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Harvard University


cranberry_isle

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Yeah I will somehow try to raise my scores, but it's hard since I the SAT is the first time I am learning for a test entirely on my own, I don't have any teachers helping me, it is even ''revolutionary'' and new at my British school for anyone to take SATs since everyone here gives up on the hopes of studying in the USA because of the fact that they need to learn for an additional test eventhough they can't fully manage the IB

the SAT really shouldn't be that big of a deal. it's a "reasoning test", and i like to think of it as simply a way to measure your common sense. If you're taking any level of IB math you should be fine in that section, and the critical reading is just your ability to read and comprehend a passage. if you have done any literature analysis in english you should also be perfectly okay.

Theres not much you can do study wise, except to learn the dictionary. I and most of my friends just took a practice test or two to get the hang of the format. (i got a CR 720 M 730 W630 if that helps my credibility)

it isn't like the IB tests in that you need to know difficult material, your friends shouldn't be discouraged from studying in the US due to having to study for the SAT's. you just give up a few hours on a saturday, and get it overwith. if they're dealing with IB they should be completely prepared.

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i've been doing unlimited amounts of college research lately, trying to find out which i'm visiting this fall; looked at lots of admission sites and whatnot. they all say, (as well as admissions officers at colleges i've already visited and information sessions) that you need a PASSION. you playing golf for two years, then throwing it away because you don't care about it and haven't golfed since... is NOT a passion. this martial arts is obviously something that you love. that's what's better to list.

as for the golf/football comment. it really is true. as long as you're passionate about whichever activity, and you show it, that really is all that matters. doesn't matter how good you are, but that you care about it and are dedicated. the only way that it matters is if you're trying to get in on athletic scholarship, which i assume you're not.

from what i've heard, the reason for the interest in extracurriculars is so that the university can have personality, not be a collection of people who never do anything but study at a desk. they want active individuals. active in sports, organizations, service, politics... anything. it doesn't matter what thing it is. just as long as it shows who you are, that you do care about something other than the stuff on your tests.

it's obviously a huge plus if you're a national champion at something, or won big awards in a sport. but it doesn't sound like that's the case with you in golf, or even if it was, you gave it up, which doesn't really support the 'passion' idea.

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reply to above - your scores alone won't get you into any of the top colleges, but that doesn't mean that you can't get in

For most schools (in the USA) your SAT scores won't make or break your application (unless they are extremely high or low for the school - like getting a 1000 would break your Harvard app. and getting a 1600 would get you into an unranked college). My math and reading total is 1410 and it puts me in the middle 50% of students for all schools except Caltech and Harvey Mudd (off by like 10 points), so theoretically I can get into any of those schools, but having a higher score would definitely help my app. Most schools look at the person and not just the test scores, so all you can do is try your best on the SAT, but if you don't get perfect then it won't be the end of your chances at a top college.

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ok...

the acceptance rate is 8 - 9% at harvard yes?

So if your SAT score is within the middle 50% boundary, if have roughly 8- 9 % chance of getting in right?

8 - 9 % is basically a very very high reach ain't it?

So if you get let's say 1500, then your chances dramatically increase by 3 fold i would say, so around 30%. Thats ceteris paribus, keeping all other things constant.

And 30% is a good chance.

My CR + M = 1520, and I think that my score is not good enough for Harvard, and to tell you the truth, my ECs are not lacking.

Example:

My friend got in with 1570 into Princeton, she had 1 leadership position. My other friend who was student class president, and holds many other leadership positions, with a 1420, got rejected...

There's a benchmark SAT score for many of the elite universities and I think it is much more than 1400. The people who get in with under 1400 are the really special kids, such as an URM, or star athlete, or connected to alumnis, etc.

Edited by deissi
It's ceteris paribus ;) -deissi
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Not saying that it won't help, just that you shouldn't say "my SAT scores are not perfect so therefore I have no chance to get accepted and I should not apply". I mean someone with 1400's has to get in.

