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Can grades really determine one's intelligence?

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Interesting Topic! First, I do not think that grades determine our intelligence. 

Known there are roughly 16 personalities, but the school system only works for a few of those systems. That doesn't mean that the rest of us have a poor IQ. Schools only teaches us sooooooo little compare to what we will get to learn throughout our lives. And everyone would be at the top of the field they are good at/ comfortable at. Schools like to teach us the basic techniques like analyzing, expressing, that may help us in our jobs, and they want us to be extremely well-rounded. Yet, only a few students could make it, and they are not the only winners, we all are!

You would notice that we would not use most of the thing we had learnt at school when we are at job, and we could still be successful. Our intelligence would only shown if we are at the right position. And there are way more skills would not be tested at school. For instant, your decisive when making a decision. 

And our personalities also contribute to how well we can do in school. Some people can sit there a whole and absorb all the information taught. But some people can't, not because they are not smart, but due to those information are not interested to them, therefore they have no passion learning it. But when it come to something they see as useful or meaningful, they would try so hard and master it. 

To sum up, school would only determine how well we are doing a current event or apply a skill, but our intelligence is determined by how well we can contribute the usage of our intelligence to the development of our society. 

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11 hours ago, IB`ez said:

"Education is a social experiment" – that's an interesting statement, though it helps if you could clarify it.

And I have to disagree. It's all in the attitude. "Great minds think alike" – such people are all brilliant at their fields because they have passion for them and most importantly, put in the effort. That's pretty much the crux of education too – it's pretty sad that society overvalues talent and undervalues effort.

An IB education encourages open-mindedness, looking at things from various perspectives, emphasis on critical thought, develop time-management skills etc. – imo it's hard to argue such an education isn't beneficial at all.

And studying for tests – well, not everyone has the talent to waltz into their Number Theory test and get out with a perfect score. It's also somewhat frustrating how prevalent the idea is that everything is just out to "mould you and ensure you conform to societal expectations". There's a fine line between bettering yourself as an individual so that you can pursue your passions to being the mindless routine-minded zombie that everyone so irrational fear of becoming. 

I'll concede that it is easy to take education for granted at an early age, usually pre-high school, as a lot of the content taught and tested are not as relevant.

I was not stating that education is not valuable. What I meant by "social experiment" was the values school are now teaching, giving too much power to the government and also controlling the thoughts of our youth. I come from a religious conservative family and it is hard for me to accept the ideas that are presented in school, many of which are extremely "scientific" and liberal.  I strongly support education, however  many things I have to learn and test on are one sided opinions. As for IB, their mission statement for the MYP programme states that they want to create their own type of students. It is one thing to "better yourself as an individual so that you can pursue your passions" but is another thing to go against what your parents taught you to better fit in with a "changing society". If things go on like this, there will be no more diversity to appreciate because everyone will have the same values embedded in them. To conclude, I believe that grades are almost purely memorization of the methods and information that the schools have taught you. It takes talent to memorize, don't get me wrong. But would you give that talent away to the government or to your traditions? That's the question.

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Okay, I can't say much about your background, although it does paint a more clear picture about your stance. The government being too controlling of education? Sounds like the extreme cases you'd find in Hitler Youth or commie programs, though I'm sure it still exists subtly in many parts of the world. That's unavoidable I guess, though the IB being an international education, would likely try to counteract that.

I didn't give a **** about the MYP program and I still don't care much of it now. That said, I think it's a large generalization to say that there won't be any diversity should everyone uphold the same values that the IB tries to teach as we just can't see the future.

It's clear that we had different middle school backgrounds – I didn't learn any content during my MYP years. I had the luck, or lack thereof depending on your perspective, of never having any tests or such kind of assessments that test content back in middle school. What I had, were projects that assessed skills such as critical thinking, evaluation skills, how I managed my time to produce the best quality project possible etc. These skills, and not the content, were what proved to be useful once I entered the DP. Without any solid foundation on half of my subjects, I struggled a lot during my first semester. But applying the skills and attitudes I've gained over my time in the MYP, I developed the necessary attitude to succeed within my academic context. Hence, I believe that its these qualities: hard work, putting in effort, time management skills that education should teach, because these qualities are what's applicable to any kind of context.

