Non-IB students - how do you feel about them?

[Crazy Gemini]

Right, I don't know what it is with non-IB students, but to me, they seem quite lazy. Don't get me wrong, I know there are those who work really hard and generally do care, but then again there are some (like my good-for-nothing boyfriend) who seems to not give a damn because he can always "retake later". This really annoys me because he has 13 days until his final exam, and I called him 30 minutes ago, and he was still not up. If I had 13 days to go before an exam, I would be freaking out and studying really hard, but he doesn't seem to care.

Ok sure, I can understand that because yesterday was his last day of school before the exams, he decided to go to the pub with his friends. But still, that doesn't justify staying out really late and therefore waking up really late, does it? I worry about him, and I want him to do well, I just don't know how I can make him understand that his studies are important, so I turned to the Chinese parents' method of telling him that he's lazy, he doesn't care, he gets easily distracted and he doesn't understand the importance of these exams. And I do know what I'm talking about since I did A Level exams 2 years ago...I think I'm more stressed out about his exams than he is!!!

Sorry about the rant.

But I guess what I'm asking is, what's your experience? Do non-IB students seem lazy to you too (with exceptions of course, but in general - although this is bad in terms of TOK, but yes, I am asking you to generalise from your own experiences)? Answer freely and please share anecdotes (I love anecdotes) :-)

[Stned]

In our school, some of the non-IB students who are taking the regular matriculation exams, have told me that the classes are boring and it's "easy" to be lazy when everyone else is lazy too. The smart non-IBers that is. They can pretty much just attend the classes necessary so that they don't get kicked off the course and then get A's in the exam. During their years of high school, they only have to put very little effort in to school work and then after 2 years just study for the final exams. So yeah, from what I've heard they are not expected to do that much (and also the books I've seen/read that they use in class & some tasks they're given i.e. "Write a 300 word essay about your hobby in English". Not to mention the crappy power point presentations they do the night before, with five slides and one of them is a picture and one the sources (which btw almost 50% of the time includes Wikipedia).

But are they lazy? They are not. They're just not expected to do very much. I mean, how many 15-17 year old would if given that kind of "freedom" and classmates who are unmotivated put any more effort in to school than they have to? I wouldn't. In conclusion I think that most of them find school relatively easy. The differences between our motivation could also be caused by the character building IB integrates in to its teaching i.e. learner profile, "highly motivated students", whilst non-IB student don't get that but build their character freely(?). Also, your boyfriend probably knows he will still get a good grade even if he slacks off a bit. The "I can always retake later" mentality is highly common amongst students even though he probably hopes that he won't have to retake the exams.

Lycka till.

[thehaikubandit]

No. Many non IB kids are just as if not more driven. However, not doing IB allows for specialisation in areas they are interested in. So for example, I have one friend who is studying several types of science, more than possible with IB. Another is taking several photography classes, art and media. In fact many kids who started out as IB did so because they were unsure of what to do and wanted to be broad with subject choices. While some may not mind so much, by this age a majority have found something they love doing and this motivates them.

[CkyBlue]

Very nice points by the above posters.

IB students do a lot more work than regular stream students, but to generalize the latter is lazier than us would be far from correct. The IB program is not for everyone. There are students who have already chosen the path they want to take and are already pursuing it, and for others there are simply mandatory courses in the IB that they do not wish to take.

I have found that non-IB students can have anywhere above, below or the same motivation as we do. At my school, I think the range of students who have the motivation to do well is far broader in the regular stream than in the IB stream. The IB candidates at my school were more closely knit together (probably because there were less of us) and because of this, we shared similar perspectives, interests or even goals, just because we were in the IB program. The regular stream kids consist of a very large group of student, where of course there can be two students put together and will not know each other at all. In such a large group of students, distinct groups of friends are created, possibly shutting one from another. Compared to our one cohort of IB candidates, these several groups of friends, I believe, will have a range of their own unique interests and motivations. This suggests that their work ethic can be anywhere from above to below ours.

[Award Winning Boss]

I don't really have a view on them in regards to their studies. I mean, who cares?

Some are lazy, some are very hard working. The IB isn't some special program reserved for the best of the best. Thinking like that will just make you sound extremely elitist and I really don't like people who are condescending to others just because they aren't doing an education system that seems to be better than the others.

Some people in the IB are extremely lazy, moreso than A level students (the main alternative where I live) because they just can't be bothered but since they have enough points to stay in the school, they carry on the way they are.

Just leave them to be. If they want to do well, then they'll put the effort in. If not, they won't. Happens with IB students and non IB students.

