15-year-old has SECOND child! - What to do?

[Arrowhead]

Wow, some strong opinions out here....

Though I do consider this girl stupid (didn't read the article, I'm swimming in Psych notes right now). It makes me wonder... How come I had virtually no sex ed (save for what I learnt myself, my primary had sex ed taught by a religious education teacher who ordered us to procreate and in middle school they tried to ignore the fact that we might actually be horny teenagers) yet know all I need about contraception, STDs and stuff, I'm 19 and I don't have a baby in tow, yet others are so damn stupid as to have unprotected sex in the times when TV makes loads of programmes about how and why to protect yourself? That's beyond my understanding...

A stupid person is stupid. That's why.

I think I'm too stupid to understand such a level of stupidity...

Same here. And seriously I can't understand why that ditsy girl would do it TWICE!! It's seriously beyond my understanding...

Actually, some mad percentage of teenage mothers comes to have a second child within some minimal amount of time (as you can see, I'm not good with numbers)

>

I did say I was an insensitive person

Why do you say that with so much pride?

I'd rather be logical and insensitive rather than that stupid. I can never be in her position. Yes I do take pride in that

Accidents happen, you know... And you never know what position you might find yourself in later in life.

What she just slipped and fell on his ****? Accidentally? And then stayed on his lap until he ejaculated in her?

[Award Winning Boss]

I did say I was an insensitive person

Why do you say that with so much pride?

I'd rather be logical and insensitive rather than that stupid. I can never be in her position. Yes I do take pride in that

You really think that being logical requires complete insensitivity? It isn't particularly 'logical' to withdraw support for people like that anyway. All it does is sound nice. Much like the same thing loads of politicians say. They just pick on the minority that can be viewed as scroungers and use it as an excuse to scream 'we'll cut benefits in order to reward the hard working people!' (more tasteless rhetoric).

To be honest, if support was withdrawn then you'd put more people in a worse position. She'd probably be more likely to make the same mistakes if she was just left alone.

You may think you'll never be in such a position but not all of these things happen on purpose. People get into bad circumstances that they can't get themselves out of because of bad luck or things like that.

[Gaby]

Wow, some strong opinions out here....

Though I do consider this girl stupid (didn't read the article, I'm swimming in Psych notes right now). It makes me wonder... How come I had virtually no sex ed (save for what I learnt myself, my primary had sex ed taught by a religious education teacher who ordered us to procreate and in middle school they tried to ignore the fact that we might actually be horny teenagers) yet know all I need about contraception, STDs and stuff, I'm 19 and I don't have a baby in tow, yet others are so damn stupid as to have unprotected sex in the times when TV makes loads of programmes about how and why to protect yourself? That's beyond my understanding...

A stupid person is stupid. That's why.

I think I'm too stupid to understand such a level of stupidity...

Same here. And seriously I can't understand why that ditsy girl would do it TWICE!! It's seriously beyond my understanding...

Actually, some mad percentage of teenage mothers comes to have a second child within some minimal amount of time (as you can see, I'm not good with numbers)

>>

I did say I was an insensitive person

Why do you say that with so much pride?

I'd rather be logical and insensitive rather than that stupid. I can never be in her position. Yes I do take pride in that

Accidents happen, you know... And you never know what position you might find yourself in later in life.

What she just slipped and fell on his ****? Accidentally? And then stayed on his lap until he ejaculated in her?

Not exactly what I meant... More like "no contraception gives you 100% guarantee"

[cricketcrazynerd]

I did say I was an insensitive person

Why do you say that with so much pride?

I'd rather be logical and insensitive rather than that stupid. I can never be in her position. Yes I do take pride in that

You really think that being logical requires complete insensitivity? It isn't particularly 'logical' to withdraw support for people like that anyway. All it does is sound nice. Much like the same thing loads of politicians say. They just pick on the minority that can be viewed as scroungers and use it as an excuse to scream 'we'll cut benefits in order to reward the hard working people!' (more tasteless rhetoric).

To be honest, if support was withdrawn then you'd put more people in a worse position. She'd probably be more likely to make the same mistakes if she was just left alone.

You may think you'll never be in such a position but not all of these things happen on purpose. People get into bad circumstances that they can't get themselves out of because of bad luck or things like that.

Perhaps that's just the kind of environment I've been brought up with...once can be a mistake NOT twice...you don't put yourself into bad circumstances purposely again.

