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Homosexuality and Religion?

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Hi guys so I'm sorry if there has already been a post similar to this but I really want to know others opinion on this because this is a topic that REALLY bothers me.

So I'm pretty sure you have all heard about the recent shooting in a gay club in Orlando, and it was supposedly carried out by a Muslim man. As coming from a Muslim background myself, I have been grown to practically "hate" all gays/lesbians - it is not doubt that in most religions homosexuality is outwardly forbidden. My sibling, who is a transgender, already faces so much hardship and it is difficult for me to understand why there must be so much hatred?

I am in no way trying to bash religion as a cause of hatred towards homosexuality but I know far too many people that use religion as an excuse to degrade Gays and Lesbians. 

So what are your thoughts on that? 

 
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I do believe many use religion as an excuse to hate homosexuals, or anyone from the LGBTQ+ community. In many cases, religion is the cause of hatred in many (intolerance is proportional with amount of religious beliefs), though it is definitely not the only cause.

 

Social environment (liberal or conservative) plays a huge part in hatred as well. I know many gay people who despite having religious parents are being accepted with open arms as their parents don't take everything their Holy Book says literally. 

 

Personally, I experienced most of the discrimination from religious people. It is, however, wrong to generalise that all of the religious people hate gays (I know you didn't say that, but many think that's true), as I got a lot of support from my Muslim and Christian friends. There are quotes in the Bible, Quran, and other books which specifically target gay people, but modern believers don't take that literally anymore (these books are over 2000 years old - come on. Nowadays even 10 years is a long time in terms of changes in society!).

 

I personally believe the problems starts with the access to weapons itself - and we should thank NRA for being so stupid (the only appropriate word I can find). It wouldn't have happened if the guy didn't have an access to weapons in the first place. 

Even though religion plays a major role in hatred towards homosexuals, I think it's mostly only the super-conservative ones who detest LGBTQ+ people so much they'd actually kill them. 

 

The only thing which saddens me is the fact that I don't mind these people are religious, yet they have something against LGBTQ+. Not cool, especially since we're not the ones discriminating...

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People use religion, thinking that it is a valid excuse to hate a group of people. You'll have the people who say "I hate all religions. Religious people are dumb. They should die." to " My religion is the best. People who don't believe in my religion are dumb. They should die"

Also seems to be that this shooter isn't the model Muslim judging from what is being said in the media. Oh wait. According to media, a proper Muslim goes around killing people.

It's true that Islam isn't fond of homosexuality, I will not deny it. However, Islam also teaches to respect people, regardless if they're Muslim or not or whatever and however the choose to live their life. Seems that people killing in the name of Islam overlook the bit about respecting others. So it seems that we can't blame religion for the problem but the idiots who decide to follow the parts of the religion they like and ignore the parts that they don't agree with.

Personally, I'm not bothered by how people choose to live their life and what their beliefs are. After all, religion say that its up to a higher deity to judge you, and I'm content with that. Likewise, I would at least hope my views are tolerated (It's too naive to hope or expect respect for my beliefs)

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Even without religious sentiments, people still look down upon homosexuality simply because it is "different" and most people fear things that are not normal. Religion simply enforces the feeling of hatred towards homosexuality. People who look down on gays and use religion as a reason to do so are naive, because all religions teach their followers to love everyone, regardless of their background. And even if a person has committed a fault, we should help them repent and get back on the right path, not shun them out for the rest of their lives. 

Now my view on homosexuality is, at the end of the day, it's not right, according to Christianity. But that doesn't give anyone the right to degrade someone who is gay. Society doesn't understand that most people who are gay didn't choose to be, they were born with it. While I don't really oppose homosexuality, I don't encourage it either. 

The most important takeaway here is: Stop hating, hurting, and discriminating others because of something. You don't know how and why they did what they did or are the way they are.

I hope more people will be aware of this.

