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Is it ethical to eat meat?


Guest kenshi64

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Can and do humans consume meat? Yes, but mostly only a select few cuts of meat, and requiring thorough cooking and use of spices to be edible and appealing. Animals that are truly biologically wired to eat meat have the physical traits to hunt, kill and eat everything off the carcass raw, indiscriminatingly, fur, skin, organs and all. Thus, I would argue that saying we are biologically wired to eat meat is an exaggeration. 

 

And your point about artificially and industrially farming billions of farm animals in unnatural conditions annually being somehow 'beneficial' to the respective species, that's just absurd.

Good point there in your first paragraph. Perhaps we have evolved, physically, culturally, and psychologically to the point which we do not require the consumption of meat, especially with the access to the alternatives.

 

As for the farming, I was thinking along the lines that it would benefit the animals themselves rather than the species as a whole. In many parts of the world, farm animals simply cannot survive on their own. Instead, they rely on humans to provide them with food and shelter. However, I do agree with you that farming animals in the way that we do it today ("artificially and industrially") is not beneficial to the animals species as a whole. 

Edited by Schrödinger's CAS
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While a lot has been said for big farmers who have a pretty poor history of treating their animals well, there are still farmers who observe humane farming practices. Usually they're a lot smaller and don't produce a lot, but they raise their animals well and make sure they are fed a natural diet, don't receive hormones, get lots of room to run around and do farm animal things, and are treated well until slaughter (which is done quickly, efficiently, and humanely). I believe this is the most ethical way to consume meat as a species that biologically is omnivorous, regardless of how we've evolved culturally or otherwise (we still have our canine and front teeth for ripping meat, and a digestive system that allows us to break down and absorb animal protein, as well as requiring certain vitamins and minerals that can only be obtained from animal products). There is no evidence that suggests humans are no longer omnivores; those who do not eat meat nowadays can do so because of health/environmental concerns and still get all their required nutrition through substitutes or other sources like tofu, soy, or beans, but we're still omnivores.

 

My primary sources of animal protein are chicken and eggs (because I'm broke lol) and I make sure that when I buy them, I buy them from a place that treats their animals right, and I make sure the same is true of other things I like to eat that are animal based like milk. Buying products like this isn't necessarily more expensive either, oftentimes the brand of chicken I buy is the same price or even cheaper than the regular or even fancy organic stuff (which by the way, doesn't mean that the animals are necessarily treated better just on the word "organic" alone). I'm lucky to live in a US state where agriculture is pretty big and despite living in a large city, farms can be found not more than 30 minutes away. As long as this is the case and I can get animal products from ethical farmers, I will continue eating meat because I do not find anything unethical with this method of raising animals. And I do not look down on people who are vegetarian or vegan.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I'm starting to lean more towards the unethical side...

It is unnecessary for us to consume animal protein. Animal protein and animal produce(Cheese, cows milk etc) has been linked to many health issues, such as diabetes, coronary heart disease, cancer cell growth etc..

Please do some research on that if you dont believe me. (Consuming meat and diary really messes with your body)

The plant based diet is the healthiest for humans(And no we are not omnivores, we are herbivores)

If we were omnivores, we would have claws to chop our prey and we would also be able to eat them in their flesh and blood without getting sick!(Just saying)

I'm not a vegetarian  or a vegan, but im convinced, I do believe it is unethical. Why do animals have to die for us? Why do they need to be tortured in slaughter houses(both psychological and physical abuse) and locked up and chained for us to get a piece of beef? whats the POINT? When its not even doing our body GOOD????????????????? Not only are we harming and abusing our fellow animals, but we are harming our bodies, our health, our well being and longevity. 

Please watch Gary Yourofsky's speech... This man is a legend. When I watched his speech, I literally was convinced that this is the right thing to do. The kind of knowledge he shared, thats the stuff you never get told at school, or at home, or anything. He was my awakening, and he took my blinders off. So now im starting my journey on a plant based diet fully convinced that I'm doing the right thing. (Here's the link to his speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4)

Edited by Nadsxo2
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     Firstly, I am a vegetarian. I understand that the implications of being a vegetarian affects both me, my family, the agriculture industry, and in general terms: the world. 