What she just slipped and fell on his ****? Accidentally? And then stayed on his lap until he ejaculated in her?

Exactly...omg you are such an awesome person!!! Always saying the right things

[Award Winning Boss]

I did say I was an insensitive person

Why do you say that with so much pride?

I'd rather be logical and insensitive rather than that stupid. I can never be in her position. Yes I do take pride in that

You really think that being logical requires complete insensitivity? It isn't particularly 'logical' to withdraw support for people like that anyway. All it does is sound nice. Much like the same thing loads of politicians say. They just pick on the minority that can be viewed as scroungers and use it as an excuse to scream 'we'll cut benefits in order to reward the hard working people!' (more tasteless rhetoric).

To be honest, if support was withdrawn then you'd put more people in a worse position. She'd probably be more likely to make the same mistakes if she was just left alone.

You may think you'll never be in such a position but not all of these things happen on purpose. People get into bad circumstances that they can't get themselves out of because of bad luck or things like that.

Perhaps that's just the kind of environment I've been brought up with...once can be a mistake NOT twice...you don't put yourself into bad circumstances purposely again.

We've all heard that before. So many people think they've been brought up in the strictest environments ever and blow their horn with pride but to be fair, it's quite irrelevant. The fact that people will never be 100% rational (and even then we may come to different conclusions) shows that you can't expect people to follow these rules all the time. Keep in mind you're focusing on what she should have done instead of what's happened and how she can solve it. The former is now irrelevant.

Also there are things you can't control... like I said in my previous post. If you were burgled twice, I doubt you'd want to take all the blame yourself.

Take pride in your insensitivity and rationality or whatever. Good luck never making mistakes.

[cricketcrazynerd]

I did say I was an insensitive person

Why do you say that with so much pride?

I'd rather be logical and insensitive rather than that stupid. I can never be in her position. Yes I do take pride in that

You really think that being logical requires complete insensitivity? It isn't particularly 'logical' to withdraw support for people like that anyway. All it does is sound nice. Much like the same thing loads of politicians say. They just pick on the minority that can be viewed as scroungers and use it as an excuse to scream 'we'll cut benefits in order to reward the hard working people!' (more tasteless rhetoric).

To be honest, if support was withdrawn then you'd put more people in a worse position. She'd probably be more likely to make the same mistakes if she was just left alone.

You may think you'll never be in such a position but not all of these things happen on purpose. People get into bad circumstances that they can't get themselves out of because of bad luck or things like that.

Perhaps that's just the kind of environment I've been brought up with...once can be a mistake NOT twice...you don't put yourself into bad circumstances purposely again.

We've all heard that before. So many people think they've been brought up in the strictest environments ever and blow their horn with pride but to be fair, it's quite irrelevant. The fact that people will never be 100% rational (and even then we may come to different conclusions) shows that you can't expect people to follow these rules all the time. Keep in mind you're focusing on what she should have done instead of what's happened and how she can solve it. The former is now irrelevant.

Also there are things you can't control... like I said in my previous post. If you were burgled twice, I doubt you'd want to take all the blame yourself.

Take pride in your insensitivity and rationality or whatever. Good luck never making mistakes.

Thanks for the wishes I make mistakes all the times but I can never forget my set boundaries...you wont get that, it's a really Indian thing

[Arrowhead]

We've all heard that before. So many people think they've been brought up in the strictest environments ever and blow their horn with pride but to be fair, it's quite irrelevant. The fact that people will never be 100% rational (and even then we may come to different conclusions) shows that you can't expect people to follow these rules all the time. Keep in mind you're focusing on what she should have done instead of what's happened and how she can solve it. The former is now irrelevant.

Also there are things you can't control... like I said in my previous post. If you were burgled twice, I doubt you'd want to take all the blame yourself.

Take pride in your insensitivity and rationality or whatever. Good luck never making mistakes.

I don't think she's claiming she'll never make mistakes. She'll definitely make mistakes.

But there are mistakes and mistakes.

Screwing up your Maths exam - that's a mistake.

Having a second child at 15, that's a mistake.

Don't let AWB get you down, I've been called "clinically detached" by my academic advisor, I took it as a compliment.

[cricketcrazynerd]

We've all heard that before. So many people think they've been brought up in the strictest environments ever and blow their horn with pride but to be fair, it's quite irrelevant. The fact that people will never be 100% rational (and even then we may come to different conclusions) shows that you can't expect people to follow these rules all the time. Keep in mind you're focusing on what she should have done instead of what's happened and how she can solve it. The former is now irrelevant.