This is straight from MIT's website - it's a bit messy, but it shows the SAT scores and the percent of students admitted with those scores (form http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/...cs/index.shtml)

Distribution of SAT Reasoning Test Scores (Critical Reading)

Applicants Admits Admit rate

750-800 2,811 604 21%

700-740 2,406 359 15%

650-690 2,197 300 14%

600-640 1,539 165 11%

550-590 879 52 6%

< 550 988 27 3%

Distribution of SAT Reasoning Test Scores (Math)

Applicants Admits Admit rate

750-800 5,805 996 17%

700-740 2,436 335 14%

650-690 1,460 139 10%

600-640 596 30 5%

550-590 328 7 2%

< 550 195 0 0%

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from those stats, it can be deduced that around 20% of all students apply with less than 1400, probably even less, as many of the MIT applicants have SAT maths scores close to 800.

So in that 20%, I can say that 15% is composed of the "special kids", which leaves only 5% for you. Which is a very low chance don't you think?

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i'm really intertsted in harvard, but i don't get the whole other schools, like theirs a school specializing in government (future MP here :) ) and then design, etc. is this like oxbridge where there are sperate collegages or r they like completly diffren from the uni??? plus i would really like to know how much the courses and tution and laccomindations coast (yes, i know, i'm a person who plans ahead) i ries the website, but couldn't find anything, but ifently gonna apply, i'll be an iternational student :)

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Guest Lily Bean
i'm really intertsted in harvard, but i don't get the whole other schools, like theirs a school specializing in government (future MP here :) ) and then design, etc. is this like oxbridge where there are sperate collegages or r they like completly diffren from the uni??? plus i would really like to know how much the courses and tution and laccomindations coast (yes, i know, i'm a person who plans ahead) i ries the website, but couldn't find anything, but ifently gonna apply, i'll be an iternational student :)

You do realise that asking for specific prices now will make little sense as tuition fees, living costs etc go up every single year, so you should only worry about that about a year before you go off to uni.

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I really think Tyro's right. From what I've gathered, it seems that the schools are looking at your ENTIRE transcript. the classes you took; and the grades you got in them. plus the Essays and EC's are what make you stand out.

Most of the elite schools say that there is a huge amount of applicants whose academic resume shows that they can succeed in the college. There are a lot more people with good SAT's, perfect grades than they can allow. They differentiate between all of these people by the "soft part" of the application, the parts that show who you are. The essays and the EC's.

And like Tyro, my scores are in the middle 50% of all the schools i've looked at... including Harvard. You're right, a better score would help my chances, especially if that were all that admittance was based on. But my grades are practically perfect (the school ones, not the IB ones, though those are really good in comparison with the rest of my school), I started a community service type club, and am captain of a nationally competing (and nearly winning) team at my school. And I think that is the type of stuff that matters.

Granted this could just be me rationalizing, but I'm satisfied with my scores. :D

Edited by cranberry_isle
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maybe because im speaking from an international view, as international students are in a much more competitive admission pool. However you have to realise there are thousands of kids with the same stats as you if not better. They have also started up their own service clubs, and not only one, sometimes 2 or 3. They are captains of many sport teams and their sat scores are above 2300. how can you assume that the people with good sats wont have also a good essay and good ECs?

from what I have read, most of the people who score 2400 are not anti-social tryhards. They have a life and a really good one indeed.

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i read the blog... it didn't mention whether the kid got admitted or not. he probably did.

we all think of ourselves as special, and we are. we are all unique people and I'm sure Mr Mcgann is smart enough not to discriminate against 1600ers.

Tyro - tell me if you get in... and I'll tell you as well.

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we all think of ourselves as special, and we are. we are all unique people and I'm sure Mr Mcgann is smart enough not to discriminate against 1600ers.

Yet you treat people as if they were nothing more than a number showing the probability of getting in?

