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Is murder bad?

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OK, so my TOK teacher seems to think that murder is bad. In any case.

I was a bit confused about her thoughts on her take on murder. Apparently, she thinks "murder is bad" is an eternal justified truth.

There are many justifications for murder, of course. The thing I do not understand is that, if murder is justified, doesn't that make it acceptable, (meaning NOT BAD) and in some cases even good? My TOK teacher thinks it is always bad, even if you justify it. I think otherwise.

We talked about scenarios going from self-defense to varieties of religions. So, is murder always bad? I'd like to hear some opinions! Please and thanks :D

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Murder, in any political system, is bad. This is because you are depriving the person of life, and you do willingly.

If it was unintentional, and, example, your goal was just to harm, but, not to kill, then this is downgraded to a homicide case.

Think of this. If I kill you now, even if it was just an accident, will it be fair? Not at all, right?

But it doesn't mean that you intended to kill me, so, that's why we have a justice system.

So, putting it all together, murder, the willing deprivation of person of his life, per se, is bad. If it was unintentional, then it would become a homicide case, a lower form.

:D

Hope this helps!

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If I recall correctly murder is to kill unlawfully, not kill in the general sense. When one violates the social contract and violates someoneelses right to life in non-justified circumstances I would say it is bad. In short: murder is a specific type of killing: which is usually bad (I try to avoid sweeping statements of eternal truth).

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The point is missed; perhaps I did not clarify. Murder is the ending of a life by killing.

It could be in self defense, killing crazy whackos, etc.

My question is if murder is ALWAYS bad, even if you justify it?

Edited by Capt'n Marth

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then maybe your teacher was strongly religious? it depends on what kind of person you are, your perspectives.

I personally support terrorists who aim to kill stupid corruptors even though they are usually the government. i mean if they corrupt then they're not a good leader. if they treat the country like that, they deserve a punishment, or they deserve to be murdered so to speak (though in this case I'm not particularly talking about capital punishment. it's just one possible example. don't get me wrong PLEASE).

I also support it when somebody who doesn't deserve to live longer is murdered. like thieves, kidnappers, rapists, people who exploit nature or kids, any bad person really.

in those cases I agree with murder. you reminded me of the concept of utilitarianism. aim for the greater good. should you not kill and make people's lives miserable, or should you kill and make people's lives better off?

obviously the latter. murder isn't always bad.

Edited by Desy Glau

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^ to address that, can we all agree that bad= immoral in terms of ethics? Hopefully some common ground can be established.

Personally, I think if some is justified, it's not bad anymore...

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Murder is inherently wrong. If not from the standpoint of religion, look at nature. The most violent that animals and mammals get is usualy during mating season, where they only injure the other male, not kill. And even in the case of territory wars, its not so much murder more than wars like we have today.

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Stop using the word 'murder' because killing has different legal definitions. If you're talking about murder than it is usually unjustified and when it is 'justified' it is for a negative action or intention hence making it a bad thing. Which results in punishment.

I think you mean 'is killing bad?' not murder because you're asking for justifications

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Stop using the word 'murder' because killing has different legal definitions. If you're talking about murder than it is usually unjustified and when it is 'justified' it is for a negative action or intention hence making it a bad thing. Which results in punishment.

I think you mean 'is killing bad?' not murder because you're asking for justifications

Murder is illegal deliberate killing. That is the main definition. How do you know when it is used, it is unjustified? Just because if someone does something illegal, is it always unjustified? And how do you know when it is justified, it is for a negative action or intention? I am not religious, I stick with dictionary definitions. Apparently biblical references assume the intention, but dictionary is something we can all agree upon.

My teacher specificly said murder, not killing, but I suppose that she could have interchanged them. For example, if a robber broke into my home and threatened to kill my family, and I killed him, is that not illegal killing (murder)? But don't I have a justified reason for it?

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Stop using the word 'murder' because killing has different legal definitions. If you're talking about murder than it is usually unjustified and when it is 'justified' it is for a negative action or intention hence making it a bad thing. Which results in punishment.

I think you mean 'is killing bad?' not murder because you're asking for justifications

Murder is illegal deliberate killing. That is the main definition. How do you know when it is used, it is unjustified? Just because if someone does something illegal, is it always unjustified? And how do you know when it is justified, it is for a negative action or intention? I am not religious, I stick with dictionary definitions. Apparently biblical references assume the intention, but dictionary is something we can all agree upon.

My teacher specificly said murder, not killing, but I suppose that she could have interchanged them. For example, if a robber broke into my home and threatened to kill my family, and I killed him, is that not illegal killing (murder)? But don't I have a justified reason for it?

Hence why there is court. Court is meant to decide whether the justification has poor taste or poor intentions. Plus the legal dictionary is debated all the time, which is why there are different degrees of killing. You rarely get cases where someone is jailed for murder when it is for a good intention (which is something the court decides). If i killed someone through self defence, i could go to jail for murder because you're only meant to defend yourself with enough force to get them away from you and remove the danger to yourself. Would you call it murder if killing the person was deemed necessary?

It doesn't matter whether you are religious or not, murder as defined by the law in the right circumstances is wrong... hence the punishment part. That is of course if you base murder and stuff on law instead of religion.

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I don't think absolute moral judgments in this context are justifiable.

On the other hand, if you think of a functioning society and what it enables the individual to do, there's an argument to be made for compromising various liberties for the collective good. And any society without a fundamental law against murder would be deeply dysfunctional. This is a good way to look at religions too; for example, part of the reason that Christianity and Islam are such major worldwide religions is that they both have taboos on both murder and suicide.

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When there is a cause like Lars Breivik had then murder is justified.

Have you read Woman at Point Zero where Firdaus killed her pimp to become a free human being, there was a cause since the social laws were depicted worthless compared to her and her life. She did not want mercy because the murder above any worth of a man or law against her. She was executed. :)

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yes it is bad in terms of ethics, but then again if you have a good reason for killing someone like maybe they killed your family (taking example from the Mentalist, they maybe it's not SO bad because you're justifying it and i think that's a good enough reason. But then again, it shouldn't become like a trend, oh this guy f*cked with me, i should go kill him. But no, murder isn't always bad unless you can justify it and it's strong enough, like the self-defense one, it's either you get killed or the dude does, so it's like survival of the fittest? hope i made sense :blink: I mean that's my opinion though.

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It depends on how you view it. If viewed from a deontologist standpoint, then yes it is always bad, no matter what. For example, Kant, probably the most well-known deontologist, would say that killing is always wrong. However, from a utilitarian standpoint, it is okay to kill someone about to kill many other people, if it would benefit more people. Then again, you can always just say screw it and argue determinism.

Edited by chenry

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When there is a cause like Lars Breivik had then murder is justified.

Have you read Woman at Point Zero where Firdaus killed her pimp to become a free human being, there was a cause since the social laws were depicted worthless compared to her and her life. She did not want mercy because the murder above any worth of a man or law against her. She was executed. :)

Who the hell is Lars Breivik? I hope u dont mean Anders Breivik, the guy who committed mass murder in Norway...

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I think that murder is bad in the sense that you are ending someone else's life, despite who it is or what they've done. But at the same time there are so many scenarios where not only is murder acceptable, but it is considered good. For example, war, it is fighting for ones country, but even if one is prepared to die for his country, that doesn't always mean he's prepared to kill for his country. Also, as you said in self deffense, you might not intend it, but you had no choice.

Another example is literature, where murder often times is justified and even a source of freedom depending on the author.

All I'm saying is, no, murder is not ALWAYS bad, just sad.

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