Also there are things you can't control... like I said in my previous post. If you were burgled twice, I doubt you'd want to take all the blame yourself.

Take pride in your insensitivity and rationality or whatever. Good luck never making mistakes.

I don't think she's claiming she'll never make mistakes. She'll definitely make mistakes.

But there are mistakes and mistakes.

Screwing up your Maths exam - that's a mistake.

Having a second child at 15, that's a mistake.

Don't let AWB get you down, I've been called "clinically detached" by my academic advisor, I took it as a compliment.

I always do the same as well My friends say that too me all the time...it's shocking at first but now everyone's used to me

I don't take any offence to what AWB said

[TykeDragon]

I haven't said make the child suffer. I haven't even said let the mother suffer. I've said don't let the mother benefit. True, it isn't the child's fault. It is, however, the mother's, and she shouldn't be able to profit from it. Arrowhead's right - if she gets a free education and house from it, not just some money to support the child, then that is ridiculously unfair.

[Gaby]

I haven't said make the child suffer. I haven't even said let the mother suffer. I've said don't let the mother benefit. True, it isn't the child's fault. It is, however, the mother's, and she shouldn't be able to profit from it. Arrowhead's right - if she gets a free education and house from it, not just some money to support the child, then that is ridiculously unfair.

You basically suggested starving the child

[Award Winning Boss]

Thanks for the wishes I make mistakes all the times but I can never forget my set boundaries...you wont get that, it's a really Indian thing

Your background is irrelevant. And you don't know mine, so what is there for me not to get? hmm?

We've all heard that before. So many people think they've been brought up in the strictest environments ever and blow their horn with pride but to be fair, it's quite irrelevant. The fact that people will never be 100% rational (and even then we may come to different conclusions) shows that you can't expect people to follow these rules all the time. Keep in mind you're focusing on what she should have done instead of what's happened and how she can solve it. The former is now irrelevant.

Also there are things you can't control... like I said in my previous post. If you were burgled twice, I doubt you'd want to take all the blame yourself.

Take pride in your insensitivity and rationality or whatever. Good luck never making mistakes.

I don't think she's claiming she'll never make mistakes. She'll definitely make mistakes.

But there are mistakes and mistakes.

Screwing up your Maths exam - that's a mistake.

Having a second child at 15, that's a mistake.

Don't let AWB get you down, I've been called "clinically detached" by my academic advisor, I took it as a compliment.

I know she isn't. I'm saying that her scale of punishment for these mistakes is actually detrimental to more people than beneficial. Her background says nothing to me and there's nothing saying that she won't change in the future and still make mistakes that she could regret.

Gambling away your life savings is a mistake as you'd put it. Yet I wouldn't argue that they shouldn't get financial help in the future.

Leaving them to suffer is useless. She'd be more likely to make the same mistakes again.

[Arrowhead]

Gambling away your life savings is a mistake as you'd put it. Yet I wouldn't argue that they shouldn't get financial help in the future.

Depends. Who's giving you the financial help? If your parents/friends/family support you when you're broke that's their choice and your luck. If the government supports you, well, I take issue with that. The government could give you a loan maybe, much like a student loan. Benefits? Those I don't like.

[cricketcrazynerd]

Thanks for the wishes I make mistakes all the times but I can never forget my set boundaries...you wont get that, it's a really Indian thing

Your background is irrelevant. And you don't know mine, so what is there for me not to get? hmm?

>

We've all heard that before. So many people think they've been brought up in the strictest environments ever and blow their horn with pride but to be fair, it's quite irrelevant. The fact that people will never be 100% rational (and even then we may come to different conclusions) shows that you can't expect people to follow these rules all the time. Keep in mind you're focusing on what she should have done instead of what's happened and how she can solve it. The former is now irrelevant.

Also there are things you can't control... like I said in my previous post. If you were burgled twice, I doubt you'd want to take all the blame yourself.

Take pride in your insensitivity and rationality or whatever. Good luck never making mistakes.

I don't think she's claiming she'll never make mistakes. She'll definitely make mistakes.

But there are mistakes and mistakes.

Screwing up your Maths exam - that's a mistake.

Having a second child at 15, that's a mistake.

