating meat isn't ethical and that by not eating meat, or even simply reducing the amount of meat you eat, will greatly help this world in some of the big problems it has.

[IBfreakingout!]

Humans are lucky because they are the dominant species in this planet. Imagine an even more advanced and more powerful creatures would have dominated in this planet and their favorite food is humans. Then at such times peoples must keep thier mouths shuts because animals are really facing such sort of problems with humans. Fittest will survive is too mean and selfish proverb. peace and mutual co existence is the solution to all such problems.

Well said! The only question I often find myself pondering over, is how the plants feel when being uprooted and eaten. It is one thing to eat ripe fruits that fall naturally off the plants/trees, but another to kill the plant or a part of the plant as food. They too will suffer, and while that might be less than the pain of animals (or so claimed), what will we eat if we decided to go all out and not eat anything that has been hurt.

The only way is by eating the fallen fruit of plants, and you can only be sure of this by planting your own vegetables and living solely off that. It can be done but seems really hard. You would also have to apply this to things like milk, spices etc.

[Black Bird Lockheed]

Humans are lucky because they are the dominant species in this planet. Imagine an even more advanced and more powerful creatures would have dominated in this planet and their favorite food is humans. Then at such times peoples must keep thier mouths shuts because animals are really facing such sort of problems with humans. Fittest will survive is too mean and selfish proverb. peace and mutual co existence is the solution to all such problems.

Well said! The only question I often find myself pondering over, is how the plants feel when being uprooted and eaten. It is one thing to eat ripe fruits that fall naturally off the plants/trees, but another to kill the plant or a part of the plant as food. They too will suffer, and while that might be less than the pain of animals (or so claimed), what will we eat if we decided to go all out and not eat anything that has been hurt.

The only way is by eating the fallen fruit of plants, and you can only be sure of this by planting your own vegetables and living solely off that. It can be done but seems really hard. You would also have to apply this to things like milk, spices etc.

Wish that it becomes truth. But I don't think that a population of more than 7 billion people could really scavenge fallen fruits and grow vegetables on their own. But what is the use of our intelligence if we are not able to do anything to do for our fellow creatures. Man had invented planes, had went to outer space and know many things but they really did not use their brains to make food of their own just like plants ( as if it really bothers them). Plants can't live without sunlight. Herbivores cannot live without plants.Carnivores cannot live without animals. But humans CAN live without eating meat and if possible their intelligence could even made it possible to be self sustainable just like plants. But who cares. Will anyone will really stop eating crispy and juicy chicken fry, or hamburger. The point is that we are too selfish. I wondered why the creators had made humans as the topmost intelligent creature in the planet. It is just like giving money for safe guarding to the bunch of thieves.

My only wish is that humans must live without hurting any living creatures and instead made their life comfortable and happy.

[Luka Petrovic]

Thats a very interesting debate, one that is more likely to go unresolved forever. My personal opinion, as a Christian, is that it says in the Bible that God gave us all the animals to eat, so I'll eat them.

I don't know where i heard this from, but i remember someone once telling me that in Christianity, God apparently said that when there was hardly any food to go around, perhaps like a famine of crops and thats why He said that... but that originally we were meant to eat veggies and nuts etc

I don't know for sure though as I am not christian and have not read the bible... but i was wondering if anyone knew anything about this.

What you're refering to is before man got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Anyway, heres the thing I was talking about:

Acts 10:9-23

⁹ About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. ¹⁰ He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. ¹¹ He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. ¹² It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. ¹³ Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

¹⁴ “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

¹⁵ The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

¹⁶ This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

¹⁷ While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. ¹⁸ They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

¹⁹ While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three^[a] men are looking for you. ²⁰ So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

²¹ Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

²² The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” ²³ Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

What denomination of christianity do you belong to? It differs from group to group.

That would be Assembly of God

Those quotes only work for you because you are of a protestant/ evangelical church. Orthodox christians fast twice a week, wednesdays and fridays from animal products and then fast full out for 40 days, all vegan diet, and again before Christmas... Catholics also fast at some points as well, yeah Christianity has very diverse views on eating meat . Monks of either denomination eat no meat, abstain often from dairy and rarely eat fish on feast days. Monks live the holiest of christian lives.

