Israel approves 1,200 new settlement homes, amid peace talks.

[Miccol]

Hey Guys,

So not sure if you have heard of this, but I recently read a couple of articles on BBC and Al Jazeera talking about this new expansion of settlements on the West Bank amid peace talks between Israel and Palestine.

What do you guys think about this?

I don't believe I know enough to properly voice an opinion, but I would still be interested to learn what you think and why.

Articles are here if interested:

BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23656904

Al Jazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/2013811125817611436.html

[Luka Petrovic]

Its impossible to solve the palestinian/Israeli issue because there is so much political interest in everything. People forget that these two nations both belong to that region. Oh and speaking of nations, the whole "Palestine doesn't exist" argument is ludicrous. It doesn't matter if you call them Palestinians or Arabs or anything else. The fact of the matter is that Muslim and Christian semites have inhabited the region as long as Jews. In fact, considering that a large amount of Israel's population are immigrants from Europe who are jewish, yet they have more claim to the land according to some than arabs who have lived there for generations.
Until both sides realize neither is moving, nothing will be solved. Palestinians are on the defense, but can be more fanatical which scares Israelis. Israelis on the other hand are talking peace, meanwhile consistently violate the borders established in 1967 after the 6-day war. So as usual, everyone is at fault!

[Miccol]

Just found this interesting to add to the topic....

BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23678238

Al Jazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/201381355044730911.html

Things appear to be moving relatively quickly now.

[Sandwich]

Things have been moving back and forth at the same speed for years and years, it seems.

Israel has existed only since the late 1940s on the back of a huge outpouring of sympathy for the Jewish people after WW2, resulting in the (foreign) division of Palestine. They then had the 6 day war during which they took the West Bank from Palestine in the 1960's. Since then it's been occupied territory with both sides behaving badly towards each other. Despite the fact it's technically a zone under dispute, the Israelis have rather cunningly dropped the military take-over to mollify the international community and instead embarked on a more subtle scheme of forcing people out and then house-building such that to declare the land Palestinian would now be to exile a lot of Israelis and their settlements. To move into the area and claim it for Israel is viewed by some as an act of supporting the nation, which unfortunately is inextricably linked to supporting the religion of Judaism, which just makes people's views even stronger on the matter. To be honest it sickens me that any religion or race can be used by some of its participants as an excuse to steal things from other people.

On that basis I personally think that the Israelis have absolutely no claim to Gaza and the West Bank. It was stolen in a war based on crazy nationalism and some sort of religious "right" to the land which is absolute BS in my opinion. If the Palestinians have since become extremists and dangerously radicalised, then it's easy to understand why: when your land has been taken from you by force, you're not usually going to sit back and chill. If you look at the root cause and the actions of the Israelis then honestly I would say they are 100% responsible for what has happened. If you look at what's gone on since then, who has killed who, who has aggravated who and so on during the long period of conflict, then it's both sides who are at fault. In terms of my (clearly totally un-influential ) opinion as to what the correct solution is, then if you're going to go with what is right and just, the Israelis should sod off.

I am not an expert, but this is my understanding of the situation and therefore my opinion. Peace is never going to come whilst Israelis continue this under-hand settlement of an area which is not theirs to settle in - whilst all the while maintaining that they recognise it is a disputed area, which is lying through your teeth, as far as I can see. The situation now is much more complex and has moved on from the fundamental act of aggression which was taking the land by military force. Which is a shame and a consequence of the actions of Israel to try and inextricably link themselves with the West Bank in a way which can not be reversed without having to go great lengths. Classic evil scheme, to be honest!

If mutual peace happens, then it'll be nothing short of a miracle because the Israelis have now invested so much and are considerably more powerful than Palestine, whilst the Palestinians would have to get over a motherload of national hurt and pride and basically roll over in surrender. I think any group of people would struggle to do that. So I certainly don't envy the negotiators! If any country did to my country what Israel have done to Palestine, I for one would find it hard to forgive and forget.

[Luka Petrovic]

Things have been moving back and forth at the same speed for years and years, it seems.

Israel has existed only since the late 1940s on the back of a huge outpouring of sympathy for the Jewish people after WW2, resulting in the (foreign) division of Palestine. They then had the 6 day war during which they took the West Bank from Palestine in the 1960's. Since then it's been occupied territory with both sides behaving badly towards each other. Despite the fact it's technically a zone under dispute, the Israelis have rather cunningly dropped the military take-over to mollify the international community and instead embarked on a more subtle scheme of forcing people out and then house-building such that to declare the land Palestinian would now be to exile a lot of Israelis and their settlements. To move into the area and claim it for Israel is viewed by some as an act of supporting the nation, which unfortunately is inextricably linked to supporting the religion of Judaism, which just makes people's views even stronger on the matter. To be honest it sickens me that any religion or race can be used by some of its participants as an excuse to steal things from other people.