[Sean Banan Janse]

Almost everyone I know in other programmes are more driven or ambitious than I am, some study more than people in my class. I think it's quite bad to generalize opinions about "IBs" and "non-IBS", as IBs already have a bad reputation in most Swedish schools. Elitist attitudes are not to our advantage in the quest towards social recognition and acceptance.

That said, I have an anecdote for you. I had a plan to do IB with a friend of mine, she wanted to become a doctor, but instead she chose the natural science programme (NV) because she didn't like to study only 6 subjects. She's had the highest grades since middle school and she's always studied very hard, as I said most of my friends outside of IB do.

In my class I would say the average amount of study hours per week, outside of school, lies somewhere between 6 and 7, with a few studying an hour or so every day. My class, and IBs at my school in general have studied at home poorly. Although we do get decent grades, averaging 33. Our teachers remind us weekly how little we study compared to the other students they have, and compliment our performance afterwards.

[Crazy Gemini]

I wasn't attempting to be condescending or elitist, so I apologise if I came across that way. I was simply attempting (probably failing somewhat) to find out other people's opinions etc, because all of my friends who study A Levels have had to their first year, obviously for varying reasons, but the most common one being bad grades. And I also wanted to create a debate, and seeing as I was probably not in the most objective frame of mind when posting its perhaps not surprising that most posts are against me.

I just wanted to hear opinions really... Sorry for any offence :-/

[detached]

"Do non-IB students seem lazy to you too" is kind of a leading question. But no real harm done. No problem.

As for the actual question, I am possibly more of a lazy ass than most non-IB students, at least in my school. My bad work ethic springs not from partying, like it would for them, but from procrastinating on the Internet. There's a wealth of knowledge out there and I'm after it. I read the oddest assortment of articles, about anything from FGM to William Leonard Pickard to Flemish (lol, these are tabs I have open right now). I like to learn by following my own pattern of interest. Of course, this brings up the question of why I'm in IB. I don't mind the narrow focus, really. And I love my friends. If I left IB, it would probably cut off a decent amount of contact with them. So I stay and enjoy what the program brings me. I know that if I were in the regular program, I would be bored by how easy it is, and perhaps furthered repelled by the lack of interest that regular program students display. So I stay away from that kind of environment.

I think many people in the regular program are like me. They just take the slightly easier non-IB path since they know they aren't all that interested by IB. What brings them joy in life is, perhaps, partying and other activities they do, instead of an academically concentrated lifestyle. This doesn't make them lazy in my eyes; they're pursuing those things that make them happy. Good for them. Not everyone places such high esteem in school.

So in the end, this is my conclusion: To each, their own.

(Aside: I just want to express momentary love for IB Survival. We're given the option of linking to Reddit and Digg? Thank youuu!)

[Kudzai Mukaratirwa]

I can totally understand this post.

In my school there are 600 students 37 are IB girls 7 IBboys and the rest are grade 8-12 doing Alevel and IGCSE. The contrats in work ethic is so obviuos that its ridiculous. For example we have 5 one hour lessons a day. IB students have maybe 3-5 free lessons a week depending on their HL subjects. In contrast the Alevel have 2-3 lessons free per day on average and spend it roaming around the school trying to stay out of trouble or in the sixth form centre doing nothing really constructive while we slave away in class.

We chose IB so we can't compalin we took on the challenge and i wouldn't change it for the world! They might be lazier and have more free time and be more layed back and never stress but after experiencing IB you'd really get bored!! IB just make you want to be a go getter usually in the form of procrastination but at least its the stimulating kind of procrastination. We have fun and find humour in the craziest things i don't know about anyone else but i find IB kids much wittier than non-IB ones!

We might suffer with IB but we appriciate everything else more because of that.

HL

Chemistry

Biology

Business Management

SL

Maths

French

English

EE: Biology

Tok presentation: Have we been stripped bare by the curse of plenty?

[Arrowhead]

I get where you're coming from when you wonder if non-IB students are 'lazier' in some way, but it's really not true. When I was in school, the IB students were a fraction of the total student population. But proportionally speaking there were equal number of IB students who were lazy as hell and didn't give a damn about studying as there were non-IB students.

For example, when we had extra credit lectures and revision classes after school, the room wasn't full with IB students, there were rarely more than 3-4 of the IB students, many non-IB students were equally driven and focused on what they wanted.

No. Many non IB kids are just as if not more driven. However, not doing IB allows for specialisation in areas they are interested in. So for example, I have one friend who is studying several types of science, more than possible with IB. Another is taking several photography classes, art and media. In fact many kids who started out as IB did so because they were unsure of what to do and wanted to be broad with subject choices. While some may not mind so much, by this age a majority have found something they love doing and this motivates them.