Humans are lucky because they are the dominant species in this planet. Imagine an even more advanced and more powerful creatures would have dominated in this planet and their favorite food is humans. Then at such times peoples must keep thier mouths shuts because animals are really facing such sort of problems with humans. Fittest will survive is too mean and selfish proverb. peace and mutual co existence is the solution to all such problems.

Well said! The only question I often find myself pondering over, is how the plants feel when being uprooted and eaten. It is one thing to eat ripe fruits that fall naturally off the plants/trees, but another to kill the plant or a part of the plant as food. They too will suffer, and while that might be less than the pain of animals (or so claimed), what will we eat if we decided to go all out and not eat anything that has been hurt.

The only way is by eating the fallen fruit of plants, and you can only be sure of this by planting your own vegetables and living solely off that. It can be done but seems really hard. You would also have to apply this to things like milk, spices etc.

Wish that it becomes truth. But I don't think that a population of more than 7 billion people could really scavenge fallen fruits and grow vegetables on their own. But what is the use of our intelligence if we are not able to do anything to do for our fellow creatures. Man had invented planes, had went to outer space and know many things but they really did not use their brains to make food of their own just like plants ( as if it really bothers them). Plants can't live without sunlight. Herbivores cannot live without plants.Carnivores cannot live without animals. But humans CAN live without eating meat and if possible their intelligence could even made it possible to be self sustainable just like plants. But who cares. Will anyone will really stop eating crispy and juicy chicken fry, or hamburger. The point is that we are too selfish. I wondered why the creators had made humans as the topmost intelligent creature in the planet. It is just like giving money for safe guarding to the bunch of thieves.

My only wish is that humans must live without hurting any living creatures and instead made their life comfortable and happy.

Yeah thats a cool point of view, like you can eat eat, but its of a higher state of existence and moral, not to eat it...

[IBfreakingout!]

Thats a very interesting debate, one that is more likely to go unresolved forever. My personal opinion, as a Christian, is that it says in the Bible that God gave us all the animals to eat, so I'll eat them.

I don't know where i heard this from, but i remember someone once telling me that in Christianity, God apparently said that when there was hardly any food to go around, perhaps like a famine of crops and thats why He said that... but that originally we were meant to eat veggies and nuts etc

I don't know for sure though as I am not christian and have not read the bible... but i was wondering if anyone knew anything about this.

What you're refering to is before man got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Anyway, heres the thing I was talking about:

Acts 10:9-23

⁹ About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. ¹⁰ He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. ¹¹ He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. ¹² It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. ¹³ Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

¹⁴ “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

¹⁵ The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

¹⁶ This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

¹⁷ While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. ¹⁸ They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

¹⁹ While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three^[a] men are looking for you. ²⁰ So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

²¹ Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

²² The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” ²³ Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

What denomination of christianity do you belong to? It differs from group to group.

That would be Assembly of God

Those quotes only work for you because you are of a protestant/ evangelical church. Orthodox christians fast twice a week, wednesdays and fridays from animal products and then fast full out for 40 days, all vegan diet, and again before Christmas... Catholics also fast at some points as well, yeah Christianity has very diverse views on eating meat . Monks of either denomination eat no meat, abstain often from dairy and rarely eat fish on feast days. Monks live the holiest of christian lives.

You remind me of something that bothers me. You (in reference to Orthodox Christians) fast from animal products and have Lent as I have heard it being called where people give up something like meat, and all these times when you refrain from eating meat or animal products in general. Yet, you are non-vegetarian the rest of the time? If you give up meat at any set time at all, surely you are accepting and acknowledging that there is something unethical or wrong about eating meat!

I know people who cannot answer me confidently on this. You say there is nothing wrong in eating meat, yet you fast on these days! What irony.

Either you should learn more about the reasons of why you fast etc, or accept (even if you aren't acting on it) that there is something wrong in eating meat.

Rant over. Thank you for listening.