And I have to disagree that "it takes talent to memorize". No. It's knowing how best you learn and regular revision is that helps you memorize content. It's understanding of the content that allows you to apply it in various situations. Yes, some people have memories similar to photographic memories and it helps them a lot, but not having the talent or gift should not be an excuse for not even trying. I resent that as an Asian, I don't have the stereotypical innate mathematical skills that I should possess. Or maybe it's just because I haven't tried hard enough in the past? Regardless, I, or as I'd like to think, put in a lot of effort now to improve my math abilities, because I wouldn't like my lack of a gift in the area hinder me from putting in my best effort. 

Nevertheless, I do think that the kind of education I received is far from being prevalent in many parts of the world, so I can see where you're coming from. Would just like to argue that it's not the case everywhere, and there are truly ideal systems in place.

"It takes talent to memorize, don't get me wrong. But would you give that talent away to the government or to your traditions?"

Again, because I disagree that memorization is largely derived from talent, which again I attribute towards society overvaluing talent and undervaluing effort, I can't answer your last question.

So now I'm going to try undermining your arguments on the basis of attacking your character – but if you're still in junior or sophomore year as your exam date indicates, I think it'd be the wiser to reserve such strong opinions on education until you get a much wider picture, as in graduating from university undergraduate, hence maintaining a more open mind on the matter. Also, I really struggle to understand what you mean by giving a "talent" (that would only exist in very few numbers) towards "government or tradition". In any case, I'll take the same advice as well and withhold all judgments/arguments. 

At the end of the day, what do we define "intelligence" as? Only a couple posts in this thread clarified it. If it means the capacity for success, Collegeboard cited a study where scientists found a slightly positive correlation (a value of 0.52 out of 1) between grades and the ability to perform well in college. Meaning that almost half the time, you can do **** at school and still excel at college. When they added standardized tests to the mix, the correlation increased to about 0.59, which though serves as a better indicator combined, also highlights such standardized tests as relatively inferior tools for measuring "intelligence". 

Also, given the way education works in too many parts of this world, I'm inclined to agree with your general sentiment that education is just not working as intended due to traditional/government intervention. I just don't like how you put off the ability to memorize as a talent belonging to a lucky few because that in itself shows how badly such traditions/government meddling with education have altered the perception of society. 

Edit: So many logical fallacies in my argument... *shrug*

Edited by IB`ez

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I think grades can indirectly describe one's intelligence..

Being intelligent means you are well aware of the supposedly flawed school system that favors students with higher grades. You believe that grades should not be parameters of one's intelligence, however, you also know that they are key to achieve success in a society that honors academic merit. 

Knowing that, you should play it smart and manipulate the system by working hard to get decent grades (regardless of your IQ). Therefore, by getting good grades you are intelligent not because there is a causation (between grades and IQ) but because you KNOW that studying hard is your only resort... I mean check out the IB Bio syllabus, you cannot be intelligent enough to know it without going over it, but you should be intelligent to know that you need to study for it :) 

 

Edited by Ziadbar

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Yes, getting good grades, for the majority of the people, indicate a high intelligence - at least in my opinion.

Yes, a lot of the times being graded is not 100% based on how well you have learned, but what the system wants from you. But it's a bit of a stretch to say it's only because of how well you adhere to the system. For what's worth, wouldn't that itself be a version of intelligence, demonstrative of how resourceful you can be? I mean, if you are naturally good at Chemistry, and you fail the IB Chemistry exam, instead of blaming it on the system, wouldn't it be better to consider whether you have, at all, understood what IB marking schemes look for in the 2 years that you were in IB? It is a tad - excuse me if this offends anyone - unintelligent to make the argument against the system, when you could have just learned what the system wants in the first place. 