^ What was said here, agree 100%.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Arrowhead

[miss mel]

At my school IB is advertised as the elite thing to do and mostly this has been true. Its not the difficulty of similar courses either but the sheer amount of course along with the extracurriculars, ToK and EE that makes the IB much harder than our alternate.

Here things are measured in units and you need to take a minimum amount of units to graduate high school. This is about 12 units. The equivalent of our SL english is 2 units and then you can take extension subjects e.g. taking extension 2 english means you have 4 units of english out of 12 in total. (Note: These conversions are estimated as there is no equivalent Chem HL, Physics HL, Bio HL, Art HL they are all a standard level in the normal course.

One day me and my cohort were curious and decided to calculate the amount of units we were taking in equivalent courses with one extra unit for CAS and ToK (and we ignored EE). Taking Math Studies, English HL, Chem HL, Spanish Ab, Physics and History HL i would be taking about 18-20 units.

Knowing that makes it really hard for me to look at non-IB students and feel our workload is equal, because even though they may be working as hard, they are not working as extensively or as laterally. I had to explain to a history extension student how to use J-Stor and then reference it the other day (more than once). So i guess i feel a little envious that they're basically getting the same thing as me for two thirds of the work. But i have a great sense of accomplishment (in a jar under my bed).

Edited June 3, 2012 by miss mel

[Emmi]

I don't feel "special" or "above" the non-IB students at my high school at all. Like several others have said, yes, there are lazy non-IB students who do not care about school and just mess around all day, but some of the IB STUDENTS are some of the laziest people I've ever seen and have little motivation to do well in school. I'm talking about sleeping in class, playing on their phones instead of paying attention during class, not doing homework, skipping class, etc. Plus with all the procrastination that we do, I think we're just as guilty as non-IB students at being lazy.

I had free space in my schedule the past two years, so I took a non-IB class each year. The first year I took an introductory-level foreign language class. Plenty of unmotivated people in there, but that wasn't due entirely to their own selves. It was the teacher making them that way. Since she did not really respect them as a student and a person, she didn't care what they did and each time they did something against the rules, her punishments would border on ridiculous. Since they realized that the teacher didn't care, they decided not to expend their time and efforts. The following year I took an advanced placement class, and the people in there were just as motivated, even perhaps more motivated, than the IB students taking the same subject (it was biology).

Perhaps the non-IB students didn't want to deal with all the extra work that the IB requires (TOK, writing an EE, CAS, IAs, etc). Especially since my school's IB program doesn't offer a huge range of subjects or variety, not being in IB would let them take the classes they wanted. For example at my school if someone wanted to become an engineer they could do IB, but then they'd have to take HL English and history which are cumpulsory and not be allowed to take IB physics (we don't offer it), whereas they could opt to not do IB, skip the HL English and history, and focus on calculus, physics, and other related courses.

Plus at the end of the day when the non-IB students got into the same level of universities as I did without having done the IB, perhaps maybe they're all smarter than us for realizing that just doing IB doesn't guarantee admission into more prestigious universities. Having that elitist attitude towards non-IB students doesn't work for anyone, and it just makes you seem like a pretentious snob.

[acedb]

No I don't think that 'Non-IB' students are lazier than IB students. I'm in a school where everybody does the IB and most of my class is terribly lazy. So are the teachers in my school.

However, my friends in England, most of which do not do the IB but the A-Level seem more driven and enthusiastic than most of the people I know doing the IB. Perhaps it is because they have more free time or because they are only doing the subjects that really interest them or perhaps even because of the schools they are in (which I think is mainly the case), but in my experience, I find 'Non-IB' students more enthusiastic about work than my friends doing the IB.

I guess it also depends in which environment you are learning. In the time I lived in London, we were put under huge amounts of pressure and constantly reminded of the amount of competition we would have to face in the future. We were in small classes and the whole system was very disciplined. We had to stand when a teacher came in, to make it short, it was very old fashioned but efficient techniques to keep our attention. Then I was still in a school that did GCSEs, iGCSEs and A Levels.

In my current school in Germany, the people are very chilled and don't seem to bother much about discipline. Our teachers are often late and some of the IB students in my class bunk of class and party during the week. However so do other 'Non-IB' German students.

So I don't think there is a huge difference between IB students and 'Non-IB' students. It mainly depends on character and one's working environment.

[Samster]

Well in my year level there's about 150-200 girls and only 35 of us actually do the IB.

In my honest opinion, I reckon that the non-IB students will never fully understand the IB and it's annoying when they put the IB students down.

Many Non-IB students in my year think that IB is the same as NCEA (what we do in NZ) but that it's a lot more work. Or they think that IB is for insane geniuses. And for these reasons, they look down upon IB students because they think that we are insane geniuses who don't have a social life. We all had to do NCEA last year so everyone understands what NCEA is like.

