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I am not a Christian, and many people think worse of me. Should I think worse of myself?


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I disagree with your logic. I'm a christian, but one thing that I learned from my 3 years of going to a christian school is that you cannot prove that doesn't exist. You can't prove God does exist either. That's why they call it faith. There are no facts or logic. You have your own free will to choose.

Personally, I've always found this view strange. It follows the logic of "guilty until proven contrary" instead of "not guilty until proven contrary." Doesn't this give me the right to argue that you believe in the wrong God? Also, would you not agree that that going to a Christian school might give you a somewhat biased view of the matter?

I wouldn't say that so confidently...unless you want to be plagued, swept in darkness, burned by the sun, be sent to hell, be separated from God for eternity (which is a long time), and be bitten by demonic locusts...It's your choice, but I would give this some thought if I were you...He will never leave you hanging, so don't leave Him hanging

Look mate, it's not like we're telling you that Atheists will torture you when they prove that God doesn't exist. (this is on a hypothetical level) So just think about what you're saying, is that the right way to go? Besides, what ever happened to the good and merciful God that at least Lutheran priests keep preaching about?

Lucky is exactly the opposite dude...I was born into this world with sin, I accepted Jesus as my savior and Christ, that He rose, that He conquered death, that I can spend eternity with this being that controlls every part of my life...As for you...have fun with all the plagues that God plans on pouring out on the earth on anyone who has not accepted Him...I respect that you are a muslim, but please rethink this...You know why Christianity is different? Our God rose from the dead. No other god or gods have done that. That's what separates us...

Ok well there's really no point in that. Any self-respecting muslim can counter your argument, so with my lacking knowledge of Islam, I won't even give it a try.

I'd like to see you say that in front of the Almighty God. When the rapture happens, the next 7 years are gonna be worse then Hell for you and everyone here on this forum who doesn't believe in Christ.

Thankfully it's only the people on this forum, we would really be screwed if it were the whole world (except the Christians). By the way, isn't it a bit ironic that it will be worse than hell?

I dare you to read the Bible. The book of Revaltion. Chapters 6,7,8,9. That tells you about all the plagues and the wrath of God. Don't feel bad about not believing in God? I don't think that you'll be saying that once you read what will happen if you don't read about it.

I flipped through the book and I could only find The Book of Revelation. Maybe you have a different edition?

Agreed. You have your own free will. The only thing I disagree about though is that you're saying that you should get mixed in with the world. to not stand out. to follow the examples of the world. You're gonna want to accept God and not turn from Him. You're gonna wish you hadn't after the rapture. Trust me.

Again, what happened to that merciful God?

hey guys no hard feeling but, for those people who are agnostic, i think you should spend a little of you time in reading about religions (Islam, Buddhism, Christianity) and you will surely find your way out.

In my opinion, I'm very well familiar with Christianity, but admittedly not that familiar with Buddhism or Islam. However, I find it strange that we should 'find our way out.' At least I am perfectly happy without a real religion...

I'll also reply to Hien's post below, don't want to make a new post:

even in the Bible which is the best selling book of all time

I feel obliged to let you know that the Ikea catalogue has surpassed the Bible as the number one. It's still a good number two, though!

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I really wasn't going to get into this discussion but I have to say this. dragonb111, I find it extremely ironic and amusing that you are, in fact, contradicting yourself.

You said:

But still, you have a point. No one should pressure anyone to forcibly choose to be a christian or whatever. That's our own choice.

Then, you read that syrianstar said:

Just remember that it is your decision so choose what suits you and your way of life the most and don't get influenced by what other people say.

...to the above, you replied with:

I wouldn't say that so confidently...unless you want to be plagued, swept in darkness, burned by the sun, be sent to hell, be separated from God for eternity (which is a long time), and be bitten by demonic locusts...It's your choice, but I would give this some thought if I were you...He will never leave you hanging, so don't leave Him hanging

...where you are basically telling us that Christianity is the only way to go. You also go on with the following preaching, where basically you are emphasising your last point:

Lucky is exactly the opposite dude...I was born into this world with sin, I accepted Jesus as my savior and Christ, that He rose, that He conquered death, that I can spend eternity with this being that controlls every part of my life...As for you...have fun with all the plagues that God plans on pouring out on the earth on anyone who has not accepted Him...I respect that you are a muslim, but please rethink this...You know why Christianity is different? Our God rose from the dead. No other god or gods have done that. That's what separates us...