Don't let AWB get you down, I've been called "clinically detached" by my academic advisor, I took it as a compliment.

I know she isn't. I'm saying that her scale of punishment for these mistakes is actually detrimental to more people than beneficial. Her background says nothing to me and there's nothing saying that she won't change in the future and still make mistakes that she could regret.

Gambling away your life savings is a mistake as you'd put it. Yet I wouldn't argue that they shouldn't get financial help in the future.

Leaving them to suffer is useless. She'd be more likely to make the same mistakes again.

Of course I make mistakes that i regret all the time, I've even made some mistakes when I was young that I still and probably will regret for all my life but I wont make that type of mistake. Legit I will definitely not have a child at 15. You hardly know how i've been brought up and it should stay that way. But if a person is repeated a thing 5-6 times, it should be weighted. I don't have the guts to do something or even think of doing anything like that. My parents will legit KILL me.

Gosh and the thing that makes me really mad is that even though she is wrong people just say that

the poor thing made a mistake, lets help her and give her a better life

NO! If she was a child, she would have learnt. Children make mistakes and mistakes and learn from then. They don't do them again and then they definitely shouldn't get benefits for doing that.

Everyone has different opinions. You have yours. I'm fine with it.

Don't question other people's personalities or completely rubbish their opinions.

[Wicquor]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not argue here.

The thing is that background is irrelevant ... my parents are strict and conservative too, I'll probably never appeal to a guy enough to **** him, so yes, I'll never end up pregnant when I'm underage obviously, but it has more to do with personality and beliefs that upbringing. I'm rebellious and I don't care about post-marital sex and I'm sure there are dozens of people like me out there who are curious enough to try despite being rigidly forced not to. I'm guessing Alleshia was one of those people.

I personally am pro-abortion and I don't think you should have a child if you can't support it. In a case like this, although I'm not in any way condoning the girl's actions, giving her the money would be the best option because that child deserves to live and shouldn't be punished for his mother's faults. Adoption really would work better and I for the life of me don't understand why she didn't give her children up for adoption. :/

And maybe make sex seem like the grossest thing ever to discourage such accidents from happening?

[psychologystudent501]

I have no sympathy for her! She chose to do this to herself-no one forced her to have sex, it wasn't rape... so why does she suddenly deserve a load of money as she couldn't close her legs?

I certainly don't see what she's done to deserve this special treatment, why exactly is my family paying a good amount of tax to fund her life? Can't she get a job and sort her life out?

EDIT:I don't wish any suffering on her child at all, I just think that she can be helped in other ways, for example she could be given a job to help etc. I don't mean to sound horrible

Edited May 6, 2013 by psychologystudent501

[Wicquor]

But it's not just her; there are other young mothers who ended up that way because of rape and your family could pay taxes to support someone like that, non?

[Luka Petrovic]

You don;t have to make it seems like the grossest thing, but in general western culture idolizes it. it makes it seem like you are a no body if you are a virgin and it is used everywhere and anywhere to sell things. it sells for a reason, but it doesn't mean it should be used...

Edited May 4, 2013 by Luka Petrovic

[Luka Petrovic]

I have no sympathy for her! She chose to do this to herself-no one forced her to have sex, it wasn't rape... so why does she suddenly deserve a load of money as she couldn't close her legs?

I certainly don't see what she's done to deserve this special treatment, why exactly is my family paying a good amount of tax to fund her life? Can't she get a job and sort her life out?

Its not about the mother now, its about making sure the child doesn't suffer for its mother's transgressions and poor choices, if you don;t help the child you are letting the cycle continue because they will come from a broken family and do the same thing.

[Award Winning Boss]

Gambling away your life savings is a mistake as you'd put it. Yet I wouldn't argue that they shouldn't get financial help in the future.

Depends. Who's giving you the financial help? If your parents/friends/family support you when you're broke that's their choice and your luck. If the government supports you, well, I take issue with that. The government could give you a loan maybe, much like a student loan. Benefits? Those I don't like.

How would you decipher who is entitled to them and who isn't? Some people are struck with moments of misfortune that can be interpreted as stupidity. For example, losing savings on the stock market.

What happens if you don't have family to help? Would it be better for them to just be out on the streets? Plus, benefits aren't meant for luxurious living anyway. More people would gain more from working than getting money from the government. Whether that's a problem for making work pay more or something is not important.

