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Solaris

Does God exist?

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for those who dont believe in god's existence because they have no proof....

-Do you have a mind?

-yes...

-ok...can you see it?

-no....thats impossible....its not something touchable

-oh...alrighty....that...your mind doesnt exist...you have no mind

-what are you saying??? how the hell am i talking to you right now then?

-thats the same with god....you cant touch him...you cant see him...you cant hear him...but you just know he's there....because you see the effect....

and like the student who talked about the proofs in the quran....i was afraid to go into that before i saw you doing it....

i agree....i mean...this might be because im a muslim...but the scientific things said in the quran are being proven everyday by technology.....there's noway this was written by a human being is there?

this means,...like we believe that this is from god....this is the most obvious proof for us..

and like aloooot of you said...look at the universe around you...or never mind..look at yourself and the other people around you...

is it possible that the billions of human beings created millions of years ago are just a coincident?? is it possible?? i mean...coincedint are rare...let alone...continious!!!

i do in some way respect your opinions...but this is logic...how can you have the whole universe going in such detailed accuracy??

scientist proved that the universe is expanding..we had this told to us like 1400 years ago...

anyhow...this is to administrators:

this is a very conterversial issue......and its a very hot topic.....and i do respect that members should respect the rules and stuf...

but such topic is sort of inappropriate...especially if you want the members to participate objectivally.....you are touching on there religious beliefs that they're been raised on...so obviously one would offend some one else -involunatrily ofcourse- that totally refuses the religious belief...<3:):S

like personally...i was trying my best to control my-self when i was writing this....hopefully i managed to...

i nicely suggest..just suggest...that this thread should be locked....because as you said..it is getting sort of like spam....this topic is kinda hard to talk about objectively(sp?)....

and honestly..some of the replies...did in some way offend me...although i repeat AGAIN....that i do respect the opinions

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If God existed, wouldn't he be taking an active stance in the prevention of all the cruelty that is happening in this world today?

I mean, if all the statements about there being a God are corrected, he created us so that he can see the pressure that we can go through? How many people does it take to create a genocide? Is that why God created us? To be killed and kill more people?

My belief in God is deprecating by the day. A look in the current affairs at the moment give some clear understanding of that.

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for those who dont believe in god's existence because they have no proof....

-Do you have a mind?

-yes...

-ok...can you see it?

-no....thats impossible....its not something touchable

-oh...alrighty....that...your mind doesnt exist...you have no mind

-what are you saying??? how the hell am i talking to you right now then?

-thats the same with god....you cant touch him...you cant see him...you cant hear him...but you just know he's there....because you see the effect....

and like the student who talked about the proofs in the quran....i was afraid to go into that before i saw you doing it....

i agree....i mean...this might be because im a muslim...but the scientific things said in the quran are being proven everyday by technology.....there's noway this was written by a human being is there?

this means,...like we believe that this is from god....this is the most obvious proof for us..

and like aloooot of you said...look at the universe around you...or never mind..look at yourself and the other people around you...

is it possible that the billions of human beings created millions of years ago are just a coincident?? is it possible?? i mean...coincedint are rare...let alone...continious!!!

i do in some way respect your opinions...but this is logic...how can you have the whole universe going in such detailed accuracy??

scientist proved that the universe is expanding..we had this told to us like 1400 years ago...

anyhow...this is to administrators:

this is a very conterversial issue......and its a very hot topic.....and i do respect that members should respect the rules and stuf...

but such topic is sort of inappropriate...especially if you want the members to participate objectivally.....you are touching on there religious beliefs that they're been raised on...so obviously one would offend some one else -involunatrily ofcourse- that totally refuses the religious belief...;):):S

like personally...i was trying my best to control my-self when i was writing this....hopefully i managed to...

i nicely suggest..just suggest...that this thread should be locked....because as you said..it is getting sort of like spam....this topic is kinda hard to talk about objectively(sp?)....

and honestly..some of the replies...did in some way offend me...although i repeat AGAIN....that i do respect the opinions

So God is a Mind?

and vague prophesies that have myriad of different interpretations is bound to get SOMETHING right.

and don't be offended. If God's who you say he is, he's a big boy. Let him deal with this issue.

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Say Christianity was the first religion (I don't know what is, too lazy to do research on this)

Hinduism is the oldest known religion. However, Hindus did not seek to spread the religion. In fact, they chose to keep it to themselves, as conversion to Hinduism is "not allowed." Many people do it anyway.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adding to the religion discussion, I do not believe that God is watching over your every move. I don't believe that just because you stepped on the cat's tail this morning, you got hit by a car this evening. I do somewhat believe in karma, but not for every action, every move, every word. I don't believe in Hell, because I don't believe in the Seven Deadly Sins, especially Sloth. If it existed, "God" would probably rip me out of life and send me straight to Hell.