On that basis I personally think that the Israelis have absolutely no claim to Gaza and the West Bank. It was stolen in a war based on crazy nationalism and some sort of religious "right" to the land which is absolute BS in my opinion. If the Palestinians have since become extremists and dangerously radicalised, then it's easy to understand why: when your land has been taken from you by force, you're not usually going to sit back and chill. If you look at the root cause and the actions of the Israelis then honestly I would say they are 100% responsible for what has happened. If you look at what's gone on since then, who has killed who, who has aggravated who and so on during the long period of conflict, then it's both sides who are at fault. In terms of my (clearly totally un-influential ) opinion as to what the correct solution is, then if you're going to go with what is right and just, the Israelis should sod off.

I am not an expert, but this is my understanding of the situation and therefore my opinion. Peace is never going to come whilst Israelis continue this under-hand settlement of an area which is not theirs to settle in - whilst all the while maintaining that they recognise it is a disputed area, which is lying through your teeth, as far as I can see. The situation now is much more complex and has moved on from the fundamental act of aggression which was taking the land by military force. Which is a shame and a consequence of the actions of Israel to try and inextricably link themselves with the West Bank in a way which can not be reversed without having to go great lengths. Classic evil scheme, to be honest!

If mutual peace happens, then it'll be nothing short of a miracle because the Israelis have now invested so much and are considerably more powerful than Palestine, whilst the Palestinians would have to get over a motherload of national hurt and pride and basically roll over in surrender. I think any group of people would struggle to do that. So I certainly don't envy the negotiators! If any country did to my country what Israel have done to Palestine, I for one would find it hard to forgive and forget.

Agreed on this one. What else are palestinians to do when being pushed back and repressed constantly, that being said sometimes the message isn't "we will take what is ours, unfortunately some extremists are more along the lines of "We will destroy Israel" this by no means helps the coexistence aspect. Israelis won't make concessions because of the "God's People" ideology, basically anything goes because the israelites are the chosen people. Ever seen a Canaanite? Not many made it considering the brutal wars during the formation of the Kingdom of Israel in the Bronze age haha.

It really is sad that this is happening considering no faith belongs there more than another. They are all "Sons of Abraham" so to speak. Each hold great significance in the region. Yes even Islam, people will usually argue that because Islam originates in the Arabian peninsula (Think Madina, Mecca, etc) that they have no place... Well just read the Koran and see how much of the story is back to back with the Tanakh and the Bible.

They should find unity in their faith rather than division, and should get over the fact that no one is willing to move so might as well get comfy.

[Royster Zhang]

It's kind of preposterous to support the Palestinians when they were the ones to start this war in the first place. "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other one also" doesn't work in politics. History is history. Maybe the Palestinians' history reveals a stronger claim to this, and maybe the Jews' history does....Who cares now? It's not history that is experiencing all this, but the present day people. This is just as ludicrous as the China claiming Diaoyu islands controversy.

Palestine was over years ago. Period. The Palestinians need to find a way to just settle down and stop thinking about reclaiming their country back again. It didn't even happen in their generation. "Our fathers had the land so give it back to us" is like saying "His dad murdered a man, therefore the son is a murderer too".

Edited January 3, 2014 by Royster Zhang

[Fiz]

It's kind of preposterous to support the Palestinians when they were the ones to start this war in the first place. "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other one also" doesn't work in politics. History is history. Maybe the Palestinians' history reveals a stronger claim to this, and maybe the Jews' history does....Who cares now? It's not history that is experiencing all this, but the present day people. This is just as ludicrous as the China claiming Diaoyu islands controversy.

Palestine was over years ago. Period. The Palestinians need to find a way to just settle down and stop thinking about reclaiming their country back again. It didn't even happen in their generation. "Our fathers had the land so give it back to us" is like saying "His dad murdered a man, therefore the son is a murderer too".

It is such an awful sight to see an IB student that is influenced by propaganda and bias.

[David14]

It's kind of preposterous to support the Palestinians when they were the ones to start this war in the first place. "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other one also" doesn't work in politics. History is history. Maybe the Palestinians' history reveals a stronger claim to this, and maybe the Jews' history does....Who cares now? It's not history that is experiencing all this, but the present day people. This is just as ludicrous as the China claiming Diaoyu islands controversy.

Palestine was over years ago. Period. The Palestinians need to find a way to just settle down and stop thinking about reclaiming their country back again. It didn't even happen in their generation. "Our fathers had the land so give it back to us" is like saying "His dad murdered a man, therefore the son is a murderer too".

It is such an awful sight to see an IB student that is influenced by propaganda and bias.

It is such an awful sight to see an IB student who is actually IS under the influence of propaganda and bias given your flag and where you come from. Of course you are going to view the conflict one-sidedly and the claim BS to other people about being biased. I understand you have a dog in this fight but - especially as an IB student - you should view things in other ways.

