Fur Maths Further Math as Self Taught Subject

[Archer]

My school offers Further Mathematics as a Self-Taught subject. I intend to pursue a Math degree in college, for which I need both Math HL and Further Math HL. I''m already taking Math HL. It's hard, but manageable. Do you recommend that I take Further Math as Self-Taught too. Is it at all possible, especially with the work-load the IB already sets?

[flinquinnster]

Maths HL is plenty hard, but obviously manageable I think. I don't know of any university which requires Further Maths, as I don't think that many schools offer it - I think there are quite a few which recommend/highly recommend it, but I think they would understand that most applicants wouldn't have access to that class easily. I guess if you want a head-start on your dream career as a mathematician, it wouldn't hurt to try it. However, make sure you have good support and a teacher handy, preferably.

Would you be taking it as a 6th, or 7th subject? Even if it is only 6 subjects including Further Maths, it is a HL course and thus lots of time - a lot of effort. I certainly don't have exactly the same kind of experience, but if you do take Further it will be a challenge - but if you enjoy it, maybe not so much. I commend you on your courage, as I don't think most IB students are brave enough to even think of anything beyond Maths HL

[Jaymi]

I highly doubt pursuing Further Maths will do you any good.

In my experience, Maths is something that needs to be taught in order to fully understand the concepts, self studying it is more or less setting yourself up for disaster.

Maths HL is perfect by itself if you're thinking of doing Maths at university level.

Just work hard and get a high grade.

EDIT: If you're still skeptical. Look up Universities you may wish to go to and see their entry requirements. If majority of them state they want Further Math? Go for it (though I hardly doubt it)

Its not worth putting yourself under pressure for no reason.

Good Luck with your decision!

Edited November 20, 2012 by Jaymi

[Zarathustra]

1. NO university will EVER require Further Mathematics for ANY course, not even pure Mathematics (UK Universities have A Level Further Mathematics, which is comparable with IB Mathematics HL: this is why they say "Further Mathematics is recommended", they are referring to A Levels).

2. IB Further Mathematics is very tough, and you only started Mathematics HL (I guarantee things will get more serious now). If you really get all 100% or already know Math HL stuff or some Further Math stuff, then go for it. Otherwise, it is a very hard subject to cope with, especially when taking it self taught, without a teacher. Said that, if you are very passionate go for it, otherwise just stick with Math HL and you can still get in any University you wish, from ETH to Cambridge. And even though universities value IB Further Mathematics, they also value commitment in other fields, such as taking part in projects, competitions, lectures, seminars, camps, etc.

[Archer]

1. NO university will EVER require Further Mathematics for ANY course, not even pure Mathematics (UK Universities have A Level Further Mathematics, which is comparable with IB Mathematics HL: this is why they say "Further Mathematics is recommended", they are referring to A Levels).

2. IB Further Mathematics is very tough, and you only started Mathematics HL (I guarantee things will get more serious now). If you really get all 100% or already know Math HL stuff or some Further Math stuff, then go for it. Otherwise, it is a very hard subject to cope with, especially when taking it self taught, without a teacher. Said that, if you are very passionate go for it, otherwise just stick with Math HL and you can still get in any University you wish, from ETH to Cambridge. And even though universities value IB Further Mathematics, they also value commitment in other fields, such as taking part in projects, competitions, lectures, seminars, camps, etc.

My first choice of university is Cambridge. I checked out their Maths course requirements. It says that Math A Level and Further Math AS/A Level knowledge is essential. It also says that A-Levels are comparable with HLs, and AS-Levels with SL. That's what brought on my admittedly slightly crazy idea of taking on Further Math as Self-Taught. But, you are saying that even Cambridge won't require Further Math HL? Then how does it work?

By the way, my other HLs are Physics and Economics.

[Meat]

1. NO university will EVER require Further Mathematics for ANY course, not even pure Mathematics (UK Universities have A Level Further Mathematics, which is comparable with IB Mathematics HL: this is why they say "Further Mathematics is recommended", they are referring to A Levels).

2. IB Further Mathematics is very tough, and you only started Mathematics HL (I guarantee things will get more serious now). If you really get all 100% or already know Math HL stuff or some Further Math stuff, then go for it. Otherwise, it is a very hard subject to cope with, especially when taking it self taught, without a teacher. Said that, if you are very passionate go for it, otherwise just stick with Math HL and you can still get in any University you wish, from ETH to Cambridge. And even though universities value IB Further Mathematics, they also value commitment in other fields, such as taking part in projects, competitions, lectures, seminars, camps, etc.

My first choice of university is Cambridge. I checked out their Maths course requirements. It says that Math A Level and Further Math AS/A Level knowledge is essential. It also says that A-Levels are comparable with HLs, and AS-Levels with SL. That's what brought on my admittedly slightly crazy idea of taking on Further Math as Self-Taught. But, you are saying that even Cambridge won't require Further Math HL? Then how does it work?

By the way, my other HLs are Physics and Economics.

I just looked at Cambridge's entry requirements for its math course and it says: "A Level/IB Higher Level Mathematics and AS Level Further Mathematics" before the table that lists preferred subjects for each college, so I see how you were confused, but nowhere does it say it requires IB Further Math, it only prefers AS Further Maths. I don't think any college would require it because it is not available in many schools and many people don't have the opportunity to even take Further Math, but obviously it might be recommended and very useful for college math.

If you have a burning passion for maths go for it, but consider that it is a very tough subject and some people consider it as the hardest IB course

[Zarathustra]

I think Feras pretty much explained everything.

I would like to warn you that STEP is required for Cambridge, and STEP III contains many things that are not in the core Math HL syllabus. I don't know whether with Math HL they give out offers with a certain grade in STEP I and II or II and III which is pretty much standard for A Level Further Math (and remember Math HL = Further Math A Level).