What I do believe is that whatever a person believes will happen - for them. No one knows what comes after life, except for maybe a few of you guys. I don't diss magic. But since most people don't actually know, people are entitled to believe what they want.

I believe in many different things, many of my beliefs far-fetched by some people's standards. I believe whatever I like.

For example, my belief in karma ties in with my belief that every time a major decision has to be made, another world appears. So, I believe that there are many, many alternate worlds. This idea came out of the book Interworld, by Neil Gaiman and Michael Reaves. However, I don't believe that people can travel freely to and from these planes.

Quite a few of my beliefs come out of my favorite book, The Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain. I believe that every decision made has a large impact on the path your life takes.

All of this ties into religion, because this is basically what I tie my religion to. I believe not in a supreme being but in a series of beliefs that depend on the person in question only. This ensures that my life is my own path, from beginning to end, and there is nothing that has been chosen for me that I cannot change. I live my life without that guilt and constant questioning that comes with a fixed religion. I am loose and undefined.

Although I don't believe in a Supreme Being, or God, I am very open-minded and can tolerate everything except when people believe that their religion is the only thing that exists in the world and that that is how it should be for everyone. I cannot stand the incredulous question, "You haven't read the Bible?"

But if you think about it, religion is the only real problem in the world. Look at all these wars...most are over religion. The Crusades? Religion. 9/11? Religion. Iraq? Religion. It may not be obvious, but if you dig deep within the layers of cover-up reasons, it's there.

If you do choose to believe that there is a God, please don't shove it down people's throats. They are entitled to their own decisions, as you are. Try to force something upon them, and you'll see the war generalization's proof.

There are many different types of religion; not all are fixed. There are many different types of God; not all take form. There are many different types of people; not all agree.

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myreeka, I like you. :D Belief ties people together; religion breaks them apart. Or something like that.

I think as long as your internal beliefs have no contradictions, there is nothing 'wrong' with your belief system. (Unfortunately, most of us are hypocrites to some degree.) Imo, religion is good in the sense that it can guide your moral judgments, but following it like it has a set of iron-clad rules is just absurd. And the whole 'My religion is right, yours is wrong' or the 'My religion said this and this so I am right and you should be burned/stoned/killed' pisses me off to no end.

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I think as long as your internal beliefs have no contradictions

I'm beginning to believe this is impossible, given the omnipresence of ambiguity.

Edited by Mr. Shiver

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So God is a Mind?

and vague prophesies that have myriad of different interpretations is bound to get SOMETHING right.

and don't be offended. If God's who you say he is, he's a big boy. Let him deal with this issue.

lol..no...im just giving an example! ^_^ ...

if you claim that god doesnt exist because you just cant get touchable/seeable proof....then that applied to your mind as well doesnt it?

and this is for everyone...

ok..so GOD doesnt exist...when you're in trouble..like...serious trouble...why does EVERYONE...go like.."oh god please help"..or.."oh lord"...whether or not they believe in god...am i not right? and just watch people as they're struggling in something...this is...something like....a serious car accident..or anything of that sort...

why do we seem to be calling out for him when it concerns our lives? i mean..just watch your self if you ever fall in such trouble...you will deep inside be pleading god to help you...no?

and just the fact that some people who do NOT believe in god actually plead him when they want their lives saved..says alot about his existence...

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Since you seem to want a response: that scenario doesn't really say anything about divine existence.

Ignoring the majority of the time time when "oh god" and "oh lord" in emotional situations are entirely colloquial in nature (and therefore insignificant), all that "calling out to him" shows is that some people may be more open to the possibility of divine intervention when they feel that they could benefit from it. In other words, people can be hypocritical. No news there.

Edited by Mr. Shiver

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Since you seem to want a response: that scenario doesn't really say anything about divine existence.

Ignoring the majority of the time time when "oh god" and "oh lord" in emotional situations are entirely colloquial in nature (and therefore insignificant), all that "calling out to him" shows is that some people may be more open to the possibility of divine intervention when they feel that they could benefit from it. In other words, people can be hypocritical. No news there.

lol..i dont entirely agree but ok...i respect your opinion...