Intelligence is not just IQ. How resourceful you are and how hard working you are all count toward it. I read a while back - can't find it now so accuse me of hearsay if you must - on an interview done with some education experts on the GRE. Some people are complaining that the GRE vocabulary is absolutely worthless and they cannot possibly understand why that would be relevant to someone pursuing a master's degree in an area that does not require the vocabulary at all. SAT vocabulary can be justified toward formal use, but no one ever uses GRE vocabulary and most - if not all - of it are forgotten after the exam. However, the experts point out that the rationale is that because those words are so little-used, it is a challenge in itself to not be bored and have the perseverance and the ability to memorize them in such a short time. If a person is able to score well on the GRE, it is hugely indicative of their hard work and memorization skills. 

 

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I believe that exams are just a way to quantify the extent to which you can absorb a definite amount of information and serve as indicators of how well you can keep up with your environment. That being said, the environment it tries to test is constrained. Exams don't test your capacity to be innovative or creative. furthermore, they don't test lateral thinking, that's something a quiz does. So, no exams don't serve as parameters for intelligence.

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On 9/30/2015 at 2:23 AM, mac117 said:

Hello everyone :)

So, this part of the forum kind of died out, therefore I decided to make a topic about the thing that has been bothering me for the past few months.

We all go to school, or went at one point in our lives. We were graded on our tests, and those tests gave us an idea on our knowledge about the subject… But can they really tell us whether we are/were intelligent? Nowadays the pressure on recieving good grades is so high every 5th high-school student confessed that (s)he has experienced school-related anxiety.

I know people who get really good results and I know people who barely pass. Both of those groups act in a similar way, and their non-academic skills seem to be around the same level. I know there is a positive corelation between good grades and intelligence, but the argument that they separate the "good students" from the "bad students" seems wrong to me. Einstein failed school when he was younger, and even the teachers told him he would never archieve something in his life. Yet his IQ has been determined to be around 160 and he turned out to be one of the most known scientist in the world.

Grades are important to get into good university, and to test our knowledge, but can they really define us and our level of intelligence? Isn't intelligence something much more complex than just a number on a piece of paper?

I have arguments for both sides and I can't wait to read your responses.

Mac117

The way I look at IQ is the potential that one has to achieve greater skills that require certain skills of certain levels. Grades are just numbers that determine how much you understand a topic but that does not mean that you are of "high IQ". Grades can be achieved if you are willing to work hard and smart. Not just because you have high IQ points. Having a high IQ point does not even mean anywhere close to getting higher grades. 

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On 6/5/2017 at 1:17 PM, agncsw said:

The way I look at IQ is the potential that one has to achieve greater skills that require certain skills of certain levels.

IQ, should not be perceived as one's potential to achieve greater heights in one's field of study. Rather, IQ is a gauge to one's current reasoning abilities.

On 6/5/2017 at 1:17 PM, agncsw said:

Having a high IQ point does not even mean anywhere close to getting higher grades. 

Since IQ is a statistic that represents your reasoning abilities, it will have a direct correlation to the way people process information and the degree in which a person is able to effectively utilize the information after having reasoned it out. Therefore, it is terribly unfair to say that people with higher IQ is nowhere "close to getting higher grades". Although it may true that people of higher IQ will not attain higher grades in school (and vice versa), however, it is certain that there is an indirect relationship between both factors. :P 

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Well, being average-ish in terms of both grades and intelligence I think correlation is there. However simply good memory and working can net pretty high grades. Usually successful students have both intelligence and willingness to use it to something productive. Its hard to generalize really.

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Hi there! I think that it should be the other way around, as intelligence determines students (or everyone's) grades to some extent. I also like to consider the Multiple Intelligences Theory, even though that it is somehow controversial.

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There are maaaany types of intelligence. Grades can determine a couple of these. But others, like emotional intelligence, which is crucial in ones life, can’t be measured with a graded test.

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Intelligence cannot be determined at all in many cases, such as whether a person has an ADHD (if student can't pay attention to the question, then its not the intelligence, that is a problem). I personally get better grades for internal assignments then for exams, because I have more time to think. 

 

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