 

Edited by Daryl Ryan
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Unfortunately religion is in the business of telling everybody how they should lead their lives at all times, and even more unfortunately, people who follow that religion often take it into their own hands to enforce. It would certainly be a lot simpler if people did what Rosalina said and left it up to deity X to judge you, should they turn out to exist when you die, and let everybody be responsible for their own fate in that regard - although even then you're subject to a certain degree of at best passive negativity and pity from those around you, which is obviously better than hate but not the same as being treated as an equal. See above poster who would 'not encourage' it - I personally don't go around encouraging anybody to have sexual relations, I leave it up to them as I'm sure that poster also does. Why specifically 'not encourage' a group of people? It's not hateful but it's treating them as a kind of special case, and it is fundamentally a negative attitude.

Even if you did say it was up to the god to judge, you still can't get away from the fact that a lot of religions do have some very sweeping negative statements about things which are 'wrong', so presumably that person must also know that what they are doing goes against particular points in the religious texts they've chosen to follow. And then even if you're not facing any external hatred, you get cases of internal hatred and thereby a lot of confusion - which by all accounts may have been part of the Orlando murderer's psychology, who allegedly frequented this gay club and was ?secretly gay in some way himself, but found it all so contradictory that he essentially went nuts and killed 49 people. We can never fully know because the man is dead, but evidence does point that way. Even if your neighbour doesn't judge you, there's nothing to stop you from judging yourself - and religion plays an important role in that for people with a conscience.

IMO anyone who thinks they can tell people that an activity which harms absolutely nobody is 'right' or 'wrong' needs to realise that they've no business telling other people how to live their lives, regardless of whether that is a personal opinion or an opinion drawn from some religious doctrine. If it did harm others then that would clearly be totally different. And frankly in an ideal world I think that religions should look at what they're preaching to people and recognise that perhaps equating homosexuality with rape, violence, murder, crime and so on is something that could be reviewed.

Is god really obsessed with who we have sex with, provided it is all consensual and safe, and that we live a good life, harming nobody and helping others? Given the equivalent stresses on kindness, empathy, treating others as you'd wish to be treated and so on within most religions then it is a bit of a contradictory attitude and from that basis who knows, maybe there is some rational basis for re-thinking.

In the absence of this re-thinking, then opining on the private sex lives of others should, IMO self-evidently, be none of my or anyone else's business (except in the comfort of my own head where, frankly, I'm still not that interested anyway!).

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Can a religious minded individual have a gay friend?  I speak from experience.

 

Or is that simply not allowed?

 

 

Can you just distinguish the act of sexual relations from the viewpoint that everyone has a right to be loved and to love other people.   There is a single act of power in things.  Love, harmony and charity.  That's what I'm leaning towards in my belief system anyway.

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I am a Muslim and I can rest assure that in Islam being homosexual is NOT a sin. As some make a connection with racism and this, I agree that as no one choose their skin colour, they don't choose to be a homosexual. Judging people is not OKAY in Islam. HOWEVER, unlike personalities, ACTIONS count. If you somehow engage in some kinds of action with your partner, it is a sin. 

For explaining this, I can use a metaphor. If you say that they don't choose to be homosexual, which has not been scientifically proven (no fact like that, yet, let's assume it's), then how come they cannot engage in action. This is like ADULTERY. When one is married and likes someone else, that person does not choose to have feelings towards that person, right? But married one CAN CONTROL himself/herself. Indeed, if she/he does not control herself/himself, then it is considered as a wrong deed. 

Summing up, I have no problems with homosexuals and I believe that it is their exam in this life. 

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3 hours ago, Amina13 said:

I am a Muslim and I can rest assure that in Islam being homosexual is NOT a sin. As some make a connection with racism and this, I agree that as no one choose their skin colour, they don't choose to be a homosexual. Judging people is not OKAY in Islam. HOWEVER, unlike personalities, ACTIONS count. If you somehow engage in some kinds of action with your partner, it is a sin. 