[Luka Petrovic]

Thats a very interesting debate, one that is more likely to go unresolved forever. My personal opinion, as a Christian, is that it says in the Bible that God gave us all the animals to eat, so I'll eat them.

I don't know where i heard this from, but i remember someone once telling me that in Christianity, God apparently said that when there was hardly any food to go around, perhaps like a famine of crops and thats why He said that... but that originally we were meant to eat veggies and nuts etc

I don't know for sure though as I am not christian and have not read the bible... but i was wondering if anyone knew anything about this.

What you're refering to is before man got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Anyway, heres the thing I was talking about:

Acts 10:9-23

⁹ About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. ¹⁰ He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. ¹¹ He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. ¹² It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. ¹³ Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

¹⁴ “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

¹⁵ The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

¹⁶ This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

¹⁷ While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. ¹⁸ They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

¹⁹ While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three^[a] men are looking for you. ²⁰ So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

²¹ Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

²² The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” ²³ Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

What denomination of christianity do you belong to? It differs from group to group.

That would be Assembly of God

Those quotes only work for you because you are of a protestant/ evangelical church. Orthodox christians fast twice a week, wednesdays and fridays from animal products and then fast full out for 40 days, all vegan diet, and again before Christmas... Catholics also fast at some points as well, yeah Christianity has very diverse views on eating meat . Monks of either denomination eat no meat, abstain often from dairy and rarely eat fish on feast days. Monks live the holiest of christian lives.

You remind me of something that bothers me. You (in reference to Orthodox Christians) fast from animal products and have Lent as I have heard it being called where people give up something like meat, and all these times when you refrain from eating meat or animal products in general. Yet, you are non-vegetarian the rest of the time? If you give up meat at any set time at all, surely you are accepting and acknowledging that there is something unethical or wrong about eating meat!

I know people who cannot answer me confidently on this. You say there is nothing wrong in eating meat, yet you fast on these days! What irony.

Either you should learn more about the reasons of why you fast etc, or accept (even if you aren't acting on it) that there is something wrong in eating meat.

Rant over. Thank you for listening.

Sorry if it seemed somewhat hypocritical... anything I could clear up? I'd be cool with a conversation rather than with rants!

[IBfreakingout!]

Nah im not trying to pick on you in particular, it's just that some non-vegetarian people feel pride in "not eating meat on tuesdays" or other specific days and yet they think there is nothing wrong in eating meat!

My dad in particular has had many such conversations where when he asks why it is of importance to not eat meat on those days, they say "umm well... its what god said?", or "those days are holy" in a really unsure and confused tone of voice. It is pretty evident that they don't know why they don't eat meat that day.

To me, if you don't eat meat at specific day because its "holy not to" then your admitting, unknowingly but still admitting, that there is something wrong in eating meat, something impure or just not right. As if the other days are not so pure so u can commit sins.

We (including me) should all learn more about the religions we say we follow but we don't even know the reasons for why we do the things we do. This goes highly for me too as I am really not educated enough and would really like to be! I find it fascinating...no matter what religion it may be.

[cricketcrazynerd]

Nah im not trying to pick on you in particular, it's just that some non-vegetarian people feel pride in "not eating meat on tuesdays" or other specific days and yet they think there is nothing wrong in eating meat!

OMG exactly...during Navratiri (even though I'm not Hindu, but Sikh), my dad's like we are not going to eat meat. I don't get it. By not eating meat for some days we can't escape the fact that we eat meat for the rest of the year...we're NOT going to get more 'pure' by doing so

[Black Bird Lockheed]

Nah im not trying to pick on you in particular, it's just that some non-vegetarian people feel pride in "not eating meat on tuesdays" or other specific days and yet they think there is nothing wrong in eating meat!

OMG exactly...during Navratiri (even though I'm not Hindu, but Sikh), my dad's like we are not going to eat meat. I don't get it. By not eating meat for some days we can't escape the fact that we eat meat for the rest of the year...we're NOT going to get more 'pure' by doing so

This shows that eating meat is not at all good, just like IB freaking out says. You know I had used one technique ( you may find hard to believe it) but by using that I been transformed from non veg to veg. 12 years ago I used to eat fish, prawns,chicken and oysters. I will start my time line.

