Does God exist?

[Emilia1320]

3 hours ago, talalrulez said:

and im saying for you to provide me evidence where science contradicts quran.

I already mentioned Adam and Eve, in which you agreed many muslims believe in, which is contradicted by science but you avoided answering that. 

Also, points made on these links are plentiful more. 

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran

https://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/contradictions.htm

Prove all these wrong. Good luck on your efforts. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by Emilia1320
Added content

[Sandwich]

Not that I'm particularly interested in the minutiae of the Qu'ran either, but I do think that any discussion of the existence of God that shys away from addressing fundamental things like the books people use to prove the existence of god - for whatever reason, usually that somebody feels certain things are offensive or untouchable - is basically just ignoring the elephant in the room. You can't have an intellectual debate where certain key areas are out of bounds, and any of the religious texts being left out of a discussion about the existence of a god when they are essentially the only 'proof' one side tends to offer up seems a little mad.

It's like trying to discuss slavery without mentioning racism, or trying to discuss the death penalty without mentioning crime. Not to use negative parallels, just to demonstrate how integral one is to the other! It's not really a discussion if people tiptoe around these things.

That's just my opinion anyway. Of course people can discuss or refrain from discussing whatever they like, but I think there is a strong case for involving these things. 

[Malefic Knight]

In my opinion, god exists on the basis of our belief. We think that there is a mighty force beyond human imagination, mainly due to the fact that sometimes, LUCK comes in at very special times (e.g. war, test, etc). Especially when the outcome is totally opposite (and i mean, TOTALLY)  of what we'd expect, the anticipation is too real for us humans to accept, thus we have to think of a mighty power that is doing something. For instance, in sparta 300, when they won the fight, (in my opinion) everyone simply couldn't handle the fact that 300 people won against an army MASSIVELY larger than them, thus blaming the victory on god. idrk, that's just my opinion :P. have fun~

 

[talalrulez]

On 24 April 2016 at 8:50 PM, Malefic Knight said:

 For instance, in sparta 300, when they won the fight, (in my opinion) everyone simply couldn't handle the fact that 300 people won against an army MASSIVELY larger than them, thus blaming the victory on god.

sorry, hate to spoil your parade, but don't want you leaving here mistaken. while the spartans had 300 against the persian quarter million, other greek cities were involved such as thebes and athens, which had like couple thousand each. of course its still nothing compared to the persian army, but they also didnt win. the greeks lost the battle of thermoplyae. of course everyone thinks it was just sparta, but that was because they were the initial defense to the persian army and the other greek cities came later. it was a heroic defeat to the greek side, that when the persian forces did finally go through the pass of thermoplyae and sack many cities including the great athens, they were a husk of their former strength and the brother of leonidas built a war near corinth, and thanks to the crushing defeat of the persians in the battle of salamis, they were unable to provide enough resources to Xerxes, who eventually returned home to persia.....

Those Total War: Rome skills

Edited April 25, 2016 by Sandwich
Please use proper english rather than chatspeak on the forum

[Emilia1320]

6 hours ago, talalrulez said:

sorry, hate to spoil your parade, but don't want u leaving here mistaken. while the spartans had 300 against the persian quarter million, other greek cities were involved such as thebes and athens, which had like couple thousand each. of course its still nothing compared to the persian army, but they also didnt win. the greeks lost the battle of thermoplyae. of course everyone thinks it was just sparta, but that was because they were the initial defense to the persian army and the other greek cities came later. it was a heroic defeat to the greek side, that when the persian forces did finally go through the pass of thermoplyae and sack many cities including the great athens, they were a husk of their former strength and the brother of leonidas built a war near corinth, and thanks to the crushing defeat of the persians in the battle of salamis, they were unable to provide enough resources to Xerxes, who eventually returned home to persia.....

Those Total War: Rome skills

That propably wasnt the point of his message. The point was that god is human imagination to explain unlikely events. It doesn't matter how things actually are if people tell tales about 300 who beat Persians, and explain it with god.

