Are I-B Students Elitist?

[catatouille]

My school only offers the IB program, so within the school there's no elitist problem, but within the community I think there is. Since it's an only English-speaking school in Germany, the only kids who attend it are either expats from other countries whose companies pay for the tuition (like me lol) or upper-class locals who pay on their own. But from my experience it seems that the community sees us all as spoiled brats and I think are angry that an English education is held higher than a German one. Not that that's true, but I guess it's similar to the nationalism blindpet mentioned.

[jasmine]

Good Evening good people at I-B survival, I bring a question that needs to be answered in my books anyways. Are we Elitist? Do we think we are better than "other" students? My school is split between the I-B curriculum and the regular provincial curriculum (I go to a public school that offers IB), they are both taught in my school and it seems that we as an entity in the school look down upon the individuals that are taking the Provincial Curriculum. Does this occur all over the world or is My school in Canada like Frasier Crane and The Trailer Park Boys going to the same school?

well in India too IB students are considered elitists,the reason is that IB education in India is very expensive therefore many people cant afford it. Only the elitist can afford to do IB.

[meganeloise]

I go to a private all girls school in New Zealand which offers both is IB and NCEA programs.

I'm doing IB next year, and I would say it's a bit elitist, at my school they treat you like a golden girl if you do IB, and you get a better locker. A better locker!

[uummmdonuts1]

In my school the year above are very elitist. They think they are amazing. Our years ok i think. I don't think i'm elitist, some of the cleverest people in my school do A-levels and yeh, they have way less homework, but I also have more free periods. i don't think IB students should be elitist, although quite a lot of them are.

[uummmdonuts1]

our school also gives special treatment to those doing IB. They love it. Thats probably what led to the year above thinking they were awesome.

[TeeBlake]

Good Evening good people at I-B survival, I bring a question that needs to be answered in my books anyways. Are we Elitist? Do we think we are better than "other" students? My school is split between the I-B curriculum and the regular provincial curriculum (I go to a public school that offers IB), they are both taught in my school and it seems that we as an entity in the school look down upon the individuals that are taking the Provincial Curriculum. Does this occur all over the world or is My school in Canada like Frasier Crane and The Trailer Park Boys going to the same school?

I would describe IB students as more motivated, but I know what you mean, btw, I'm in a public school in Vancouver, so we're in the same country...

what happens in our school is that people in the provincial program automatically assume that IB kids are smart...and since most of the people, by second year are full diploma students (the small portion of certificates gave up after one year of IB), so we're pretty much isolated from the school, we don't know anyone from outside...

one other thing i hate the most, you guys know that stereotype that asians are smart? yeah, that's the problem in our school, basically,, if you're asian (particularly Chinese) you must be a full diploma student, it so dumb, and there is this really smart guy in our school, i think he believes in IB Elitism, he tries so hard in IB because he wants to rely on his report card grades to get into university, so i got curious and ask him why he would want to do IB when his mark would be so much higher, he said "i don't want to be wiht stupid people"...that ticked me off a bit

my venting went a bit off track, but i think IB is not for "smart people" it's for motivated people who can manage their time well enough to handle the workload...to be honest, if you're planning on going in university, you have to face the same material anyway, there is no smart people

my venting is done, i don't think we're elitists, i'm not a smart person, i know that, i would struggle, even in provincial program, but i try hard to keep my mark up in IB...i'm not "betteR" than other people, i'm only more motivated and make good use of my time...

[heronumbazero]

It depends. I see the trend that the newbies who come into IB are all like yeah, we're the best. We're so smart we got into IB. But by the time one year has passed, they are cursing it. It might be like an initiation thing, who knows.

Some, even at the cursing stage, are Elitists. Like this one guy, all he is doing is Art IB. He is all like, yea, I'm the best. I'm in Art IB.

Well, my friend, its not like you really did IB.

[youcantstopthebeat]

My school is split between the I-B curriculum and the regular provincial curriculum

Same with my school. About less than 1/4 of the students in my year do IB, the rest do the other one (SACE).

Most of us don't think that we're better than the others (although there are a few who seem to think they are) but I think that it is the course itself which is seen as inferior, which is why some people sometimes refer to changing from IB to SACE as 'dropping down'.

But that does not mean to say that the two groups aren't different. I've found that there are more people in IB who are willing to work hard, or are sometimes considered smarter, than there are in the other group, as IB does seem like the harder course and people who choose to take it are aware of this and are willing to do it.

Sometimes our teachers make jokes about IB students being 'elitist' but although there are many smart people doing IB, I don't necessarily see IB students as better than the other students.

