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Hey, does anyboy have any insights as to what University is best for undergrad Law/International relations in Australia? I am open for all suggestions. I can find the atars, etc. I am just wondering if anyone has any advice for choosing a uni.

Cheers!

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Undergradute, hmmm.... From what I know ANU is number 1 in Aus for international law, as timtamboy hinted at. Monash is solid, but not exceptional. Unfortunately, I don't know much outside of Vic, but if USyd and UNSW have undergrad law programs I would be inclined to believe they would be good.

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ANU- however that is only if you want to live in a hole, with no social contact outside the campus.... USYD is a better option in my opinion, you stay in sydney and although its a little on the preppy side, it has great teachers etc. Better yet, go to USA like me :P

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ANU- however that is only if you want to live in a hole, with no social contact outside the campus.... USYD is a better option in my opinion, you stay in sydney and although its a little on the preppy side, it has great teachers etc. Better yet, go to USA like me :P

I would go to Sydney but the entrance for Law/International Studies is 44, which is just ridiculour. ANU is 37, which I think I am capable of. I would go overseas but I am no where near to affording it! I am trying the whole 'independence' thing, so hecs debt it is...

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Nanon, keep in mind that although the entrance is 37 at ANU, you'll likely need much higher to get in, I'd be aiming 41+. ANU is/was the best university in Australia (beaten by University of Melbourne in 2012), so it is very competitive.

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ANU- however that is only if you want to live in a hole, with no social contact outside the campus.... USYD is a better option in my opinion, you stay in sydney and although its a little on the preppy side, it has great teachers etc. Better yet, go to USA like me :P

I would go to Sydney but the entrance for Law/International Studies is 44, which is just ridiculour. ANU is 37, which I think I am capable of. I would go overseas but I am no where near to affording it! I am trying the whole 'independence' thing, so hecs debt it is...

I was going to say UniMelb, but if you're taking HECS that's not possible, as from what I remember it doesn't count their JD program. It pretty much leaves you to undergrads; ANU and Monash come to mind if USyd's requirements are out of reach. ANU is better academically, Monash is better society-wise in terms of student body. And, of course, Monash is in one of the world's most livable cities whilst ANU is in the middle of nowhere.

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Also, I have a friend that's going there. It's really not as anti-social as everyone makes it out to be. Parties every week, and the campus is the main hub for anyone looking to have fun (not much clubbing, etc).

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Nanon, keep in mind that although the entrance is 37 at ANU, you'll likely need much higher to get in, I'd be aiming 41+. ANU is/was the best university in Australia (beaten by University of Melbourne in 2012), so it is very competitive.

I agree in part with this, ANU's listed requirements appear to resemble moreso their standard offer, rather than their minimum-for-consideration or clearly-in CSP. So, while a 37 could get you in, it is not a certitude. I don't think, however, if that was their standard offer, that 41+ would be necessary. Of course, aim for it, but there doesn't appear to be any such requirement.

If you're expecting around 37 and that turns out insufficient for ANU, Deakin may end up being your best bet. Unfortunately, Monash decide to go the stupid route of converting to ATAR, which equates a relatively-easy 98.2, their clearly-in score, with an IB 40-41, depending on the year. I always hear good things about UQ, however their website does not list an IB score requirement, leading me to believe they convert to ATAR as well, in which case their entry requirement of 97.5 probably will translate to 39-40 IB. Deakin don't post their score requirements on their website from what I can discern, but they generally require an ATAR of like 93-95 according to word-of-mouth, so 35-37 IB.

Edited by Tony Stark

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As far as the social aspect is concerned, apparently ANU is not too bad (obviously not as great as somewhere in Sydney or Melbourne) because most of the students come from interstate, therefore the on-campus life is pretty fun. This is just what I have heard though.

Does anyone know what the student life is like at ANU, or other universities? Like, the Student Association, different clubs, extra-curriculur opportunities, etc. What Uni is the best for that?

btw, ANU is only 3 hours away from Sydney, I wouldnt call it the middle of nowhere.

Edited by nanon

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In case you didn't know, you have to study undergraduate law in Australia as a double degree. I study a Bachelor of Science and Bachelor of Laws at Sydney Uni. I have three IB friends that also study law, one at ANU, one at UWS and the third at UNSW. To put this in context, every one of us put Sydney as our first choice on our Uni application. In fact, I don't know a single person who didn't put Sydney as their first choice, irrespective of the course for which they applied. The simple fact is that the debate between ANU and Sydney is like the debate between Michael-Angelo and Da Vinci -- both are fantastic, but we all secretly know that Da Vinci is better. Why? For starters, Sydney has renown. It's an arrogant thing to say, but it doesn't change the fact that employers look more favourably at Sydney graduates than any other uni graduates. Whether this is justified or not, it's a fact.