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there are just so many people out there that are close to perfect.

im just saying that there is nothing unique about being unique. everyone is unique and the admission officers are not going to be lenient on you just because you are unique.

ok i started all this because i read cran's earlier post:

(i got a CR 720 M 730 W630 if that helps my credibility)

and i casually remarked that:

cranberry... your sat score ain't gana get you into any of the elite colleges... maybe into anything below the top 30...

meaning that cran's sat score aint gana get him or her into the elite colleges, but if she or he does something spectacular outside of school, then obviously there is a chance.

Tyro's post:

I mean someone with 1400's has to get in.

I agree with that. But the amount of people getting in with that score is rather low.

So in that 20%, I can say that 15% is composed of the "special kids", which leaves only 5% for you. Which is a very low chance don't you think?

Deissi's post:

Yet you treat people as if they were nothing more than a number showing the probability of getting in?

Because of the fact that I know nothing about cran except for his or her score, and the various things she or he has elaborated, I cannot treat him or her more than a number showing the probability of getting in in terms of uni admissions. If however he or she sends me his or her entire application, then I can treat him or her more like an admission officer would.

The whole point of cran mentioning his or her sat score was to show that sats are easy and can be done without too much stress. and afterwards I merely pointed out that THAT sat score is nothing to be proud of and he or she cannot say that sats shouldn't be that big of a deal when his or score is not really that spectacular.

Edited by Forester
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I'm a "her" if that makes your writing easier :D

thanks for clarifying your responses Forester. so I'd like to clarify one of mine. I mentioned my score to show I didn't get... like a 910 or something by not studying. I know they're not AMAZING. but they're in the 'okay' range. and even 'good' if you are talking about the less popular schools. They get me into any University in Florida with a 100 percent scholarship. granted the schools here aren't great, which is why i'm not going. but i was just trying to give the people who read this an idea of who they were talking to, so they could decide if my advice is worthy.

and studying is of course a good idea. I was just saying that having to take the SAT's shouldn't keep anyone from applying to an American university, as you already should know most of the information needed from your IB studies.

So... truce? the posts were getting pretty heated. :D

Edited by cranberry_isle
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Although I admit to not being an expert in college admissions, and I don't think anyone here can take that title, I would just be honest. Say that you did golf in the past, but don't do it any more and instead you found that you really enjoy martial arts. The worst thing I could think of you doing would be wasting your summer playing a game that you hate, instead I would put that effort into martial arts. My advise is to be your self in college applications, there is no "magic formula" that will make every college accept you because everyone and every college is different.

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I have one big concern, that I loved martial arts for a long time, but only in the beginning of my junior high school year have I found a good efficient, non-corrupt martial arts school and thus I didn't take any professional training in my freshman/sophomore year. I have however taken golf courses in my freshman/sophomore year. Now the big question is, what should I do to make myself shine brightest for college admission? I only see myself take 1 of these 3 options:

a) Be honest, and reveal to college that I did 1 sport for 2 years, gave up and did another for the last 2 years... which basically shows to them that I'm not committed enough into a single area you could turn that into your advantage in your essay on hour you wanted to try new things, but the passion for martial arts did not loosen its hold on you

b) Write that I took informal martial arts training in my junior/sophomore year (i mean, I DID imitate martial arts movies a bit - not that I would write that down thou)... shows commitment into a single area i presume, but I think that since golf is less frequent than martial arts among applicants, uni admissions officers might prefer the exotic golf-lover over the 1 in a thousand martial artists (Feedback, anyone?)just say you took golf and martial arts during high school.

c) ignore my martial arts, and claim, or perhaps really do golf this summer... which again shows commitment into a single area to be honest, golf sucks, it's boring and a waste of time

ok let's see if i understood you correctly,

you did golf in the 1st 2 years and you are now considering switching to martial arts? can't you do both (golf and martial arts at the same time)?

I don't think you have space to explain everything in your common app, to be honest I haven't even looked at the common app because people say it's a piece of cake and easy to fill out, but i assume you explain things in your essay?

I reckon just do martial arts. Colleges are not going to care too much if you give up a sport. The 'passion' that you want to show can be demonstrated in other activities that can also come from 'the heart' - like service activities...

Edited by Forester
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