12 years ago: I used to eat every non veg. But eating fish was not a good experience, becoz its thorn (remains used to hurt me. I thought for some time I will stop eating fish. It happened for three years ( I had not eaten fish at all) and then when I tried to eat the fish for the first time I simply vomited because I have developed a revulsion for fish meat.

10 years ago: After I had stopped eating fish, I was liking prawns and was eating it. but then I had a stupid imagination that prawns looks virtually looks like a insect, and after that ( my family members were really amazed) I had stopped eating prawns just because I had thought that eating prawns was like eating insects.

8 years ago: Here once again imagination worked because this time I thought eating chicken was like eating a dead body of an animal.

2 years ago: Oysters was my fav food. It was only available in Kerala, and my grand mom used to make me a lot of it when I used to visit there. Now because due to board exams, I was not able to meet her. But after 3 years when I atlast got oysters, my head started paining and followed by nausea. Then completely stopped eating non veg.

You know some times I feel jealous when my brother eats fried chicken and the smell is also tempting, but I am still happy that I am not hurting any animals.

Edited June 23, 2013 by akash jishnu

[Luka Petrovic]

Nah im not trying to pick on you in particular, it's just that some non-vegetarian people feel pride in "not eating meat on tuesdays" or other specific days and yet they think there is nothing wrong in eating meat!

My dad in particular has had many such conversations where when he asks why it is of importance to not eat meat on those days, they say "umm well... its what god said?", or "those days are holy" in a really unsure and confused tone of voice. It is pretty evident that they don't know why they don't eat meat that day.

To me, if you don't eat meat at specific day because its "holy not to" then your admitting, unknowingly but still admitting, that there is something wrong in eating meat, something impure or just not right. As if the other days are not so pure so u can commit sins.

We (including me) should all learn more about the religions we say we follow but we don't even know the reasons for why we do the things we do. This goes highly for me too as I am really not educated enough and would really like to be! I find it fascinating...no matter what religion it may be.

Oh yeah for sure eating meat is not the most spiritually pure thing, abstaining from it tuesday and wednesdays is only part of that, its also about just regularly doing away with richness and gluttony which meat kinda is, so in actuality it has little to do with vegetarianism more with meat being luxurious (which it really is, and we eat it more than ever in our human history... even 80 years ago people didn;t eat every meal everyday)... I think the reason european cultures no matter what have never done away with meat is because it was kinda historically necessary... Compare a european or middle eastern climate and then the climate in india, then compare the yields of their crops and how long the growing season season is, and it will show you why Indian laymen commonly are vegetarian meanwhile middle eastern and european laymen almost never are, only monks (fish historically has not been considered meat, though now we know its an animal haha).

Edited June 23, 2013 by Luka Petrovic

[cricketcrazynerd]

This shows that eating meat is not at all good, I am still happy that I am not hurting any animals.

I love meat. I just have to point this out...being a Punjabi Indian, I can't imagine life without my butter chicken or lamb curry. But that withstanding, I also adore my vegetarian food options. But, I think it's horrible to say that because I'm a self-confessed meat lover, I'm a bad person. Because of religious reasons, I don't eat beef or pork, but I certainty do not go around pointing fingers at people who do so. Chicken and all these animals are livestock and reared so people can eat them...we can hurt animals by more ways than just eating them. I might be more environmentally friendly then you are, I might not litter (littering also hurts animals and their environments). By saying that eating meat is not good, I think you're making a very superficial point. Each person should have the option to eat (as long as they're not eating humans) whatever they like without being judged that they are doing a good or bad thing.

[IBfreakingout!]

There are always alternatives to solve a problem. Like you pointed out that one way of solving certain environmental problems can be solved by not littering, however there are always many other ways and we are not saying that not eating meat will solve all the problems in the categories of animal rights, environmental issues and health, but that to a degree some problems will be reduced.