In the early days of our degree, we swapped law notes between friends to help our study, but we soon found that each uni went at different speeds and (as was universally acknowledged), Sydney expected - and got - more from its students. My friend from UNSW really wanted to transfer to Sydney, despite the fact that UNSW is considered by Sydney-siders to be the 'runner up' to Sydney in the best Law School.

I know this sounds completely pompous and obnoxious, but you'd be hard pressed to find a lawyer that didn't agree. My father is a Barrister in Sydney, and I can assure you that Sydney is regarded as the best Uni in Australia, and with the highest rapport. Here's a section I dragon dropped from Wikipedia --

"Over its 150 year history, Sydney Law School has produced a diverse and prominent group of alumni. It has produced four prime ministers and 23 out of 41 justices of the High Court. Many justices of the Supreme Court of New South Wales are alumni of Sydney Law School. There is also a justice of the Constitutional Court of South Africa among the ranks of Sydney Law School alumni."

There are also 3 High Court Judges on the Alumni.

Basically, anyone who's someone in the Australian legal community went to Sydney. I have friends who have transferred to Sydney that have told me that Sydney law was much more rigorous than their previous institutions.

That being said, ANU and UNSW are both absolutely fantastic uni's with wonderful law programs! They are both very highly regarded in Australia, and Australian university education, whatever the institution, is excellent as a rule. I feel that Sydney has the best Law school from my experience and I would suggest that this is the predominant opinion in legal circles. However, as all the law schools are pretty fantastic, I would recommend choosing a Uni on the basis of the environment in which you choose to live.

ANU is very fun! Canberra tends to have a lot of festivals and touristy things to do. It can be a little isolated and 'country town-ish' when you're used to the big city (and also cold!) but if you find a good circle of friends, it is a wonderful, beautiful place to live.

UNSW is in Ryde, and anyone who doesn't live in Ryde generally hates the fact that it is in Ryde -- it's not on a train line. The Law facilities are very new, but I don't think the student amenities are all that brilliant. Despite this, it's a great place to be if you live on campus.

USYD is big on societies. Chocsoc (chocolate society) and the Captain Planet Appreciation Society are two of my favourites. There are bars, shops, news agencies, doctors, cafes whatever on campus. It's built for the student life. The law building is brand new with fantastic services and Fisher library is currently undergoing a modernisation explosion. Just as an aside, I LOVE the buildings. They are simply stunning, and every time I see them I feel how honoured I am to be part of this legacy of learning. It's right in Sydney, so Concerts, Plays and Movies galore! Food heaven also. Not that I'm biased :)

All the best with your choice!

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Quite a NSW-biased viewpoint, there. For starters, you CAN study straight law, it's just not offered in NSW. Also, the University of Melbourne would probably have something to say in response to your exaggerations. And I think you'll find the key link between truly successful Australian barristers and Jurors is not their undergraduate institution, but rather an Oxbridge postgraduate education.

USyd ranks quite poorly in law tables in recent years; but I wouldn't put much stock in them, anyways. USyd and UniMelb will always take the crown domestically simply due to history (from it spawning an alumni network and larger financial allocation) and location, but it appears you're missing the point: Sydney requires a 44 and Melbourne requires a 44-45 for guaranteed entry into law on CSP, both which the OP believe to be out of reach. Generally the rule of thumb is to take whichever university has the higher requirements, unless of course you don't have the scores.

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Thanks for the advice.

To Tony Stark- Melbourne doesn't have undergraduate anymore, and so that is why it is often not considered in people's choices (including my own), as many people like the law/other combo

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I know that; however their Core Degree --> JD program is only cosmetically different from a Law dual-degree, although unless you score 44+ you have to sit the LSAT and write a personal statement for entry into the JD.

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Yeah, but according to every law student that I've talked to, taking a full load of law subjects can be dry, especially in the first few semesters. Law/sometingelse provides variation

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To Tony Stark --

Sorry! I should have prefaced my response by saying that I was only talking about NSW, because I didn't want to comment on institutions I knew nothing about! It was a pretty strong reaction, but I guess I didn't want people to rely too heavily on the rankings which don't really represent local opinion and national understanding about the most desirable uni in the region. I've heard the Melbourne and WA uni's are really excellent also, but it seemed to me that the conversation was quite NSW oriented.

Nanon -- don't give up trying your best! If you love your subjects and know your syllabus, you can do well enoughto get in! I know an IB class in NSW, where 4 (or 5?) students in the same grade got 45s! If you give up on doing well now, you never will do well! Good luck!

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