I'd like to see you say that in front of the Almighty God. When the rapture happens, the next 7 years are gonna be worse then Hell for you and everyone here on this forum who doesn't believe in Christ.

Please turn back...God is still there, He is still knocking, waiting for you...He will never leave, please rethink this. There may not be much time left. Please think again...He will never forsake you...This is the biggest thing that could ever happen in your life...

I dare you to read the Bible. The book of Revaltion. Chapters 6,7,8,9. That tells you about all the plagues and the wrath of God. Don't feel bad about not believing in God? I don't think that you'll be saying that once you read what will happen if you don't read about it.

I'll have you know, I own a Bible. My (Christian) friend gave it to me for a present, she gave it to me because she knows I enjoy reading and wanted to give me the book that was closest to her heart. But the difference between you and her is that she never told me I have to read it and believe it or I go to hell.

Anyway, I had a skim through what you suggested (I won't make fun of your typo as deissi did) and really saw little to convince me either way. Interesting read, I'll give you that. But not very convincing.

I think one of the things you will learn, my friend, in IB and TOK especially, is this: just because it's written down in books (even in the Bible which is the best selling book of all time) and however many people believe it, all this doesn't make something true, or a fact. Nor can it pressure other people who don't believe it in to suddenly turn around and do, if they are not inclined to. Yes, religion relies on faith, and as such, you can't make someone believe something. The tone of your last post (and your other posts) makes me feel that that is exactly what you are trying to do. Take a word of advice, it's not going to work. Trust me. You have your belief, we will respect that if you don't speak as if you think we are all idiots or otherwise lacking in not having a religion.

Agreed. You have your own free will. The only thing I disagree about though is that you're saying that you should get mixed in with the world. to not stand out. to follow the examples of the world. You're gonna want to accept God and not turn from Him. You're gonna wish you hadn't after the rapture. Trust me.

You totally missed my point. If you reread my post, you'll find I said that you shouldn't be pressed to be mixed into the world of religion.

PS: Please don't post seven posts in a row. There is an edit button for a reason. There is also a +Quote button for a reason. If you want to quote more than 1 post in a reply, click +Quote on each of the posts you want to quote, then click Add reply.

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I grow more weary of organized religion every day, in large part because of the glaring hypocrisy we just witnessed. Followers of them tend to be totally confused regarding how they feel about individuals who don't share their beliefs.

Our humanity should not have to be measured by our faith.

Edited by Mr. Shiver
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Guest dragonb111
I really wasn't going to get into this discussion but I have to say this. dragonb111, I find it extremely ironic and amusing that you are, in fact, contradicting yourself.

You said:

Then, you read that syrianstar said:

...to the above, you replied with:

...where you are basically telling us that Christianity is the only way to go. You also go on with the following preaching, where basically you are emphasising your last point:

I'll have you know, I own a Bible. My (Christian) friend gave it to me for a present, she gave it to me because she knows I enjoy reading and wanted to give me the book that was closest to her heart. But the difference between you and her is that she never told me I have to read it and believe it or I go to hell.

Anyway, I had a skim through what you suggested (I won't make fun of your typo as deissi did) and really saw little to convince me either way. Interesting read, I'll give you that. But not very convincing.

I think one of the things you will learn, my friend, in IB and TOK especially, is this: just because it's written down in books (even in the Bible which is the best selling book of all time) and however many people believe it, all this doesn't make something true, or a fact. Nor can it pressure other people who don't believe it in to suddenly turn around and do, if they are not inclined to. Yes, religion relies on faith, and as such, you can't make someone believe something. The tone of your last post (and your other posts) makes me feel that that is exactly what you are trying to do. Take a word of advice, it's not going to work. Trust me. You have your belief, we will respect that if you don't speak as if you think we are all idiots or otherwise lacking in not having a religion.

You totally missed my point. If you reread my post, you'll find I said that you shouldn't be pressed to be mixed into the world of religion.

PS: Please don't post seven posts in a row. There is an edit button for a reason. There is also a +Quote button for a reason. If you want to quote more than 1 post in a reply, click +Quote on each of the posts you want to quote, then click Add reply.

sorry forgot about the edit thing...anyway...let me say this, I believe in Christ from experience. It has nothing to do with being born from a Christian Family as I might've stated before that was my fault. I wasn't thinking before acting. I have been convinced through everyday miracles. If you just give God a chance, you'd see why I believe in Him. When the time comes, you're gonna wish you had been mixed into the world of religion. Once again, I'm sorry about the number of posts in a row. I also apologize for not thinking before acting and contradicting myself, not that that's your fault or anything. I'll think a little next time for once. Oh and another thing. Make you read the Bible? I'm making a suggestion dude. There's gonna be a test in the end. That's what I mean. I'm suggesting that you prepare yourself as I am now.