It'd be extremely difficult for one to get a loan from a bank. If the government handed out loans, they'd either have to relax their periods or repayment and how strict they are otherwise no real progress will actually be made. It'd be better for them to have benefits and get a job later.

Of course I make mistakes that i regret all the time, I've even made some mistakes when I was young that I still and probably will regret for all my life but I wont make that type of mistake. Legit I will definitely not have a child at 15. You hardly know how i've been brought up and it should stay that way. But if a person is repeated a thing 5-6 times, it should be weighted. I don't have the guts to do something or even think of doing anything like that. My parents will legit KILL me.

Gosh and the thing that makes me really mad is that even though she is wrong people just say that

the poor thing made a mistake, lets help her and give her a better life

NO! If she was a child, she would have learnt. Children make mistakes and mistakes and learn from then. They don't do them again and then they definitely shouldn't get benefits for doing that.

Everyone has different opinions. You have yours. I'm fine with it.

Don't question other people's personalities or completely rubbish their opinions.

I haven't had a child either. Should we get medals?

I haven't 'rubbished' your opinion. Plus, what on earth is wrong with questioning personalities? What does that even mean in this context?

You must be missing my point if you think that I'm doing this out of sympathy for her. It's rather silly to abandon her because she's made a mistake and hasn't learnt from it. She's more likely to if she's given help. You're acting like she's being praised by the government for having children irresponsibly.

On the point of weighting the mistakes. I agree they should be but if what she was doing was classed as extremely detrimental to them, the children would be taken away. Removing funding would accelerate that process... which isn't good for the government either.

Stop mentioning your background. I don't care, it's irrelevant.

I have no sympathy for her! She chose to do this to herself-no one forced her to have sex, it wasn't rape... so why does she suddenly deserve a load of money as she couldn't close her legs?

I certainly don't see what she's done to deserve this special treatment, why exactly is my family paying a good amount of tax to fund her life? Can't she get a job and sort her life out?

Your family is barely paying anything for it. Your family and your family alone isn't getting taxed to fund that family.

Why are you treating these payments like gifts?

[Sandwich]

IMO it's a catch 22 once the damage has been done.

Take away or refuse benefits and you end up with a mother who has no education, no aspirations and no real idea of how to make something of themselves and therefore is unlikely to ever contribute in any meaningful way to society (i.e. will always be a benefits sponge or need some sort of support, versus becoming employed and giving back to the world at large) and a child who grows up in the same cycle of poverty, dis-engagement from education, low aspiration environment and, lacking any constructive education from the mother (who themselves received none), ends up living out the mum's life again.

Give benefits and you improve the situation of the child (who is not at fault for being born), possibly improve the aspirations of the mother and her ability to become a functional member of society - BUT you could basically achieve sod all at the same time. If the mum takes the money from the state, never gets their act together because the state is effectively endorsing and supporting their way of life, then the kid inherits the same messed up philosophy. The only real benefit is that you're not penalising the child in terms of basics: accommodation, food.

There is SHEDLOADS of sex education in British schools, and from a suitably young age. In my opinion becoming pregnant young stems from an ignorance of what it's going to do to your life and a lack of aspirations generally. Also a baby gives you a purpose: somebody to love and be loved by, and when you come from an emotionally unstable background at home, I can understand why that would be desirable (although I don't think any of these girls really realise what it's going to be like...).

Anyway, my solution is to give them all food vouchers and a bag of nappies instead of money. No kid wants to lack their mobile phone, their TV, the internet and so on. If you can give social support in a way which helps mother and child without actually giving anything more than the basics, it would discourage a lot of young mums whilst simultaneously not penalising them to the point of no return. I agree 100% that it's unfair we pay for our education when they get educated for free - but honestly, what else is going to happen? Better they receive an education and get a job so they can pay back into society plus act as a better role model for the child than they get side-lined and become useless spongers for all time.
And in schools, make the whole thing 100% more like a private school education. Kids need to be inspired, supported, encouraged, treated as individuals - yeah this does happen in some state schools, but there's something powerful about the 360 degree care that they try and do at private schools which I honestly thinks makes a big difference in terms of personal value, aspiration and so on. You need an individual experience, not to track through like a sheep in a flock.

For the record, I think the same thing should happen to the useless parents who have given rise to this generation of aspirationless kids. They too should live the food voucher lifestyle. Make their kids see that it's a rubbish way to live and want to grow up to be bigger and better than their mum and dad.