It is not the actual act of eating the meat that is the problem either. It is the killing of them, and the unnecessary usage of land to grow crops that are fed to the animals not humans, and eventually when the animal is fat enough, they are killed (brutally in many cases, such as the Indonesian Abattoirs news stuff in 2011 I think it was). By not eating meat, you reduce the number of people demanding meat will reduce, and eventually cattle and poultry (meat in general) farmers will move onto something else, and will perhaps use that land for actual crop for humans or put it to better use, maybe let the trees grow. That, is how we vegetarians hope to contribute. Also, that was just one example but by not buying cosmetics or other products that have been tested on animals, you can TRY to reduce the number of animals that suffer.

Obviously, we need a lot of people to get this going, but think about this. A person not eating meat, will stop the deaths of approximately 100 animals a year. I think that's a lot. Even though the overall number of animals dying will be in millions, who knows maybe billions, but like they say, every drop counts.

I hope that made sense...it did in my head.

[Nabz]

There are always alternatives to solve a problem. Like you pointed out that one way of solving certain environmental problems can be solved by not littering, however there are always many other ways and we are not saying that not eating meat will solve all the problems in the categories of animal rights, environmental issues and health, but that to a degree some problems will be reduced.

It is not the actual act of eating the meat that is the problem either. It is the killing of them, and the unnecessary usage of land to grow crops that are fed to the animals not humans, and eventually when the animal is fat enough, they are killed (brutally in many cases, such as the Indonesian Abattoirs news stuff in 2011 I think it was). By not eating meat, you reduce the number of people demanding meat will reduce, and eventually cattle and poultry (meat in general) farmers will move onto something else, and will perhaps use that land for actual crop for humans or put it to better use, maybe let the trees grow. That, is how we vegetarians hope to contribute. Also, that was just one example but by not buying cosmetics or other products that have been tested on animals, you can TRY to reduce the number of animals that suffer.

Obviously, we need a lot of people to get this going, but think about this. A person not eating meat, will stop the deaths of approximately 100 animals a year. I think that's a lot. Even though the overall number of animals dying will be in millions, who knows maybe billions, but like they say, every drop counts.

I hope that made sense...it did in my head.

However, you do realize that by eating meat, the world has been maintaining the population of herbivores?

[Luka Petrovic]

There are always alternatives to solve a problem. Like you pointed out that one way of solving certain environmental problems can be solved by not littering, however there are always many other ways and we are not saying that not eating meat will solve all the problems in the categories of animal rights, environmental issues and health, but that to a degree some problems will be reduced.

It is not the actual act of eating the meat that is the problem either. It is the killing of them, and the unnecessary usage of land to grow crops that are fed to the animals not humans, and eventually when the animal is fat enough, they are killed (brutally in many cases, such as the Indonesian Abattoirs news stuff in 2011 I think it was). By not eating meat, you reduce the number of people demanding meat will reduce, and eventually cattle and poultry (meat in general) farmers will move onto something else, and will perhaps use that land for actual crop for humans or put it to better use, maybe let the trees grow. That, is how we vegetarians hope to contribute. Also, that was just one example but by not buying cosmetics or other products that have been tested on animals, you can TRY to reduce the number of animals that suffer.

Obviously, we need a lot of people to get this going, but think about this. A person not eating meat, will stop the deaths of approximately 100 animals a year. I think that's a lot. Even though the overall number of animals dying will be in millions, who knows maybe billions, but like they say, every drop counts.

I hope that made sense...it did in my head.

However, you do realize that by eating meat, the world has been maintaining the population of herbivores?

As well as i said before, historically being vegetarian was not always possible for people in europe. Yeah great you can do it in India where things grow all year long. Try doing that in Russia Its all subjective and has to do with the necessity to survive. If you suggested that a mongolian circa 1300 that he should be a vegetarian, he would lop your head off because you basically told him to die. They didn't even plant matter to cook their meat! Let alone eat it. Even still in our modern world, lets not pretend our methods of raising food crops are environmentally friendly I don't have any stats on hand. but i would wager its more environmentally friendly to eat meat that you either A) raised yourself and was fed naturally, such as a cow on grass or a pig rooting in an orchard or B) a herbivore you hunted and processed yourself such as a deer or moose, Than it is to eat all veg from mass industrial farms.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Luka Petrovic

[IBfreakingout!]