BTW. Just to break away from this arguement (if you can even call it that), did you notice that we were both born on the same day? lol

And thanks for not making fun of my typo. I appreciate that.

I grow more weary of organized religion every day, in large part because of the glaring hypocrisy we just witnessed. Followers of them tend to be totally confused regarding how they feel about individuals who don't share their beliefs.

I am confused. There's a lot that I don't know about the Bible. Tell you the truth, this forum made me realize that it's guys like me that cause chaos and disruption. I jump to conclusions early and regrett it later. So to add to the mysteries of the Bible, I am still confused about this life I live.

Edited by dragonb111
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Hmmm ... I think I just accidentally deleted your reply to deissi's post...Well, not exactly deleted. Must had merged the posts at the same time you were editing and the edits clashed and thus deleted the whole part reply to deissi. -_- Sorry guys. This is why I shouldn't do thing at 7:30 in the morning.

Anyway the only thing I remember from the post that answered deissi's post is that you wondered whether all IB schools and students thought like this. Not believing in god really has nothing to do with IB itself...though I suppose IB does teach you to think more liberally, widen your perspective and teach you appreciate the fact that not everyone in the world believe what you believe.

Anyway, I shall resign from this discussion now because quite frankly it's not going to get us anywhere. This thread could go on for another hundred pages and you'll go on believing what you believe and we'll go on our merry ways not believing what you believe...

BTW. Just to break away from this arguement (if you can even call it that), did you notice that we were both born on the same day? lol

Yes I noticed

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Guest dragonb111
Hmmm ... I think I just accidentally deleted your reply to deissi's post...Well, not exactly deleted. Must had merged the posts at the same time you were editing and the edits clashed and thus deleted the whole part reply to deissi. -_- Sorry guys. This is why I shouldn't do thing at 7:30 in the morning.

Anyway the only thing I remember from the post that answered deissi's post is that you wondered whether all IB schools and students thought like this. Not believing in god really has nothing to do with IB itself...though I suppose IB does teach you to think more liberally, widen your perspective and teach you appreciate the fact that not everyone in the world believe what you believe.

Anyway, I shall resign from this discussion now because quite frankly it's not going to get us anywhere. This thread could go on for another hundred pages and you'll go on believing what you believe and we'll go on our merry ways not believing what you believe...

Yes I noticed

I can't not agree with your discision. I can't force God into anyone's life if they really don't want it. I guess IB's gonna be different from the past 3 years...oh well. I just gotta live with it. Thanks for making me realize that not everyone is the same and that you can't force something like this into someone else's life. thanks. But I really can't give up....

Edited by dragonb111
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I wouldn't say that so confidently...unless you want to be plagued, swept in darkness, burned by the sun, be sent to hell, be separated from God for eternity (which is a long time), and be bitten by demonic locusts...It's your choice, but I would give this some thought if I were you...He will never leave you hanging, so don't leave Him hanging

so... i think i know i will not turn back to god... while i do not hold your ideals as the same as the majority of christians, i do believe they resemble those of the crusades, the inquisition, and other battles over religion which (as it was so well put in FAMILY GUY) is conform or be punished, killed, and judged unfairly.

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so... i think i know i will not turn back to god... while i do not hold your ideals as the same as the majority of christians, i do believe they resemble those of the crusades, the inquisition, and other battles over religion which (as it was so well put in FAMILY GUY) is conform or be punished, killed, and judged unfairly.

How is that being unfairly judged I ask? You choose not to believe. God does have to judge when the time comes, which is probably not long from now (but who knows). Family Guy is a terrible show full of sex, violence, blood, and bad jokes about Jesus and about other problems in this world. You can't possibly use that show against me or God. They make fun of God Himself (and they really stink at it). Don't even use that show against me here.

I'm also gonna guess that you're taking all of the other people's advice on this forum instead...Oh well. I'll never give in.

Edited by dragonb111
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How is that being unfairly judged I ask? You choose not to believe. God does have to judge when the time comes, which is probably not long from now (but who knows). Family Guy is a terrible show full of sex, violence, blood, and bad jokes about Jesus and about other problems in this world. You can't possibly use that show against me or God. They make fun of God Himself (and they really stink at it). Don't even use that show against me here.