[talalrulez]

13 hours ago, Emilia1320 said:

That propably wasnt the point of his message. The point was that god is human imagination to explain unlikely events. It doesn't matter how things actually are if people tell tales about 300 who beat Persians, and explain it with god.

i know what his message was. im just saying what happened in the battle so he can at least learn something new. who doesnt like learning new things.

[Hanadai]

God as a 'creator'? No way. But I believe in Buddhist concept of gods.

[Avik]

On September 23, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Solaris said:

GOD : 'Generator Operator Destructor'

There is nearly no evidence to support the existence of GOD. But some people really claim that GOD exists, by telling that they have seen him. Unless there is strong evidence to support the statement, you cannot consider it as 'truth'. But still mass majority of people live with the blind belief that GOD exists. What do you think, does GOD exist? Or humans just do not want to accept the truth due to 'neediness', by thinking if i pray to GOD, then i will get the thing i want.

It is mythical that God exists. That means no one can be sure that God exists since there is not enough evidence. However, the belief of God varies from person to person. According to what I think, it was the thinkers who created the idea of God. To give people a reason behind how this world was mad, the theory of God was made. There might be some strong oppositions to this theory, but after thinking about it scientifically, this is a possible conclusion. Everyone has their own opinion and to me, it's all right if you believe in God. The belief in God gives man the power to do something considering that nothing wrong shall happen to hi because God is present. This is how the world works. Therefor, people have their own theories which they have the right to hold on to.

Overall, this is a topic which cannot and should not be debated upon as being global citizens, we must respect others opinions' and beliefs.

[new_kpk]

GOD never pays any attention to poor or suffering saying that he has given people choice.

But, very quick to claim good deeds when something good happens by chance.

[Amina13]

I do believe in God. I am a Muslim. And that's one of the reasons that I respect and tolerate all the people who do not think as I do. 

But, I do not tolerate intolerance. There is a debate here but unfortunately, people are disparaging each other, insulting their personalities and religions.

I don't see any point of writing the name "Allah" in a small letter. After all, Allah is the name of God whom 1.6 billion Muslim consider to be the Only Creator. You don't need to follow Islam to write Allah with big letters- it's just about your respectfulness to other people and their religion. And coming to the question, why not to translate the word "Allah". It's because the word Allah means (1) Creator and (2) not created. So the Word itself falsifies the idea of "who created God?". 

Also Allah = Has no gender (not male and not female). In English, the word God most of the times refer to Jesus Christ and thereby "He" pronoun used to identify His gender. This is not the case in Islam. 

Best  

[IBTopper]

I guess it's a TOK question guys! Everyone has their own perspective to it and we must respect it. For some people, God is nothing but for some, it means their life! 

Let's come to a conclusion to respect the different perspectives and live in harmony!

[matbla]

This kind of questions asked on a forum devoted to school issues is kind of silly. I mean really, come on, what are you expecting? That I'll wite a philosophical treaty or share my most intimate personal thoughts on THE issue?

[mac117]

On 10/30/2016 at 10:25 PM, matbla said:

This kind of questions asked on a forum devoted to school issues is kind of silly. I mean really, come on, what are you expecting? That I'll wite a philosophical treaty or share my most intimate personal thoughts on THE issue?

Ever heard of debates? 

Nobody asked you to share your "most intimate personal thoughts", but a well-constructed argument to make others think and see your point of view. After all, we are all here to discuss the topic amongst each other, not find the answer  

[Sandwich]

On 10/24/2016 at 2:58 PM, Amina13 said:

I do believe in God. I am a Muslim. And that's one of the reasons that I respect and tolerate all the people who do not think as I do. 

But, I do not tolerate intolerance. There is a debate here but unfortunately, people are disparaging each other, insulting their personalities and religions.