Israel has existed only since the late 1940s on the back of a huge outpouring of sympathy for the Jewish people after WW2, resulting in the (foreign) division of Palestine.

--

Peace is never going to come whilst Israelis continue this under-hand settlement of an area which is not theirs to settle in - whilst all the while maintaining that they recognise it is a disputed area, which is lying through your teeth, as far as I can see.

Israel was created because of the determination of the Jewish people post World War Two and because they fought hard and strategically during the 1948 War of Independence. Exactly how was the creation of the state of Israel caused by International Powers? The only event that was in favor of it was the 1947 UN vote and the subsequent British withdrawal but that was it as it was the blood and sweat of the Jewish people that led to the creation of the state of Israel - I think you should read more about it (being honest) before making a statement like that.

--

As for your second claim; I can't be bothered going into detail but from what I understand is that Israel did WITHDRAW from Gaza is 2004 with the intent of creating peace. However instead of having peace Israel had to deal with 3,000 rockets being directed into Israel which occurred given that Israel withdrew. Had Israel not withdrawn and 'given' it to Palestinians there would be little to no conflict as there is now. And, in my opinion, if Israel would withdraw from the West Bank we would witness a similar situation as seen in Gaza - thousands of rockets being poured into Israel - and so I see little choice but for Israel to continue the occupation until the Palestinians get a hold of an extremism - as I don't think Israelis are willing to repeat their mistake of 2004.

[Fiz]

It's kind of preposterous to support the Palestinians when they were the ones to start this war in the first place. "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other one also" doesn't work in politics. History is history. Maybe the Palestinians' history reveals a stronger claim to this, and maybe the Jews' history does....Who cares now? It's not history that is experiencing all this, but the present day people. This is just as ludicrous as the China claiming Diaoyu islands controversy.

Palestine was over years ago. Period. The Palestinians need to find a way to just settle down and stop thinking about reclaiming their country back again. It didn't even happen in their generation. "Our fathers had the land so give it back to us" is like saying "His dad murdered a man, therefore the son is a murderer too".

It is such an awful sight to see an IB student that is influenced by propaganda and bias.

It is such an awful sight to see an IB student who is actually IS under the influence of propaganda and bias given your flag and where you come from. Of course you are going to view the conflict one-sidedly and the claim BS to other people about being biased. I understand you have a dog in this fight but - especially as an IB student - you should view things in other ways.

You are completely mistaken. As i got into IB, i realized that each party has its own story, and both are true to an extent. I also realized propaganda and bias are on both sides. You have extremists on both sides, and each side is as guilty as the other. One thing i have learned is that this dispute will only end in peace and agreement from both sides.

The whole point of my answer to Royster is because he/she is too extreme in his/her way of thinking. Extremist ideas are often the ones that create disputes. Issues are only solved by finding common grounds and by agreement. You have to take into consideration both sides of the story before coming up with a conclusion.

And please, don't be prejudice just because i belong to an Arabian country.

With that said, I highly suggest that someone lock this thread. We haven't even reached the second page and we are already seeing extremism and hatred, which will cause disputes within the forum.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Fiz

[Royster Zhang]

It's kind of preposterous to support the Palestinians when they were the ones to start this war in the first place. "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other one also" doesn't work in politics. History is history. Maybe the Palestinians' history reveals a stronger claim to this, and maybe the Jews' history does....Who cares now? It's not history that is experiencing all this, but the present day people. This is just as ludicrous as the China claiming Diaoyu islands controversy.

Palestine was over years ago. Period. The Palestinians need to find a way to just settle down and stop thinking about reclaiming their country back again. It didn't even happen in their generation. "Our fathers had the land so give it back to us" is like saying "His dad murdered a man, therefore the son is a murderer too".

It is such an awful sight to see an IB student that is influenced by propaganda and bias.

I am sorry would you please propound your point?

[Fiz]

I was in no way disrespecting you, but your view point sounded very biased.

You might hear from the news about the rockets fired by extremists and militants from the Palestinian side. Which is absolutely true! But do you hear about Israelis ruining Arab and Islamic monuments, the Aqsa mosque for example.

The part where i have really sensed bias was when you stated "Palestine was over years ago. Period. The Palestinians need to find a way to just settle down and stop thinking about reclaiming their country back again."

Palestinians aren't all terrorists trying to "reclaiming their country back", its just that they want a permanent piece of land acquired by peaceful negotiations. The current plan involves relocating thousands of Palestinians from their homes.

My whole point is, in the IB we are taught to accept both sides of the story and gather as much information as possible, aswell as detecting bias and propaganda in news before coming up with a personal conclusion. Never believe the one-sided story and always seek truth. After all, the first victim of dispute and war is truth.