I'm also gonna guess that you're taking all of the other people's advice on this forum instead...Oh well. I'll never give in.

Uhh he's not using the show now is he? He's just saying they put it well on family guy. And where on earth do you connect Family Guy to violence and blood??

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Uhh he's not using the show now is he? He's just saying they put it well on family guy. And where on earth do you connect Family Guy to violence and blood??

Dude. There was one episode were Brian and Stewie shot each other in each other's foot. Peter fights a chicken three times. Peter and Brian fight once. Peter accidently blows his fingers off with a firework. Want more? You should ask my friend Kenny. He knows this show way better than I do. wait a sec-This is beginning to look like another argument...

Edited by dragonb111
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Dude. There was one episode were Brian and Stewie shot each other in each other's foot. Peter fights a chicken three times. Peter and Brian fight once. Peter accidently blows his fingers off with a firework. Want more?

This is where the American somewhat hypocrite way of looking at violence baffles us Europeans... Dude, it's a cartoon! I'd say shooting someone in the foot is mild violence, and the fact that you actually call fighting a chicken violent is just hilarious...

You should ask my friend Kenny.

Is that Kenny from South Park? That is bloody, I must agree :--)

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haha i must say i enjoyed reading this discussion, i however wonder some things about god.

i am born into a christian family when i was younger i went to church all the time etc, met a lot of very nice people there. My church was a nice one speaking of how good loves us all, and not that much about hell, the devil (which most people in that church probebly didn't believe in)

I think that there is some power out there and maybe the bible is men's way of explaining this. But i see some problems with religion. Christianity has changed since it first emerged in the first centuary AD and to me if you see the history of christianity and of many other religions it seems more a populistic kind of thing to do. People get power through religion by convinsing other people about some belief the church was able to gather lost and lost of wealth etc, and sometimes i wonder why? why would god care about earthly riches? wouldn't he want us to be happy and love him instead? instead of fearing what would happen to us if we did not obey us?

Ruling through fear has never been a good method it seems, so why does god do it? seems strange to me but yeah... i might just be ignorant as we human apparently never can grasp god, we can't understand him etc. I also think that religion is something that came because people are afraid of death, they needed some insurance that they would be fine and give life a purpose. And there were some oppertunist that were able to give this to them. Maybe they believed what they told other people, maybe they didn't.

Now take the bible, i have read it completly and yes i think everyone should read it, you can learn a lot in there. I think that christianity helped christians to develop morals and ethics which made us into the society we are today, were most of us agree that everyone is equal and stuff like that. But there are also things in the bible that are outdated according to me. I think that women are equal to men, and when reading the bible this doesn't seem to be the case. And of cource we understand this as the bible was writen long long long time ago, (although yes oldest parts in the new testament were indeed written 40 years after jesus died, making it in my eyes not really reliable) there just seem to be so many loose ends, and things that went wrong during the time of the church that i don't know what is true and what is not.

(should be noted that i wrote this to prevoke a reaction, i still go to church sometimes, and i have a lot of friends with other religions, and those religions also have "flaws" so to speak. I know muslims, jews, buddist and i respect there religions and find that in each of them there are intressting things to learn, and i encourage diversity, however, maybe the world would be a better place without religion (even though according to shrinks you are happier when you are religious) but i also strongly believe that you should not empose your religion on someone else, discuss it oke, force someone to believe something is wrong. so lets see what you guys think about what i wrote)

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It is no-one's place to tell you, or anyone else, what to believe.

It should not be the norm to be born into a faith, and then leave if you must. Everyone should be born outside of faith, and choose religion if it is a path that they feel is right for them. Religion by default is no religion at all.

Besides, if there is a God, he doesn't want a flock of blind followers, he wants people to live their lives honestly, be true to themselves and do some good in the world. Going to Church will not make you a good person, again, by default.

Edited by laneolaneo1
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Guest dragonb111
It is no-one's place to tell you, or anyone else, what to believe.

It should not be the norm to be born into a faith, and then leave if you must. Everyone should be born outside of faith, and choose religion if it is a path that they feel is right for them. Religion by default is no religion at all.

Besides, if there is a God, he doesn't want a flock of blind followers, he wants people to live their lives honestly, be true to themselves and do some good in the world. Going to Church will not make you a good person, again, by default.