I don't see any point of writing the name "Allah" in a small letter. After all, Allah is the name of God whom 1.6 billion Muslim consider to be the Only Creator. You don't need to follow Islam to write Allah with big letters- it's just about your respectfulness to other people and their religion. And coming to the question, why not to translate the word "Allah". It's because the word Allah means (1) Creator and (2) not created. So the Word itself falsifies the idea of "who created God?". 

Also Allah = Has no gender (not male and not female). In English, the word God most of the times refer to Jesus Christ and thereby "He" pronoun used to identify His gender. This is not the case in Islam. 

Best  

I suppose a point I would make to you is - if you consider religion to be unquestionable and sacrosanct to the point that questioning it is equivalent to a personal insult and indeed even just typing something without capital letters is offensive - in my view you're excluding religion as a special case from the realms of human intellect and questioning and scrutiny. A lot of people would say that in a world of free speech, people should be free to question and defend any belief and thought. If you say that you can question everything except for religion because any questioning of religion is essentially 'intolerance' then I think you've got to take a long hard look at why you think that religion cannot be held to the same level of scrutiny that we hold all other areas of society to. And if you believe it can stand up to the same level of scrutiny, then I would urge you to engage with it, rather than simply labelling it disparaging and intolerance.

[Amina13]

On November 3, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Sandwich said:

I suppose a point I would make to you is - if you consider religion to be unquestionable and sacrosanct to the point that questioning it is equivalent to a personal insult and indeed even just typing something without capital letters is offensive - in my view you're excluding religion as a special case from the realms of human intellect and questioning and scrutiny.

 

Actually, what I said has nothing to do with religion being unquestionable. If you think that respecting and tolerating others religion, typing the name of God (who is the Creator for the believers) with the capital letter is equivalent to saying that religion is unimpeachable, that's your problem. No one asks you to believe in God. But as a human being, we all have to understand that others don't think as we do - and in fact, they should not. But this disunity does not give anyone a right for bigotry. 

On November 3, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Sandwich said:

A lot of people would say that in a world of free speech, people should be free to question and defend any belief and thought. If you say that you can question everything except for religion because any questioning of religion is essentially 'intolerance' then I think you've got to take a long hard look at why you think that religion cannot be held to the same level of scrutiny that we hold all other areas of society to.

 

Coming to the freedom of speech, it is a controversial topic. Purposefully offending someone and calling it 'freedom of speech' is more a freedom of hatred and offense rather than a speech. I am a great believer in freedom of speech. However, I do acknowledge the fact that, people use this as a license to offend others, which is contradictory to others right. 

You're free to write words with small letters, but as I've mentioned before, it's always good to respect other religions, cultures. There is a difference between questioning certain rules in religion and disrespecting people's beliefs. Questioning is not equivalent to disrespect. 

I tried to express what I think. To what extent I was successful is disputable  

[Befuddled]

Ahh There's so much I can say, but at the same time nothing I can say 

Personally, i'm Hindu, and there are many mythological stories I have been told as I grew up. I absolutely am enchanted by them and how they all connect to form the World of the Gods, Humans, and Evil/Demons. I really feel to an extent they may have been true.

However, the fact also exists, I believe in Science and how it is such an effective measure in promoting ideas and 'proving' them (I say it in speech marks because I believe everything is a theory -> no right or wrong) Such as the existence of atoms to the cell membrane structure.

Both of these, for me provide clear logical explanations as well as having uncertainties within them.

Therefore, to keep my fidelity to my religion and desire to believe in SOMETHING, while conforming to laws and theories of science, I believe in a 'force' that keeps things together.

For me, God is just a force that has been given a form and stories and humanly powers.

 

I do not wish to hurt anyone. This is purely my own belief and how I keep together the 2 aforementioned ideas.

[tim9800]

On 11/5/2016 at 7:38 PM, Amina13 said:

You're free to write words with small letters, but as I've mentioned before, it's always good to respect other religions, cultures. There is a difference between questioning certain rules in religion and disrespecting people's beliefs. Questioning is not equivalent to disrespect. 