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Well, I am a Muslim but lived amongst different relgions and what i come to beleive is that knowing that there is a greater good a superior that knows everything and is watching over you and gave you day and night, moon and sun mother father brother/sisters life and all is God we can not define god but we can beleive that he is watching over for us. and someone said that why is bad things happening if he is there or something like that, well as most muslims beleive he is testing us, "life on earth" is a test to see who will give into the Sins and who will stay ontrack since the devil challenged god to corrupt as many people as he can (when he didnt obey god and bow to adam) so whether you beleive in god or not we SHOULD respect different opinions, and i actually am grateful that i was raised up around different cultures so that i can proudly say im a Muslim who beleive in a force that created all of what is around us

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You say that there is no proof that God exist, but there is also little proof that he does not. although i attend a christian school, i consider myself an aethiest, and therefore i'm alittle bit of both sides. I believe that there is a 'God', a creator of what we have on earth, the universe...etc. But i do not believ in a God who monitors our world as a 14 yr old boy may play world of warcraft. I also believe in a heaven- a place after death. I think the question is not whether 'God' as an authorative power exist, but rather the faith in God that christians offer, and how they live by that faith. this means upholding the religion of the faith- regardless of which; and working to do good in the world. Perhaps God is just a creation of our minds, something/someone that we are able to blame when things go wrong, someone to confession to when we do bad things. It doesn't matter what God is or whether he really is a great big man peeping at us through clouds. As long as humans believe in him, and seek to bring good into the world in 'his' name, then God does exist. (think of the law of gravity)

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You say that there is no proof that God exist, but there is also little proof that he does not.

The burden of proof does, however, rest on the believers in God to make their case for his existence, not the other way around.

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you know..this thread is for everyone to give their opinions...not to attack each other:S

so im just going to give my opinion clearly and directly...

I certainly believe that the whole universe with its extreme accuracy...all the creatures around us...OURSELVES....there's noway this could have been without a god....i mean to me..its more of common sense....if ok...someone believes that god doesnt exist....who created all these things around us? how can you have the whole universe going so accuratly...how can you have all these tiny yet amazing systems in our body? going from the nucleolus to the nucleus..to the cell all the way to us human beings as a whole??

i believe that all these just proof's god's existence....and as there are different religions,....there are different "forms" of god that everyone believes....although i do know for a fact that christianity and jewism(sp?) and islam are all from one source..and we believe in one god....im sorry if you guys dont agree with this:S..,..but my religion does tell me EVERYTHING about christianity and jewism and about Moses and Jesus..and all others...so i do know for a fact that there's one god....

so yeah..thats my opinion..coincidence cant happen billions and billions of times can it?

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A Transcendent Being Cannot Be Omnipresent

If God existsm then he is transcendent

If God exists, he is omnipresent

To be transcendent, a being cannot exist anywhere in space

To be omnipresent, a being must exist everywhere in space

Hence it is impossible for a transcendent begint to be omnipresence

Therefore it is impossible for God to exist

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A Transcendent Being Cannot Be Omnipresent

If God existsm then he is transcendent

If God exists, he is omnipresent

To be transcendent, a being cannot exist anywhere in space

To be omnipresent, a being must exist everywhere in space

Hence it is impossible for a transcendent begint to be omnipresence

Therefore it is impossible for God to exist

uhhh....what you just said...made no sense....where did you get this from?

and what religion are you?

oh...and this is a debate....so dont say..."impossible"...because then i could go like..."its impossible for god...NOT to be present"

thanks

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A Transcendent Being Cannot Be Omnipresent

If God existsm then he is transcendent

If God exists, he is omnipresent

To be transcendent, a being cannot exist anywhere in space

To be omnipresent, a being must exist everywhere in space

Hence it is impossible for a transcendent begint to be omnipresence

Therefore it is impossible for God to exist

However, what if God is the Ultimate Source of Energy (as we know so far energy cannot be created or destroyed and it is just regenerated), and as we know everything contains energy, therefore "God" is omnipresent.

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I respect all religions, so I could care less if someone believes in some sort of god or not. I have a lot of Atheist friends even when I'm a Christian myself. It's very interesting when we get to the conversation. I believe in God because when life's at its hardest and I turn to Him, there's some sort of "miracle" later in life that I will reflect to that hard time. But that's just me, so don't say that it doesn't happen to you. I know so many people who don't believe in God because they haven't seen proof yet. I was like that too, and just questioned so many Christians why they believe in such a god. But I'm very tolerant with religions and many people at church would be really surprised when I told them that I have a lot more Atheist/Agnostic friends and even had a few Islam friends. x-x;; That's what I don't like about many Christians. They're not that tolerant much, and they just piss me off. But that doesn't cut my belief in God.