 

     However, one assumption must be dealt with prior to debating the ethicality of consuming meat: the idea of animal sentience (essentially that animals can feel pain/emotions). In The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness, a major study was undertaken to try and prove animal sentience. What was found was that animals do not have a neocortex, but have the ability to feel and have intentional behaviours. Of course this is merely a scientific finding which may be later changed due to new findings, those who argue that animals "cannot feel pain" may need to do some further investigation into animal sentience. There has yet to be any scientific findings in regards to the sentience of plants, thus an assumption I make as a vegetarian is that plants are not sentient (however this can be completely incorrect). 

 

     Depending upon one's own set of morals, consuming meat can be seen as both ethical and un-ethical. To the non-vegetarian, consuming meat can be seen as ethical as they are supporting the agriculture industry (the farmers, their families, and the companies responsible for the "Factory Farm"), thus allowing agriculturally based communities to grow and be supported via the purchase of meat products. As well, the non-vegetarian can see consuming meat as ethical because they are essentially putting the livestock which are raised on factory farms out of their misery. The factory farm can be described as a place where (for example) 50,000 chickens can live in "long, windowless shed on the floor" (Singer, Peter. "Down On the Factory Farm." In Animal Liberation. 2nd ed. New York. NY. 1990.) and a pecking order thus ensues in which some chickens become more aggressive and eat and kill other chickens due to the development of this pecking order (Singer, Peter. "Down On the Factory Farm." In Animal Liberation. 2nd ed. New York. NY. 1990.). In this case, consuming meat can be seen as ethical as it lessens the pain felt by various animals on the Factory Farm as the pecking order results in the death/injury of other weaker chickens. 

 

     Conversely, vegetarianism can be seen as ethical as it supports Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. By becoming vegetarian, one could potentially redistribute the grain fed to animals on Factory Farms to the nearly 805 million starving and malnourished people in the world. This would mean that these animals raised in "Factory Farms" could potentially be released into the wild, allowing for their happiness to be increased (assumption) and for the happiness and basic need of nourishment to be met for the 805 million starving people in the world (food is the foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs- thus the redistribution of grain would allow these 805 million people to develop belonging/love, self-esteem and the peak of the hierarchy: self-actualization). It should be noted that only 21.5 million people would have to become vegetarian and support the redistribution of grain for this to happen (and of course for the various grain producing companies to support this). Another way in vegetarianism can be seen as ethical is that it tries to support the idea that animals have the right to life and freedom from pain. To me, this is a major reason why I am vegetarian as I feel that although animals may not have the capability to make the decision to live or die, they should have the right to not have this decision made for them by humans.

 

     Finally, I would like to assert that it is ultimately the choice of the individual and their own personal set of morals/what they deem as ethical which corresponds to their decision to become vegetarian or not (as this is a pretty cyclical argument in which one could spend years on). However, I would like to pose a question to the non-vegetarians: what gives you (as a human) the right to take a life in order to nourish yourself (when considering that it is not necessary as there are healthy ways of eating such as vegetarianism in which animals are not killed)?

Edited by MarieLarissa
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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a question we could ask about everything. 

 

Is it ethical to kill people for "peace"?

Is it ethical to buy good for China where white slaves do them for some rice?
Is it ethical to be "friends" with someone, and then talk about them behind their backs?

Is it ethical to eat vegetables? I mean technically we exploit the Earth like this.

 

There are many questions that could be ask, which would start with "Is it ethical". And there are too many of them, each of which would be long-lasting discussion of two sides arguing all the time.

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@mac117 – I find these kinds of topics to be excellent for getting some TOK skill (and developing your thinking abilities in the long run), plus this forum is called Debate & Discussion – and I'm pretty sure this topic wasn't made to reach an answer of holy truth or something of the sort.