For explaining this, I can use a metaphor. If you say that they don't choose to be homosexual, which has not been scientifically proven (no fact like that, yet, let's assume it's), then how come they cannot engage in action. This is like ADULTERY. When one is married and likes someone else, that person does not choose to have feelings towards that person, right? But married one CAN CONTROL himself/herself. Indeed, if she/he does not control herself/himself, then it is considered as a wrong deed. 

Summing up, I have no problems with homosexuals and I believe that it is their exam in this life. 

I appreciate the distinction you have made, but cannot help but feel (from a non-religious perspective) that it is a completely ridiculous position to take as regards real life. At least the adulterer who is married has some kind of love and intimacy possible in their life. Besides, your example (I appreciate it is just a metaphor) is wrong on a rather important count which I think is also a distinction to consider, which is that adultery is wrong not because of the deed and actions, but because of the harm that comes from it. There is no equivalent harm from homosexuality.

A life of no physical intimacy and therefore no love is actually a lot to ask of someone. It is no small thing to say somebody's whole life must be lived as a punishment for mysterious divine reasons.

I appreciate that what you say is your own view and that you've got it out of the book of Islamic opinions so it can be backed up by what is written there, but I guess I just wanted to highlight how what you are saying is actually a very big deal to an individual person in their life. In my opinion it's asking way too much of people, for the fairly weak reason that they're subject to some kind of unknown original sin, unlucky old them are going to have to live their entire lives with none of the important relationships that sustain human beings - no matter how good they or their life is, or how much they do or don't love god. It seems completely unjustifiable.

But that's why I'm not religious haha.

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On 6/19/2016 at 9:23 AM, Sandwich said:

Unfortunately religion is in the business of telling everybody how they should lead their lives at all times, and even more unfortunately, people who follow that religion often take it into their own hands to enforce. It would certainly be a lot simpler if people did what Rosalina said and left it up to deity X to judge you, should they turn out to exist when you die, and let everybody be responsible for their own fate in that regard - although even then you're subject to a certain degree of at best passive negativity and pity from those around you, which is obviously better than hate but not the same as being treated as an equal.

 

Do you mind explaining how having a "live and let live" attitude means that you look down on them?

That's certainly not what I mean when I say to leave judgement to a deity...

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4 hours ago, Rosalina said:

Do you mind explaining how having a "live and let live" attitude means that you look down on them?

That's certainly not what I mean when I say to leave judgement to a deity...

If my response came across as being with reference to your comment (as opposed to the comment above my post, which is what I intended to reference) then I did not intend that. I was in fact trying to say that your concept was a positive one. It takes the onus away from judgement by people and puts it into the nebulous world of judgement by god which at least keeps all of this angst for ?another life time, should that exist. Whether or not you share the point of view of the comment I was referring to, I have no idea.

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9 hours ago, Amina13 said:

I am a Muslim and I can rest assure that in Islam being homosexual is NOT a sin.

Wait what? I'm pretty sure being homosexual is a sin in Islam, in fact it's a major sin. 

Al-Qamar 54:34 - "Indeed, We sent upon them a storm of stones, except the family of Lot - We saved them before dawn." 

Al-A'raf 7:81 -  "Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people." 

Al-Manl 27:55 - "Do you indeed approach men with desire instead of women? Rather, you are a people of behaving ignorantly." 

Quran 4:16 - "And the two who commit it among you, dishonour them both. But if they repent and correct themselves, leave them both. Indeed, Allah is ever Accepting of repentance and Merciful." 

So these verses above clearly address the disapproval Islam has against homosexuality, and it actually goes beyond that. In most Islamic countries it is acceptable to burn and stone people to death, throw them off a high building then stone them to death or merely just stone them. Something that plays with my mind is that Islam also teaches us to be kind and respectful to others and accept them for who they are and not judge them based on their choices and mistakes, but then seeing things like this really confuses me. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sandwich said:

If my response came across as being with reference to your comment (as opposed to the comment above my post, which is what I intended to reference) then I did not intend that. I was in fact trying to say that your concept was a positive one. It takes the onus away from judgement by people and puts it into the nebulous world of judgement by god which at least keeps all of this angst for ?another life time, should that exist. Whether or not you share the point of view of the comment I was referring to, I have no idea.