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You say that there is no proof that God exist, but there is also little proof that he does not. although i attend a christian school, i consider myself an aethiest, and therefore i'm alittle bit of both sides. I believe that there is a 'God', a creator of what we have on earth, the universe...etc. But i do not believ in a God who monitors our world as a 14 yr old boy may play world of warcraft. I also believe in a heaven- a place after death. I think the question is not whether 'God' as an authorative power exist, but rather the faith in God that christians offer, and how they live by that faith. this means upholding the religion of the faith- regardless of which; and working to do good in the world. Perhaps God is just a creation of our minds, something/someone that we are able to blame when things go wrong, someone to confession to when we do bad things. It doesn't matter what God is or whether he really is a great big man peeping at us through clouds. As long as humans believe in him, and seek to bring good into the world in 'his' name, then God does exist. (think of the law of gravity)

Do you really consider yourself to be an atheist? An atheist, by definition, is someone who denies the existence of a God(s). Agnostic might be the word you are looking for.

Also, I really detest the "there is no proof he doesn't exist." Saying that is, to me at least, like saying "Guilty until proven contrary".

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don't turn around. there's a giant invisible pink unicorn behind you. It moves so fast, you can't touch it or feel it. But it's there. you can't PROVE it's not there!

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Big Bang?

But then that creates the question: What caused the Big Bang... hmm...

The Big Crunch...

The universe is the ultimate cycle. Expanding until it can expand no more, contracting until it can contract no more, and, then repeating. Time, therefore, is infinite--as is the universe.

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God, normally exists for people that are having a bad time (for instance poor people, they tend to be more religious)

However, the ironic thing is that they believe in a god when they are struggling. Aren't they suppossed to figure out that no god is helping them which means it does not exist? Rich people should be the ones to belive that it does exist.

I don't wanna believe in anything. ToK is religion enough for me :)

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God, normally exists for people that are having a bad time (for instance poor people, they tend to be more religious)

However, the ironic thing is that they believe in a god when they are struggling. Aren't they suppossed to figure out that no god is helping them which means it does not exist? Rich people should be the ones to belive that it does exist.

I don't wanna believe in anything. ToK is religion enough for me :)

Massive generalization. From TOK, you should have learned to not generalize and stereotype as it is closeminded and quite often incorrect.

And why do 'poor people' have no reason to believe in God? Sure, they may not be as well off financially, but emotionally, psychologically, intellectually, or even in terms of happiness and health, they may be much better off.

Religion is a personal belief system. There is no correlation or causation between personal finances and belief in God(s), or the lack thereof.

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God is simply an imaginary friend who gives us reason to not fear the nothingness after death.

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God is simply an imaginary friend who gives us reason to not fear the nothingness after death.

That attitude is a common one among atheists, and is generally presented without anything in the way of evidence save an unfair attack on any rational person who believes in a god or other manifestation of greater power. I would agree with you on one point, though, that god exists within the mind. I, however, would state that what exists in the mind is more real than what exists in a material sense, simply because we can doubt the material, yet we are unable to doubt the existence of consciousness. Whether or not a god is part of said consciousness will never be known, but it would be foolish to completely block out the possibility of ambiguity in whether or not there exists a god. The acceptance of this practically undeniable logic is called agnosticism, though many people accept the potential error in their beliefs, and instead choose to maintain, out of faith, that they personally think that there is/isn't a god. I only find issue with those who would refuse to admit that they are potentially wrong, or who would force their belief on others, and I would apply that to atheists and theists alike. There's fundamentalism in both camps.

Massive generalization. From TOK, you should have learned to not generalize and stereotype as it is closeminded and quite often incorrect.

And why do 'poor people' have no reason to believe in God? Sure, they may not be as well off financially, but emotionally, psychologically, intellectually, or even in terms of happiness and health, they may be much better off.

Religion is a personal belief system. There is no correlation or causation between personal finances and belief in God(s), or the lack thereof.

Reading Nietzche's analysis on master and slave morality, the argument exists with philosophical precedent to suggest that poor people or those who have been poor would hold value to the ideas of mercy, charity and equality, while those in power would look to actualizing humanity, creating art, and becoming as human as possible. By that regard, making generalizations is of course, inappropriate, but some manner of discourse on whether or not life experiences change beliefs, and what types of such experiences have certain effects is perfectly acceptable.

Edited by SharkSpider

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