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@mac117 – I find these kinds of topics to be excellent for getting some TOK skill (and developing your thinking abilities in the long run), plus this forum is called Debate & Discussion – and I'm pretty sure this topic wasn't made to reach an answer of holy truth or something of the sort.

 

 

I have to agree with you; I love these kind of topics myself. For me personally it is a great way to write arguments and give me reasons for why I stand for what I stand. But I sometimes feel these kind of things separate people or cause them to be angry at each other.

 

I didn't mean to come across as someone who dislikes these discussions, sorry. ^_^  I mean, I myself created some topics here, and discussed with other people about it. But we can't disagree with the fact that this can be really asked about many/most things we humans do. In the end, everyone does their own thing. :)

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  • 2 months later...

All carnivores and omnivores kill other animals in order to get food. That's evolution. It's not fair and just, but there's nothing unethical about it. Predators existed before humans and will continue to exist after human extinction. 

Is cutting down trees in order to get books which contribute to literature and to the development of mankind and education unethical? We're demolishing the planet and exploiting Earth like that, that's not ethical, is it? Trees are living organisms as well, right?

Is eating vegetables ethical? If not, then why?

It makes no sense to think like that, and one thing that I truly cannot stand is vegetarians complaining about me consuming meat. I don't mind vegetarians at all, but don't push your beliefs on me.

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  • 1 month later...

I feel that it is ethical to eat meat. Animals have the ability to reproduce, therefore we are able to continue the practice of sacrificing them for our nutrition. I do not, however, agree with this whole "factory farming" idea. It's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. The objectification of animals really needs to just stop. Sometimes I wish we would let animals roam the land while continuing to let ourselves live normally. If we want that source of energy, we should get it ourselves in the humane way. Sorry, but beating a chicken with a metal rod is anything but humane (referencing the YouTube video titled "Meet your Meat"). Humans and animals were meant to coexist, so we have to treat them ethically and maintain a healthy relationship.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I do not, however, agree with this whole "factory farming" idea. It's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. The objectification of animals really needs to just stop.

 

I couldn't agree more with you. I'm a 90% vegetarian, meaning that I eat meat maybe once every 1-3 weeks and fish maybe 1-2 times a week. Our modern industrialised way of producing meat is just simply wrong and I do not want to support that industry by buying meat from big food store chains; instead, I buy it from local small-scale organic farmers, hunt it myself (with bow and arrow, I dislike firearms) or get meat from other hunters, or collect roadkills whose meat would go to waste if not. I believe this is the ethical and natural way of eating meat every once in a while. The thing that troubles me is that nowadays people are so estranged from our natural environment that in the zeal of "progress", on big farms with thousands of animals for meat production, even taking an animal's life has become a seemingly insignificant and mechanised operation, and most people never stop to think about the fact that before the 20th century, on the countryside roughly 80-95% of our daily diet consisted in vegetarian food - just like it's biologically supposed to be.

 

My maxim is: if you eat meat but would never kill an animal for food or even watch others do it, then you're a hypocrite who should be a vegetarian.

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I feel that it is ethical to eat meat. Animals have the ability to reproduce, therefore we are able to continue the practice of sacrificing them for our nutrition. 

 

If that's your justification eating meat being ethical, I have to completely disagree. The bottom line is by eating animals, we are creating the demand for murdering animals to sustain ourselves. It doesn't matter how it's done, it doesn't matter how much we do it, we are killing some form of life to satisfy our hunger.

 

Imagine if it was the another way around, if people were food to animals was as common as we eat them. The ability to procreate does not justify the continuous process of killing a species for food. Life has infinitely more value to oneself than being food to another, especially for animals, because they are capable of intelligent life. It's easy to say it's okay to eat animals when we're sitting on the throne, but if large groups of people are being killed for food, I wouldn't think anyone would say the ability to reproduce justifies a universal genocide, even if we are treated humanely before death. Animals have their own will too; and I'd argue they don't want to be food just as much as us.