Everyone in IB is extremely hardworking but I'm unsure about the Non-IB students because I don't have many in my class (apart from languages).

[Where Love Died Laughing]

I know quite a few lazy IB students, too... tbh, I did all my presentations and essays the night before, so I probably count as one. The only difference is that IB students must force themselves to work no matter how lazy they are because the "I'll study they can't simply say , "I'll study for exams a month before," but instead there are lots of other grade components. It's just that the IB is usually taken by students who are very ambitious and thus, they are understandably more driven and work harder than non-IBers since the IB has a reputation for being very demanding. What bugs me more than laziness is being completely content with being ignorant and just not wanting to learn anything new. As I've mentioned, IB students are usually more hard working and generally are used to doing research and such so there are more non-IBers who are like this, but I know quite a few IBers who just don't care as well. They think reading books is for losers, they don't really have any hobbies or interests, and they just don't really want to learn anything new. And I don't mean school-knowledge, I mean people who just won't ever see an interesting movie, look it up online, perhaps read the book it was based on, learn something new, etc... So yeah, I don't really tell IB and non-IB students apart much, nor do I care for laziness as much as I do for ignorance.

[Zhenya]

In my school IB and non-IB students are equally (extremely) lazy I'd say. =P The only class I had with non-IB students was Latin; out of us 4 IB students I was the only one who really cared about it, out of the 10 non-IB students about 3 cared about it. So same percentage really.

I wouldn't even say that the people who took the IB in my school were more 'driven and hard-working' or any of that other stuff everyone else always says. It's just that my school has 3 branches-- English, French, and 'Natural Sciences', and the ones who attend the English branch are encouraged/prepared for the IB in addition to the normal Austrian certificate. So the non-IB people were just more interested in French and Science I guess (or other specializations offered by other schools)...

Actually, if I think about it objectively, we were probably way lazier than the non-IB people. We had a larger workload I suppose, and definitely longer days (school till 16.00+ four days a week for us, one/two days a week for them), but we made up for it by complaining about everything and postponing any test we could. =P

Also, maybe I just have nerdy friends, but all my friends in other schools are very 'driven and hard-working' and know pretty well what they're going to in life, while a lot of my IB friends are still pretty uncertain...

[AkHyldmo]

I guess it depends on how your "regular" school system is... The IB is, as seen from my perspective, extremely difficult compared to the regular norwegian one. I guess that the student can relax more, but that doesn't mean that they are all lazy, because some of them work more than the average IB student. It all comes down to how ambitious they are, but in average I would say that they are more lazy than the IB students at my school.

To actually stay up late or revise for a test voluntarily is not too common for them.

[hailey434]

so annoying at my school! most of them, not all of them, have no respect for themselves, their academics, or anything else :

[stephaniesyko]

Kids in my school have ZERO motivation to do anything. All they do is sit around on campus and play around with their iPhone 5's while you have us IB students freaking out about the smallest thing. I heard a few of them go "OH LOL IB. Not such a big deal... I bet it's really easy anyway, just like highschool."

Let me tell you something about schooling here. It's really easy. When I was taking the regular highschool programme, it was a breeze.

All of us in the IB Programme are giving them dirty looks when they call us "nerds" and people with no life (well thanks to the IB, my social life is slowly deteriorating). Worst of all, they're going to be attending the IB next year.

I really can't wait to scare the living daylights out of them when they take the IB. -_______________-

Sorry, I kinda ranted on about it. x)

[Guest HayashiEsme]

Oh everything just feels so topsy turvy in Singapore now, hmmm, where do I start?

For starters, doing the IB almost gets looked down upon in Singapore if you're a local. The only people who do the IB through the Local System are the students in the gifted education programme here, which is the top 0.25 Percentile. Everyone else who does it is in International Schools (which traditionally are seen as places lazy rich kids get dumped when they flunk school - it's not the case anymore, well. They do exist, two genuinely bad ones are there, but they're cash cows more than anything else). So most people see the IB students like fugitives that couldn't handle the rigour of Singapore's education system - and having gone through both systems, I can say that the IB is far more demanding than the local system, which is extremely predictable once you see enough papers.

One thing I'll say is that the local system almost brings about this zombieness in people, that the IB doesn't. We get flexibility in thinking and creativity, that the local school shuns. I personally get a kick out of being creative, so this is heaven for me.

Crazy to think that we're the "lazy" ones here. Well, I haven't begun my IB yet, but I'm excited nonetheless. (And yes, I'm planning to say that as many times as I can before I start taking back my words.)