yii yann Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Oh alright. But they do help right? Yes they do! And I'm not saying it like a shallow barbie girl... But honestly, I have a friend that really works on his body, has good muscles etc, goes to the gym almost every day. And OK I am attracted to that (biologically, in an 'evolution' type of way, so it's not really being shallow). But I actually am more attracted to his determination and self-discipline. Idk but working on your body is one of the most obvious ways to show that you are a disciplined person that challenges yourself to be better. And that's what I actually admire and what attracts me, not really the physical 6-pack. Hey I was quite curious about this. What's the difference between being attracted to muscles in a biologically, "evolution" type of way and being shallow? 3 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I don't know why I always have crushes on girls who are way out of my league.... I lost my nerve when I saw her today..... Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sonia Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Oh alright. But they do help right? Yes they do! And I'm not saying it like a shallow barbie girl... But honestly, I have a friend that really works on his body, has good muscles etc, goes to the gym almost every day. And OK I am attracted to that (biologically, in an 'evolution' type of way, so it's not really being shallow). But I actually am more attracted to his determination and self-discipline. Idk but working on your body is one of the most obvious ways to show that you are a disciplined person that challenges yourself to be better. And that's what I actually admire and what attracts me, not really the physical 6-pack. Hey I was quite curious about this. What's the difference between being attracted to muscles in a biologically, "evolution" type of way and being shallow? I mean that if you are attracted to a more fit body type, it doesn't necessarily have to do with following the media 'ideals' of beauty and only judging people by their looks. I did my ToK presentation on beauty and mass media etc, so I've read a lot about that stuff. Women tend to find muscle mass attractive partly due to evolution. A stronger man in the past was theoretically better at hunting and fighting, and more likely to live longer and reproduce. So I'm arguing that this sexual selection still exists today even though we might not really need it to that extent. And it's the same principle as guys being attracted to larger butts. Hip to weight ratio of women is an actual determination of beauty (as the golden ratio is). Wider hips suggest that the woman is more fertile and less likely to suffer from cardiovascular disorders, cancer etc. I strongly believe that sexual selection still exists, and so in the same way that I wouldn't necessarily call a guy 'perverted' for liking big butts, I wouldn't call girls that are attracted to muscles 'shallow'. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Oh alright. But they do help right? Yes they do! And I'm not saying it like a shallow barbie girl... But honestly, I have a friend that really works on his body, has good muscles etc, goes to the gym almost every day. And OK I am attracted to that (biologically, in an 'evolution' type of way, so it's not really being shallow). But I actually am more attracted to his determination and self-discipline. Idk but working on your body is one of the most obvious ways to show that you are a disciplined person that challenges yourself to be better. And that's what I actually admire and what attracts me, not really the physical 6-pack. Hey I was quite curious about this. What's the difference between being attracted to muscles in a biologically, "evolution" type of way and being shallow? I mean that if you are attracted to a more fit body type, it doesn't necessarily have to do with following the media 'ideals' of beauty and only judging people by their looks. I did my ToK presentation on beauty and mass media etc, so I've read a lot about that stuff. Women tend to find muscle mass attractive partly due to evolution. A stronger man in the past was theoretically better at hunting and fighting, and more likely to live longer and reproduce. So I'm arguing that this sexual selection still exists today even though we might not really need it to that extent. And it's the same principle as guys being attracted to larger butts. Hip to weight ratio of women is an actual determination of beauty (as the golden ratio is). Wider hips suggest that the woman is more fertile and less likely to suffer from cardiovascular disorders, cancer etc. I strongly believe that sexual selection still exists, and so in the same way that I wouldn't necessarily call a guy 'perverted' for liking big butts, I wouldn't call girls that are attracted to muscles 'shallow'. Well, I would like to tell you that a lot of guys do not like big butts. We prefer girls who are neither skinny nor fat. It's kind of wrong to to stereotype guys like that. No offense, but guys really hate it when girls think that all we want is to sleep with them, because we don't. We also have emotions, and though figure and looks are important, a girl who is really mean or stupid or something like that is unlikely to impress a guy. Again, I mean no offense, Im just puttiong a view point across Edited November 5, 2014 by King112 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I have TOK today. Anyone has any ideas of some conversation starters with her? Any suggestions are welcome. And I will probably only talk to her after class, so yeah, please keep that in mind when you give me some suggestions. 1 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jeeves Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 The trick to making conversation seem natural is to begin with something recent, relevant, and non-yes/no. Since you've got TOK, why not ask her if she's got a favourite way of knowing? If that's too pseudophilosophical maybe just go with something like "do you like TOK?" Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jeeves Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Also, do not do the deodorant thing. Even beyond the previous objection against using other people, that is really, really creepy. As in vaguely stalkerish creepy. Too much deodorant is a turn-off most of the time as well - people should only be able to catch a whiff when they're nearby, and when it's a good deodorant they want to come closer to smell it again. But again, please do not attempt to seduce your lovely lady by drowning her in deodorant 5 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sonia Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Oh alright. But they do help right? Yes they do! And I'm not saying it like a shallow barbie girl... But honestly, I have a friend that really works on his body, has good muscles etc, goes to the gym almost every day. And OK I am attracted to that (biologically, in an 'evolution' type of way, so it's not really being shallow). But I actually am more attracted to his determination and self-discipline. Idk but working on your body is one of the most obvious ways to show that you are a disciplined person that challenges yourself to be better. And that's what I actually admire and what attracts me, not really the physical 6-pack. Hey I was quite curious about this. What's the difference between being attracted to muscles in a biologically, "evolution" type of way and being shallow? I mean that if you are attracted to a more fit body type, it doesn't necessarily have to do with following the media 'ideals' of beauty and only judging people by their looks. I did my ToK presentation on beauty and mass media etc, so I've read a lot about that stuff. Women tend to find muscle mass attractive partly due to evolution. A stronger man in the past was theoretically better at hunting and fighting, and more likely to live longer and reproduce. So I'm arguing that this sexual selection still exists today even though we might not really need it to that extent. And it's the same principle as guys being attracted to larger butts. Hip to weight ratio of women is an actual determination of beauty (as the golden ratio is). Wider hips suggest that the woman is more fertile and less likely to suffer from cardiovascular disorders, cancer etc. I strongly believe that sexual selection still exists, and so in the same way that I wouldn't necessarily call a guy 'perverted' for liking big butts, I wouldn't call girls that are attracted to muscles 'shallow'. Well, I would like to tell you that a lot of guys do not like big butts. We prefer girls who are neither skinny nor fat. It's kind of wrong to to stereotype guys like that. No offense, but guys really hate it when girls think that all we want is to sleep with them, because we don't. We also have emotions, and though figure and looks are important, a girl who is really mean or stupid or something like that is unlikely to impress a guy. Again, I mean no offense, Im just puttiong a view point across Yes I completely understand that! I'm not stereotyping anyone nor attacking the guy population, I'm just trying to say that when it comes to beauty standards, attraction can be explained through several ways. Some girls don't care about muscles much, but for the ones that do, it could have a link to biology and evolution, and the same thing with what guys find sometimes attractive. That's all I'm saying, sorry if it came out wrong Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vioh Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Yes I completely understand that! I'm not stereotyping anyone nor attacking the guy population, I'm just trying to say that when it comes to beauty standards, attraction can be explained through several ways. Some girls don't care about muscles much, but for the ones that do, it could have a link to biology and evolution, and the same thing with what guys find sometimes attractive. That's all I'm saying, sorry if it came out wrong Well, I don’t think biology or evolution can explain anything in this case because human attraction in our modern world is not a biological, but an entirely social concept. I can’t say for absolute certainty whether sexual selection still exists nowadays or not; but I strongly believe that it doesn’t. Yes, it’s impossible to deny the fact that many men are attracted to big boobs and butts (and likewise, many women are attracted to muscles and strong men), but when it comes to starting a family (i.e. having children), people would look mostly on their partners’ personalities rather than appearances. A cousin of mine used to love men with muscles and abs, but now she’s married with a ‘nerdy’ IT guy (because of his personalities). So how can evolution explain the change in her behaviours? Since evolution is a universal theory, we should be able to apply it to everyone. But by saying that people get attracted to big boobs, huge butts, strong muscles because of evolution, it means that this happens to everyone, which clearly is not the case. So this proves that human attraction to each other entirely depends on social factors, and not on biological factors. This also means that I would call someone who only pays attention on appearance ‘shallow’. But of course I don’t mean it in a bad way. After all, teenagers are supposed to be “young, wild, and free†Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) @supersonic, I understand what you meant to say, and I am not trying to negate that. I just wanted to let you know how it sounded.And Vioh, I do not agree with you as i think that there are teens who actually look for something more than features. We actually do, though not all of us. Once again, I am not trying to diss you, Im just stating my understanding. Though I cannot deny the fact that a girl's figure and features are very important in making a guy want to flirt with her. Though girls who go out of their way to flaunt their figure (wearing REALLY skimpy clothes to school, or flashing undies etc) are considered ****s by most guys, and a major reason a guy would date them is for sex or to say i got a hot chick.On another noteBut, I still am just losing my nerve to talk. Like we spoke in TOK about a history assignment, that she has due (we have the same teacher). And after that I just couldnt think of what to say, and she went back to listening to music. Seriously, is there any hope for me? (Girls, what do you think?)Please tell me ASAP, because I have a funny feeling I might be onto something Edited November 5, 2014 by King112 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingStar16 Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 If you're still too nervous to tell her, you could show her that you like her in an indirect way. Try smiling at her possibly? Do you message her often or is this just an in person thing? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sonia Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Yes I completely understand that! I'm not stereotyping anyone nor attacking the guy population, I'm just trying to say that when it comes to beauty standards, attraction can be explained through several ways. Some girls don't care about muscles much, but for the ones that do, it could have a link to biology and evolution, and the same thing with what guys find sometimes attractive. That's all I'm saying, sorry if it came out wrong Well, I don’t think biology or evolution can explain anything in this case because human attraction in our modern world is not a biological, but an entirely social concept. I can’t say for absolute certainty whether sexual selection still exists nowadays or not; but I strongly believe that it doesn’t. Yes, it’s impossible to deny the fact that many men are attracted to big boobs and butts (and likewise, many women are attracted to muscles and strong men), but when it comes to starting a family (i.e. having children), people would look mostly on their partners’ personalities rather than appearances. A cousin of mine used to love men with muscles and abs, but now she’s married with a ‘nerdy’ IT guy (because of his personalities). So how can evolution explain the change in her behaviours? Since evolution is a universal theory, we should be able to apply it to everyone. But by saying that people get attracted to big boobs, huge butts, strong muscles because of evolution, it means that this happens to everyone, which clearly is not the case. So this proves that human attraction to each other entirely depends on social factors, and not on biological factors. This also means that I would call someone who only pays attention on appearance ‘shallow’. But of course I don’t mean it in a bad way. After all, teenagers are supposed to be “young, wild, and free†Yes I agree! Media has sooo much influence on our perception of beauty. But when I was doing my ToK presentation, I got the chance to look at other contributing factors. And I mean, I'm not certain about anything, but biological attraction makes sense, and maybe it does play a role. Surely it doesn't apply to everyone, but I find it interesting to explore different factors that influence perception (not only attraction). And of course, personality is super important, I wasn't trying to deny that. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 If you're still too nervous to tell her, you could show her that you like her in an indirect way. Try smiling at her possibly? Do you message her often or is this just an in person thing? This is a person thing. I dont have her number. :-/So any suggestions then? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingStar16 Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Maybe you could try asking her for her number? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 But how do I do that? I dont think I know her well enough to just walk up to her say hey give me your number Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouribjourney Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Hi, I just wanted to give my 2 cents in... If your school is anything like my school, she'll say yes if you ask her, because if not, people will bash her and tell her that she's mean and heartless and blah blah blah. That's what they did last year to a few of the girls who said "No" at my school. It's horrible, but that's what happens oftentimes. Girls I know are really pressured by the fact that they don't want to look like b*tches when getting asked to prom, so they end up saying yes (even if they didn't want to go with that guy). Seriously though, just give it a shot If it doesn't work out, there is nothing wrong with going alone or even in a group! I don't expect to be "promposed" to myself, but I'm happy to go with my friends nonetheless I also suggest waiting a little longer, since you said prom is a few months away. Use this time to get closer I hope I helped a little 2 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 YEs you did. Thanks a lot.A major issue I'm having is I keep freezing when Im with her. Like I walked with her a bit today, but neither of us said anything and I was too scared to start a convo. any ideas? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khimberleigh Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Ask her questions! Ask if she has plans on the weekend, what her favourite subject is, how did she find the homework for (insert subject). Girls are humans too, if you two were silent she was probably a bit shy too. As a girl who got asked to school dances and asked boys to school dances my advice to you is ask her to prom tomorrow! Seriously! Since she doesn't seem to be avoiding you that means she doesn't find you horrible so unless she is already going with someone there is a very high chance she will say yes. I got asked by a boy I never had feelings for but once he asked me I thought, hey he's a nice boy and said yes, and we had fun going as friends. She might not be in love with you but that doesn't mean she'll say no. Ask her for Facebook or any other form of social media rather then phone. As a girl, in my opinion, it's less intimidating to give a guy our facebook then phone number since you can always delete him from facebook if things don't work out but you can't delete your number from his phone. Hopefully things will work out for you though Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) I should probably rephrase. We were like side by side, but not like walking walking together. Like we left class together and headed down to the canteen, and happened to be next to each other. So I'm sorry if i mislead you. And I am so chicken, I doubt I'll be able to ask her right now, and thats kinda worrying because she is one of the better looking girls in my grade. She was dating a dude last year, but I heard they arent together now. So Please advise with this in mind.Once again, apologises if you got the wrong impression.Anyone, any ideas? Edited November 6, 2014 by King112 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King112 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Please let me know what I should do.THanks Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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