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Is the general debate between reason-induced science and religion an RLS?

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I'm doing my TOK presentation in a month with the KI: ''How can reason be used to justify religious beliefs''?

I was wondering if the general debate, between science and religion (atheists coming to believers and asking

them to prove this or that) an RLS?

Thanks in advance,


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A real life scenario would be an example you can find in the news or elsewhere where people have used reason to justify religious beliefs.

For instance crazy people like this chap:


Logic -

1. It is flooding a lot recently

2. God floods people when he hates them for not following his rules

3. Being gay is not following god's rules

4. Therefore this flooding is because god hates us

And other such Westboro Baptist Church theories.

Of course it's never really using reason per se because the reason is always flawed in some way or another. In this case it's assuming that the cause of A must be B and can't be anything else. Most 'reason' in religion is essentially based on the religion being correct in order for the reason to make logical sense. Logic only functions if the basic proposals from which it follows are themselves true, and in the case of religion it's somewhat self-inventing because these starting facts always themselves rely on pre-supposing religion to be true. Or requiring a god-like role somewhere along the chain and then (surprise surprise) concluding that there must be a god to fill this role.

For instance:

1. The world exists

2. For things to exist they must have been created (invention of a god-like role)

3. There must be a creator to do the creating

4. Therefore god.

The fallacy is point number two, but if you suppose point number two to be true then by pre-supposing the role for a god, you can argue that there must be one. You may gather from this that in my personal experience, I have never come across an instance of reason being used to justify religious beliefs where that reason didn't itself rely on there being religion and all its affiliated characters in order to come to a logical conclusion.

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