I agree with your idea of respect - however, I don't think that the idea of writing religious titles without capitals poses a direct correlation to disrespect. Respect, in my eyes, is accepting that the thoughts and premonitions of others may be separate from yours. From this basic definition of respect, non-capitalising can still mean that you disagree with that religion. It is perfectly fine to question the premises from which a religion is founded, however, religion is such that questioning its premises automatically questions God (whoever he is and in whatever religion) and this gives rise to many false claims of ad hominem. In this way, the concept of 'freedom of speech' is quite volatile, because many believe that questioning their God is inherently bigoted or discriminatory. 'I think you're wrong because you believe in XYZ' is different to 'I think you're wrong because the evidence for XYZ contains logical fallacy ABC'.

[azara]

This is interesting.

I type the word "god" with a small letter most of the time, not because I want to disrespect your religion, but because I see god as a human concept, created by the human mind just like art, poetry, and folktales.  None of those warrant a capital letter, so neither does 'god'.

The capitalised "God", in my view, is used by believers to show they believe a god (god with a small letter) is a real, powerful entity (God with a large letter).

Why find offence where there is none?

Speaking of finding offence, what are the 'disparaging comments' you think people have made towards religion? I haven't seen any of that, either.

[Amina13]

2 hours ago, tim9800 said:

Respect, in my eyes, is accepting that the thoughts and premonitions of others may be separate from yours. From this basic definition of respect, non-capitalising can still mean that you disagree with that religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this sentence defines not respect, but tolerance. When you acknowledge the fact that people are diverse and willingly accept their feelings, habits, or beliefs that are different from your own - that is what tolerance is. On this basis, it is okay to write the word God with the small letter, since you do tolerate their religion, but don't really respect. Respect, in my view, is one step further than tolerance. Referring to its definition, respect is 'having due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of'. This implies that regardless of your view on the topic when it comes to the sensitive issues such as religion, culture and etc. then you do need to be polite and respectful to those people and their beliefs. Now, this does not really mean that you need to worship God, that you believe do not exist, or do not question their beliefs at all.

What I am trying to say is that you can still question and disagree while you respect and do not offend them. 

 

1 hour ago, azara said:

I type the word "god" with a small letter most of the time, not because I want to disrespect your religion, but because I see god as a human concept, created by the human mind just like art, poetry, and folktales.  None of those warrant a capital letter, so neither does 'god'.

 

 

 

 

 

The difference between the concept of God and art, poetry and folktales are that no one thinks of art, poetry as a Creator of the universe. When you think of the concept of God from this perspective, then I think it is understandable why writing the word God with the capital letter is important, although you don't think the same. 

Also one more point about the early discussion. I appreciate your respectful way of approaching these - it is very kind of you  

On April 23, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Rosalina said:

However, King, I am curious as to where you got that statement. I believe that the Qur'an describes the Earth to be something that can be translated to "egg-shaped"

 

 

 

 

 

“And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped.”
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]
The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geospherical shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat. (https://www.quora.com/Does-the-Quran-state-that-the-earth-is-flat) I hope this helps to understand the terms thoroughly. 

[azara]

Okay, I see and accept your point that the idea of god does have distinct differences to other human concepts.  Yes, religion (and therefore god/s) are very important to the worshippers, hence why the word is always capitalised by believers.

Nevertheless, to a nonbeliever, "god" remains an immaterial construct and a product of the human mind.  Just as I don't capitalise "religion", I don't capitalise "god".  Just as you capitalise "God" to show his/her/its importance to you, I don't, because that is the best reflection of my beliefs.  Language can be a nuanced thing.  I don't think it's disrespectful unless my intent is to be disrespectful!

The exception (this being English, there are always exceptions!) are when I'm talking about a specific god (e.g. Allah, the Christian/Jewish God, Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, whatever).  I capitalise those because they are specific names, like my name or yours.

This is a good example of the finer points of English and how words can define our beliefs very precisely, so thanks for bringing it up.

Edited November 12, 2016 by azara
ironically, there was a typo