[ma3zooz]

you know what I did IB and I looking back I was an elitist.. in fact our whole class was.. we'd joke about it as if we were kidding..but i believe deep down we all thought of ourselves as smarter than "the others" ... maybe its because we get certain privileges other students dont such as wondering around the halls (which is a big no-no... unless ur IB off course).. people just expect us to be smarter and more mature.. which we are.. its not about looking down at people.. its just that we've experienced much more and have broader horizons than most of "the others"..

you can't help feeling like an elitist when "the others" dont even come close to your workload or your open-mindedness..

a lot of people will say they didnt feel elite.. well i say thats a lie.. because you cant help it when youre put in something like a "special-group".. and when teachers fuel your elite-ness as well..

[moneyfaery]

so i got curious and ask him why he would want to do IB when his mark would be so much higher

I disagree with that. If you can work the system, your translated marks will and should be higher than provincial marks. Ex: Try getting 98%+ in math. Due to the sheer volume of assessments, it's easy to mess up and decrease your mark. A level 7 on the other hand would most likely be 98%. Although this could just be Ontario's inflated translation...

a lot of people will say they didnt feel elite.. well i say thats a lie.. because you cant help it when youre put in something like a "special-group".. and when teachers fuel your elite-ness as well..

The fact that people are all... OOHHH, YOU'RE LIKE, IN SOME SMART PROGRAM, EH? when you tell them about IB doesn't help. I try to be like "yeah whatever, it's not a big deal" when I meet new people or they start to act funny. ~_~

[Mr. Shiver]

The teachers don't really fuel that perception, though. In my experience they just tell us we're no better if not worse than the regulars.

[moneyfaery]

The teachers don't really fuel that perception, though. In my experience they just tell us we're no better if not worse than the regulars.

Yes, but how often do the teachers tell us that? At the start of the year, maybe once or twice during the year? Compared to whenever you meet a new person... ~_~

[cereja]

I disagree with that. If you can work the system, your translated marks will and should be higher than provincial marks. Ex: Try getting 98%+ in math. Due to the sheer volume of assessments, it's easy to mess up and decrease your mark. A level 7 on the other hand would most likely be 98%. Although this could just be Ontario's inflated translation...

We don't get translated marks. We gotta work our butts off because otherwise we fail. No curves.

[moneyfaery]

We don't get translated marks. We gotta work our butts off because otherwise we fail. No curves.

Is that recognized by universities? Because if unis think that there's no difference between say, a 90% in IB and a 90% in a non-IB, I don't see the point of IB. You could always learn the material on your own if you wanted to. D;

[Vvi]

(To qualify the strange nature of this post, I am Finnish but live in Jerusalem.)

My school offers full IB and IB certificates. In my class of 11 there 7 of us taking the full diploma, and 4 who aren't. My school is international and does not have a selective policy on applicants.

I honestly get very irritated with the non-diploma takers, because they complain so much about their workload (which includes CAS by school policy, but not EE or TOK). Some of them are only taking 4 certificates, and think that they are still on the same level of stress as us. As a point, all the non-diploma people in my class are not good at school and are going to the US so they think that the SAT is more important.

The full diploma people in my class, including me, DO look down on the others for this reason. The American School in Tel Aviv has no IB, only AP classes and I read online that they are less difficult than IB. So I look down on them slightly too.

My mother found out from an IB Maths teacher in Finland that IB SL Maths (not Studies) is equivalent to studying HL math in Finnish high school, and that IB HL Maths= university math in Finland. I used to have a great respect for the Finnish educational system, because students study 3-4 languages in primary school and they have a very selective process for applying to IB schools and other institutions for the last 3 years of high school. This respect has gone down to normal levels now, but I still think that their policy on making students learn so many languages is better than the IB one. Of course it's unfair on those who aren't good at languages, but it's embarrassing to know only one language fluently in today's world (not to be condescending to anyone. I only just pass this qualification, knowing 2 fluently.

[deissi]

My mother found out from an IB Maths teacher in Finland that IB SL Maths (not Studies) is equivalent to studying HL math in Finnish high school, and that IB HL Maths= university math in Finland.

Nope. SL is about 3/4 of "Pitkä matematiikka", or the Finnish higher level for Math. IB HL Math is equivalent to 1.5x the Finnish Pitkä matematiikka. So yes, to some extent, IB HL Math is university math. However, one does always have the option of taking the "Erikoispitkä matematiikka" or "further math". This would also be true in the case of A Levels, where A Level Mathematics isn't equivalent to IB HL Math. They also have Further Mathematics as an A Level subject.

I used to have a great respect for the Finnish educational system, because students study 3-4 languages in primary school and they have a very selective process for applying to IB schools and other institutions for the last 3 years of high school. This respect has gone down to normal levels now, but I still think that their policy on making students learn so many languages is better than the IB one. Of course it's unfair on those who aren't good at languages, but it's embarrassing to know only one language fluently in today's world (not to be condescending to anyone. I only just pass this qualification, knowing 2 fluently.