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  • 4 weeks later...

In my opinion, its unethical to eat meat. 

 

Allow me to use an example of a dairy cow. A female cow produces enough milk to feed her offspring(s). This is made for her children so that they may obtain their nutrients and grow healthy, and pass it on. And then there's us, taking some of that milk that feeds a calf so that we may feed ourselves and kids. I understand that we don't produce life long milk, but there are other options to obtain calcium. So, why take some from another being when there are in fact other options?!

 

But then there's this perspective: We are animals. We don't call ourselves animals, but people. Our species is called humans. But what about the rest of the species, the animals? If we're animals and call ourselves people, aren't they people too? We have families, rules, opinions, emotions, blood, bones - everything that they have. So, why are we eating each other? Why are we taking away a hen's egg to eat? That's a baby, her offspring from her flesh, of whom she hasn't met yet, but feels emotions for? Like a puppy, we use them for pets, company, a friend. But the other perspective is that we took it away from its mother and vice versa. Why do we do that? 

 

Like a pet fish or a bird; trapped in a small space for our own pleasure. A fish is born in a big area, meant for exploration and free - a bird has wings to fly in the sky and be free. Not a cage. That's not where they're supposed to be.

 

But then this leads to the fact that other animals eat each other, which doesn't make sense as to why some people think its unethical to eat meat - if they eat meat, why don't we? I guess it's just all based on our emotions or empathy. When we can place our selves in those situations of when a mother dog's pup is taken away from her, and she doesn't understand why, we feel sympathy. So, we just stop hurting these animals physically/mentally for our own pleasure. Therefore, if we feel sympathetic, and the animal expresses this emotions as well, then doesn't it seem wrong to eat or use them?

 

Are my points clear enough to get my point across? Am I making sense?

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Why have this debate when it all boils down to personal preference and ultimately (or unfortunately) we are a species that values our sustenance and satisfaction above all else? For debate's sake, I'll put in my two cents worth.

In truth, in buying meat from the butcher or supermarket, wherever you buy it from, the animal is clearly already dead, and not eating it isn't going to bring it back to life; if you don't eat it, someone else will. And while sure, being a vegetarian decreases the demand for meat, it doesn't do it on such a scale that is effective, or that makes a difference.

If I went to a restaurant where they had an animal running around in a pen or something, and it was on the menu, to be killed there for you to eat it, I would sure as hell not order that piece of meat, because I AM sentencing it to death. But considering the meat is already dead, and also that it's really a significant part of the human diet, I don't think myself unethical for eating meat.

She has really encapsulated the best points there. We never realise how much these animals suffer because so many of us are disconnected from the reality of the situation. There is a huge difference between reading about the slaughterhouses and actually WITNESSING these animals losing their life. To illustrate, I still see so many parents buying McDonalds' Chicken Nuggets for their kids even though they might have read about what goes into it. All of us know about the extreme poverty in Africa. How many of us actually volunteer to help (I mean actual on-the-ground volunteering, not donations)?

 

However, sarahlouise has erred on one point. If all of us were to turn vegetarian tomorrow onwards, our free market economies will automatically register the drop in demand for meat and so the meat industry will eventually collapse over a long period of time. Hence, having large numbers of people turn vegetarian IS going to effectively decrease the demand for meat. Anyway, atleast here in Singapore, demand is already dropping for meat from traditional slaughterhouses and is increasing for meat bred in organic and humane methods (so they do not inject growth hormones in chicken and stuff like that). Following this trajectory, organic farms are soon going to become the new norm as consumers become more interested in knowing exactly where their food comes from and the quality of their food. In these organic farms, animals are reared well and killed using humane methods. The vegetarian's argument about us meat-lovers being a bunch of uncaring maniacs is now invalid.

 

Therefore, my stand is that there is nothing wrong with eating meat as long as the source of meat is right. Sure, we can survive on plants, but why not eat meat too? It's a personal choice and no one should be judged based on this.

 

Hope I've contributed substantially!

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