But it is someone's place to influence you.

But it is better to have a good start with God than to not not start with Him at all.

Going to church will teach you how to follow Jesus without being a blind follower. Unless that person really doesn't care about going to church, going to church will make you a better person and a better follower of Christ.

This is where the American somewhat hypocrite way of looking at violence baffles us Europeans... Dude, it's a cartoon! I'd say shooting someone in the foot is mild violence, and the fact that you actually call fighting a chicken violent is just hilarious...

Is that Kenny from South Park? That is bloody, I must agree :--)

Dude the chicken and peter stabbed each other and there was blood EVERYWHERE! Even if it is a cartoon, it still makes fun of God and His followers. Get with the idea man. Family Guy is a bad show. So is American Dad. That Chicken fight was not hilarious.

Kenny is my friend. He does watch Family Guy a lot. But he is very cool. And how can Kenny from South Park be my friend if he is only a cartoon?

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Going to Church for 13 years taught me nothing other than complacency, contempt towards 'non-believers' and how to fit any old exegesis to any old teaching.

God may well reveal himself to me in the future, but it will not be through influence from any human being. It is no-one's job to 'influence' your beliefs, except perhaps God (if we're giving him a possibility of existence, which is fair).

Your belief that people should be 'guided', as it were, seems at fault given that many people born in Hindu or Muslim countries will also be 'guided' into the religions closest to their communities. How can a human being rationally be drawn to the 'One True God' if he is simply going to follow the 'one true god who his family and friends happen to believe in'? Whose right is it to influence a set of beliefs?

To the Original Poster I say this: well done for being true to yourself, and using that epistemology that the IB teaches. :D

Edited by laneolaneo1
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Guest dragonb111
Going to Church for 13 years taught me nothing other than complacency, contempt towards 'non-believers' and how to fit any old exegesis to any old teaching.

God may well reveal himself to me in the future, but it will not be through influence from any human being. It is no-one's job to 'influence' your beliefs, except perhaps God (if we're giving him a possibility of existence, which is fair).

Your belief that people should be 'guided', as it were, seems at fault given that many people born in Hindu or Muslim countries will also be 'guided' into the religions closest to their communities. How can a human being rationally be drawn to the 'One True God' if he is simply going to follow the 'one true god who his family and friends happen to believe in'? Whose right is it to influence a set of beliefs?

To the Original Poster I say this: well done for being true to yourself, and using that epistemology that the IB teaches. >.<

You wanted to learn that stuff as far as I'm concerned (at church).

God speaks to everyone through others. That's how God works. and He performs daily miracles.

People will go through many religions. They will seek to fill those empty holes in their hearts with these "gods". That will never happen. No other "god" will fill those gaps. People will eventually be led to The One True God.

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You wanted to learn that stuff as far as I'm concerned (at church).

God speaks to everyone through others. That's how God works. and He performs daily miracles.

People will go through many religions. They will seek to fill those empty holes in their hearts with these "gods". That will never happen. No other "god" will fill those gaps. People will eventually be led to The One True God.

Umm, I think that one billion Hindus with their polytheistic view will contest that statement. And for your information, only extremely few people (less than 0.1% I daresay) actually change their religion during their lifetime. This doesn't obviously include people who only resign from their religion, and choose no other religion. And if God speaks to everyone through others, how can we know whether to trust the Muslims, the Christians or whoever is telling about God at the time. Besides, if Christianity were the _true_ religion, why is the church so scattered into different religions: we have protestants (so many different types of them), Catholics, Greek/Russian Orthodox etc. etc. So, dragonb111, consider this: how do you know you belong to the correct Christian church? Will you go to hell for not being Catholic/Lutheran/Anglican/whichever is the correct religion at the time of rapture? Here's a great sketch for you to watch: (Rowan Atkinson, Mr. Bean)

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Dude you dont have to be worried, you're certainly not crazy or otherwise you're as crazy as half of my school and myself. many people are agnostics or even atheists and you should not be forced to be a part of organised religion. in this free world you have your right to decide on what you believe in. some ppl fin peace and answers in their religion, some see only the chain of unexplained rules and some just lost hope put in God after some dramatic occurances in their lives.

To ismail_911: i've spent lots of time reading about religions and i fully support ppl who are highly religious, somehow i am even yealous about how peaceful they are. but i lost my trust in God and at least a very long time have to pass till my faith comes back.