I beg to differ with the part about a very selective process. True, it is selective for the best schools, Helsingin Suomalainen Yhteiskoulu and Ressu (and especially their IB programmes), but for any other high school in Finland I would not call it selective. Sure, the grade required for admission varies for each school, but they're low enough to admit any student who has bothered to study in middle school. It is true that the Finnish system strongly pushes students to studying languages. A smart decision for a country whose native language is only spoken by 5 million people in the world. However, I wouldn't call it unfair to those who do not understand languages, as the only obligatory language to study is Swedish (due to historical reasons). Therefore, one is only obligated to study a few courses of Swedish in high school should he/she not wish to study languages. However, 99.7% of all students study English (at a level significantly higher than English B HL) in addition to Swedish, and I daresay at least two thirds have a third language in addition to these.

[deissi]

My mother found out from an IB Maths teacher in Finland that IB SL Maths (not Studies) is equivalent to studying HL math in Finnish high school, and that IB HL Maths= university math in Finland.

Nope. SL is about 3/4 of "Pitkä matematiikka", or the Finnish higher level for Math. IB HL Math is equivalent to 1.5x the Finnish Pitkä matematiikka. So yes, to some extent, IB HL Math is university math. However, one does always have the option of taking the "Erikoispitkä matematiikka" or "further math". This would also be true in the case of A Levels, where A Level Mathematics isn't equivalent to IB HL Math. They also have Further Mathematics as an A Level subject.

I used to have a great respect for the Finnish educational system, because students study 3-4 languages in primary school and they have a very selective process for applying to IB schools and other institutions for the last 3 years of high school. This respect has gone down to normal levels now, but I still think that their policy on making students learn so many languages is better than the IB one. Of course it's unfair on those who aren't good at languages, but it's embarrassing to know only one language fluently in today's world (not to be condescending to anyone. I only just pass this qualification, knowing 2 fluently.

I beg to differ with the part about a very selective process. True, it is selective for the best schools, Ressu and Helsingin Suomalainen Yhteiskoulu (and their IB programmes), but for any other high school in Finland I would not call it selective. Sure, the grade required for admission varies for each school, but they're low enough to admit any student who has bothered to study in middle school. It is true that the Finnish system strongly pushes students to studying languages. A smart decision for a country whose native language is only spoken by 5 million people in the world. However, I wouldn't call it unfair to those who do not understand languages, as the only obligatory language to study is Swedish (due to historical reasons). Therefore, one is only obligated to study a few courses of Swedish in high school should he/she not wish to study languages. However, 99.7% of all students study English in addition to Swedish, and I daresay at least two thirds have a third language. For example, a friend of mine is doing English, German and French at a B HL (or HL+ for English) level, Swedish at a B SL level and Spanish at ab initio level. In addition to traditional academics, of course.

This said, Finnish IB students do look down on Finnish Ylioppilastutkinto students (not to mention vocational ones), mainly because IB students are a lot more ambitious than the average Finnish line student. The Finnish system is still great, especially compared to the Swedish one which really is a joke.

[Vvi]

I meant that the selective process for those schools and Sykki included is very hard. But I think that even the process of applying to "lukio" or high school is elitist, because in many other countries you just automatically pass through. My school here in Jeruisalem has no criteria for who gets to take IB, but of course teachers don't recommend it to people who have D's in all subjects.

I would think that people attending university in Finland would look down more upon people who don't attend, because at least according to the Helsinki University site in 2006 they had about 2000 applicants and only selected 200 of them. If I got into university there, I would be extremely happy (and also maybe elitist).

Here, Israeli schools actually look down on us for doing IB, since there are only 2 IB schools in the whole country and it's not well-known. And we have very few Israelis in school, they prefer their own method of education (which seems to work, all of their universities here are in the world's top 500, even the small ones).

[monica]

Hmm....elitists? It's amazing that the same "conflicts" take place all over the world between the IB students and the regular ones. In my school everybody has to take the national baccalaureate (it's a public school), but you have the possibility to have the IB as well. So there are two classes every year who do them both. So the others not only find it completely unnecessary, but also too complicated. And if I think about it, it even took me a long time to finally understand how things work.

And back to the elitism... I think we feel special, as someone mentioned before. And even if we keep complaining about the amount of extra work we have to do, we enjoy the feeling that in the end we did it right. And this contributes to our ego. Not to mention TOK....

[Clla]

well, IB is definitely considered a hard curriculum, but i think IB studnets are not necessarily elitist.

maybe IB students tend to look down upon those who are in easier curriculum, but actually, taking a harder program doesn't mean that we are smarter than them.. sadly.

i think getting a high grade in IB only makes us a real elitist.. i don't know, i just feel that IB is a tough program, but I don't know if it'll really give advantages to us, or make us more special so we can look down upon other students.