[David Z]

Sorry for kicking up a dead horse, but I'd really like to know how you're able to do Further maths HL as self-study for first examinations 2014.

I've been talking to my IB coordinator and he knows absolutely nothing about Maths or Further Maths, as he is a humanities teacher.

My math teacher is busy getting a PhD, and I don't want to bother her.

There's not enough interest to create an entire class for it, and he won't let me take Further as a self-study as there's liability issues if I get a 3 or something on exams, but apparently there isn't this problem for languages.

[elaifyanre]

I am also aiming for a mathematics degree in Cambridge and I see FM as an "Essential" on the course requirements page.

Trinity college's subject notes for mathematics says:

The vast majority of applicants for places at Trinity will be taking two Mathematics A-levels. While this certainly provides a good preparation for the Tripos, and is a course we recommend potential candidates to follow, wherever possible, we recognise that in some schools this may not be the case. AS Further Maths is now a necessary requirement. In most years, there are also applicants taking Pre-U examinations in Maths and Further Maths, and the International Baccalaureate with HL Maths and SL Further Maths.

(Other colleges do not state course requirements for IB as clear)

So it seems that further mathematics SL IS a requirement... and my school does not offer it.

I am predicted a 7 for mathematics HL but I don't think my school will allow me to take further mathematics HL as a self study subject (further mathematics HL is offered instead of SL for 2014 exams and onwards).

I am willing to do this course any time... summer school, Saturday school, after school, during lunch, even if this means that I can only sleep for 3hrs/day(Further mathematics requires 240 hours teaching time but I'm already finishing IB1 now)...

[Giveme45]

I'm doing HL maths, and taught my self FM cause I thought the knowledge would be interesting and also useful for the HL maths exams.

Honestly, It's not that hard as people say. If you do really well in HL maths, then nothing can stop you from doing great in FM. It's the same level of difficulty, just more stuff. I'd say go for it.

[elaifyanre]

I'm doing HL maths, and taught my self FM cause I thought the knowledge would be interesting and also useful for the HL maths exams.

Honestly, It's not that hard as people say. If you do really well in HL maths, then nothing can stop you from doing great in FM. It's the same level of difficulty, just more stuff. I'd say go for it.

I asked my counselor today and she said it's ok if I teach myself that course but she's not sure if our school can provide much help.

I'm pretty confident with myself in this course, especially that there are no IAs in this course.

Anyway I'm taking the STEP test next year and FM helps me prepare for that...

[-._._.-]

I'm pretty confident with myself in this course, especially that there are no IAs in this course.

There are no IAs? So everything is based on exams? Woww.

[elaifyanre]

I'm pretty confident with myself in this course, especially that there are no IAs in this course.

There are no IAs? So everything is based on exams? Woww.

Yes, there are no IAs.

Also, for 2014 exams and onwards, there will only be one IA for math HL course.

[Guest Skyrior]

It would look impressive. The cirriculum is basically an extension, not tougher concepts, like knot theories and all that. If Math HL is doable, FM is as well. However, anything below Oxbridge/Ivy may not even recommend it at all...

[maroctam]

I am also aiming for a mathematics degree in Cambridge and I see FM as an "Essential" on the course requirements page.

Trinity college's subject notes for mathematics says:

The vast majority of applicants for places at Trinity will be taking two Mathematics A-levels. While this certainly provides a good preparation for the Tripos, and is a course we recommend potential candidates to follow, wherever possible, we recognise that in some schools this may not be the case. AS Further Maths is now a necessary requirement. In most years, there are also applicants taking Pre-U examinations in Maths and Further Maths, and the International Baccalaureate with HL Maths and SL Further Maths.

(Other colleges do not state course requirements for IB as clear)

So it seems that further mathematics SL IS a requirement... and my school does not offer it.

I am predicted a 7 for mathematics HL but I don't think my school will allow me to take further mathematics HL as a self study subject (further mathematics HL is offered instead of SL for 2014 exams and onwards).

I am willing to do this course any time... summer school, Saturday school, after school, during lunch, even if this means that I can only sleep for 3hrs/day(Further mathematics requires 240 hours teaching time but I'm already finishing IB1 now)...

Further Math SL isn't a class anymore: there's only Further Math HL.

[Sandwich]

I am also aiming for a mathematics degree in Cambridge and I see FM as an "Essential" on the course requirements page.

Trinity college's subject notes for mathematics says:

The vast majority of applicants for places at Trinity will be taking two Mathematics A-levels. While this certainly provides a good preparation for the Tripos, and is a course we recommend potential candidates to follow, wherever possible, we recognise that in some schools this may not be the case. AS Further Maths is now a necessary requirement. In most years, there are also applicants taking Pre-U examinations in Maths and Further Maths, and the International Baccalaureate with HL Maths and SL Further Maths.

I personally read "in most years there are also applicants taking _____" as... in most years there are also people taking ____. I really don't think it's a requirement and if Further Maths is not offered then Further Maths is not offered. They're just giving you the demographics of people who are already there and studying.

A bit like for medicine "most people" do Biology, Chemistry, Maths and Physics at A Level. But if you do Biology, Chemistry, French and History, it's not going to stop you getting in because the only actual REQUIRED bit is the Biology and Chemistry. If that makes sense.

Obviously it's good to try and meet their demographics but I don't think it's strictly necessary. Hardly any schools around the world offer IB Further Maths! So definitely take it if you can, or self-study it if you can because it can only look good - but if it's going to kill you academically to try and teach yourself something in your spare time, don't do it. I expect they'll ask you stretching Maths questions to look at your ability in any interview, anyway. At the end of the day you need the pre-requisites but they want the people who've got the raw ability regardless of whether they were able to do extra or not, not just the people who've jumped through extra hoops.