I am greatful for every day spent on Earth with my family and my close friends, but i don't believe that in the future world, next to god there is somthing wonderful waiting for me.

Does such an approach make me freak. i don't think so. but maybe im too disturbed in my mind and soul to find my religious way

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i am a fundamentalist Christian and I am proud of it. It's true that my belief is based on faith and no hardcore facts, but truthfully, God has made so many impossible things become possible in my life that it has become impossible for me to reject my faith over these years. That is not to say that I reject science and scientific facts as IB chemistry has been my favorite subject. However there as so many fundamental questions that science has failed to answer, and in my opinion, will continue to do so. However, it is against the very nature of Christianity to discriminate anyone who is not Christian or has given up being part of the church and I hope that some day you will return.

QUOTE (dragonb111 @ Jul 19 2008, 05:49 PM) *

I disagree with your logic. I'm a christian, but one thing that I learned from my 3 years of going to a christian school is that you cannot prove that doesn't exist. You can't prove God does exist either. That's why they call it faith. There are no facts or logic. You have your own free will to choose.

Personally, I've always found this view strange. It follows the logic of "guilty until proven contrary" instead of "not guilty until proven contrary." Doesn't this give me the right to argue that you believe in the wrong God? Also, would you not agree that that going to a Christian school might give you a somewhat biased view of the matter?

Deissi, i think dragon is just trying to make the point to people who reject God on the basis of the lack of evidence for his existence that there is also lack of evidence for his non-existence. And may be i am just slow, but I don't see how u relate this point to the idea of "gulty until proven contrary"..... and just to make sure everyone is clear, churches who truly stand firm to the Bible to not discriminate against non-believers. This is fact is based on one of the two most important commandments that Jesus gave to us which states us to love our enemies as we love ourselves. If we are commanded to love our enemies, how can churches who stand firm in the Bible discriminate against people who are just non-believers? Please do not be mixed between the Bible itself and some random churches

(Deissi) Besides, if Christianity were the _true_ religion, why is the church so scattered into different religions: we have protestants (so many different types of them), Catholics, Greek/Russian Orthodox etc. etc. So, dragonb111, consider this: how do you know you belong to the correct Christian church? Will you go to hell for not being Catholic/Lutheran/Anglican/whichever is the correct religion at the time of rapture? Here's a great sketch for you to watch: (Rowan Atkinson, Mr. Bean)

Deissi, it seems that you only have a vague idea of Christianity. First of all, Lutheran, anglican, orthodox, presbyterian, baptist etc. are not different religions. They are just different denominations. In particular, all the accepted denominations of the protestant church believe in one book, the Bible, and agree in all the fundamental beliefs of Christianity such as the inerrancy of the Bible, Sola Scriptura, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the imminent personal return of Jesus Christ. However, as we humans are fallible creatures, we do have different interpretations on minor aspects of the Bible and thats why there are different denominations. As for the separation of protestant church from the catholic church, this happened because many of us indeed perceived that the Catholic church was abusing the Bible and using it as a form of enterprise. Christianity is not people trying to act as if they are better than others, but about people recognizing that they are sinners and having faith in that Jesus Christ died for us to save us.

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Guest dragonb111
(Deissi) Besides, if Christianity were the _true_ religion, why is the church so scattered into different religions: we have protestants (so many different types of them), Catholics, Greek/Russian Orthodox etc. etc. So, dragonb111, consider this: how do you know you belong to the correct Christian church? Will you go to hell for not being Catholic/Lutheran/Anglican/whichever is the correct religion at the time of rapture? Here's a great sketch for you to watch: (Rowan Atkinson, Mr. Bean)

Deissi, it seems that you only have a vague idea of Christianity. First of all, Lutheran, anglican, orthodox, presbyterian, baptist etc. are not different religions. They are just different denominations. In particular, all the accepted denominations of the protestant church believe in one book, the Bible, and agree in all the fundamental beliefs of Christianity such as the inerrancy of the Bible, Sola Scriptura, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the imminent personal return of Jesus Christ. However, as we humans are fallible creatures, we do have different interpretations on minor aspects of the Bible and thats why there are different denominations. As for the separation of protestant church from the catholic church, this happened because many of us indeed perceived that the Catholic church was abusing the Bible and using it as a form of enterprise. Christianity is not people trying to act as if they are better than others, but about people recognizing that they are sinners and having faith in that Jesus Christ died for us to save us.

Don't catholics believe that Mary is holy instead?

I don't know, I'm asking...

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