There are always alternatives to solve a problem. Like you pointed out that one way of solving certain environmental problems can be solved by not littering, however there are always many other ways and we are not saying that not eating meat will solve all the problems in the categories of animal rights, environmental issues and health, but that to a degree some problems will be reduced.

It is not the actual act of eating the meat that is the problem either. It is the killing of them, and the unnecessary usage of land to grow crops that are fed to the animals not humans, and eventually when the animal is fat enough, they are killed (brutally in many cases, such as the Indonesian Abattoirs news stuff in 2011 I think it was). By not eating meat, you reduce the number of people demanding meat will reduce, and eventually cattle and poultry (meat in general) farmers will move onto something else, and will perhaps use that land for actual crop for humans or put it to better use, maybe let the trees grow. That, is how we vegetarians hope to contribute. Also, that was just one example but by not buying cosmetics or other products that have been tested on animals, you can TRY to reduce the number of animals that suffer.

Obviously, we need a lot of people to get this going, but think about this. A person not eating meat, will stop the deaths of approximately 100 animals a year. I think that's a lot. Even though the overall number of animals dying will be in millions, who knows maybe billions, but like they say, every drop counts.

I hope that made sense...it did in my head.

However, you do realize that by eating meat, the world has been maintaining the population of herbivores?

maintaining the crazy number of herbivores that it purposely breed for the sole purpose of being slaughtered and eaten? why yes, eating meat is keeping the number of herbovores down. Also, eating meat in russia seems like a good point...but i do wonder how they get all their nutrients then... if they have no or little fresh vegetables.

[Luka Petrovic]

There are always alternatives to solve a problem. Like you pointed out that one way of solving certain environmental problems can be solved by not littering, however there are always many other ways and we are not saying that not eating meat will solve all the problems in the categories of animal rights, environmental issues and health, but that to a degree some problems will be reduced.

It is not the actual act of eating the meat that is the problem either. It is the killing of them, and the unnecessary usage of land to grow crops that are fed to the animals not humans, and eventually when the animal is fat enough, they are killed (brutally in many cases, such as the Indonesian Abattoirs news stuff in 2011 I think it was). By not eating meat, you reduce the number of people demanding meat will reduce, and eventually cattle and poultry (meat in general) farmers will move onto something else, and will perhaps use that land for actual crop for humans or put it to better use, maybe let the trees grow. That, is how we vegetarians hope to contribute. Also, that was just one example but by not buying cosmetics or other products that have been tested on animals, you can TRY to reduce the number of animals that suffer.

Obviously, we need a lot of people to get this going, but think about this. A person not eating meat, will stop the deaths of approximately 100 animals a year. I think that's a lot. Even though the overall number of animals dying will be in millions, who knows maybe billions, but like they say, every drop counts.

I hope that made sense...it did in my head.

However, you do realize that by eating meat, the world has been maintaining the population of herbivores?

maintaining the crazy number of herbivores that it purposely breed for the sole purpose of being slaughtered and eaten? why yes, eating meat is keeping the number of herbovores down. Also, eating meat in russia seems like a good point...but i do wonder how they get all their nutrients then... if they have no or little fresh vegetables.

Well its a modern country now, as are finland, sweden, etc... Historically though people would be able to keep root vegetables fresh in cellars through until spring, pine needles are an excellent tea and an even better source of vitamin C. Better than oranges in fact. So people made do with what they had. I'm not sure what it is called, but I know that groups of people/nations become accustomed to diets that would be utterly detrimental to another. Think the Inuit... Fat and meat and organs. Yes they got vitamins that the animals stored, but most of us would die of heart disease before we got scurvy! So it depends haha.

[THEliberator]

Ethics are the cumulative product of beliefs and opinions that sensitize with other beings. Thus, it might be ethical for one person but not for some other person. However, I am not against it as we only consume 4% of edible matter in our surroundings and thus, avoiding food sources can hinder sustainability, but when talking about sustainability then consumption of meat is less energy efficient than eating crops.