Sorry about that. I wasn't sure what you meant.

Thanks for clarifying.

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We all hold our own beliefs and preferences, and I believe we should not force what we believe onto others. Just because a religion we believe in forbids us to be homosexual, we shouldn't frown upon those who are homosexual and hate them, for we barely know them otherwise beyond the fact that they are homosexual. If someone's sexual preferences cause no harm to society, I see no reason why we should hate or punish.

I am not religious, though I believe if you are Christian (I'm not as familiar with the Islamic view), you are taught to "love thy neighbour as yourself". I'm sure there are similar views in other religions. No matter what the others' views are, one should learn to respect their beliefs, or have a civilized argument. We should debate ideas, not debate people. Aside from that, is not killing someone who is homosexual even worse a crime/sin than being homosexual? After all, you're taking away life from someone!

Two wrongs never made a right, and this case is no exception.

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6 hours ago, Scribblefish said:

We all hold our own beliefs and preferences, and I believe we should not force what we believe onto others. Just because a religion we believe in forbids us to be homosexual, we shouldn't frown upon those who are homosexual and hate them, for we barely know them otherwise beyond the fact that they are homosexual. If someone's sexual preferences cause no harm to society, I see no reason why we should hate or punish.

I am not religious, though I believe if you are Christian (I'm not as familiar with the Islamic view), you are taught to "love thy neighbour as yourself". I'm sure there are similar views in other religions. No matter what the others' views are, one should learn to respect their beliefs, or have a civilized argument. We should debate ideas, not debate people. Aside from that, is not killing someone who is homosexual even worse a crime/sin than being homosexual? After all, you're taking away life from someone!

Two wrongs never made a right, and this case is no exception.

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I totally agree :) Well said, Scribblefish. I'll go for that. This view, I believe, is too much similar with Islamic perception to the point. 

Edited by Amina13

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People tend to fear what they do not understand to the greatest extent. My personal denomination does not hate homosexuals/people who like the same gender. They believe like any couple whether straight or gay, you need to wait to be married before you have sexual relations. That is where they lost me because they want all homosexuals to commit to either trying to be straight or go celibate their whole life. With their interpretation on marriage, they believe that your union has to be approved not be the law, but by the church. And so you see the problem. The church will never allow gays to marry. in my personal opinion, I think that Religion is not meant to be this big giant rule book. It is supposed to be a lifestyle choice that allows you to enjoy life and be happy, not to feel awful about yourself when you do something. Religion should not confine you or define you. Because then you lose your individuality. I am not just a boy. I am not just a christian. I am me. 

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Religion is certainly used as a reason/excuse of discrimination, and it must always be remembered discrimination is not justified by these reasons.

However, holy writings of these religions (Bible/Quran) have passages that condemn homosexuality as sinful. I am NOT saying this justifies discrimination. I simply believe that asking the question *Are Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) inherently in conflict with values about equality and tolerate of modern civilization* is very relevant, and I believe the answer is yes. They are in conflict if you follow their holy writings. I know many people are moderate, but there are many who are not. I think it is time people are not silent about evil of religion in fear of offending someone. Religion must be subject to criticism just like everything else. Criticism doesn't mean religious people aren't tolerated, unfortunately many religious take the criticism to their religion or certain followers of it as personal attack, which it is not.

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Guest

I actually find it very funny that people are spending time and effort to ban love. 

I read the bible and there are so many things that are just insane, and we know that. E.g. Someone should be stoned to death because they work on Sunday.... It is ok to sell your daughter into slavery.  People might not believe that. (hopefully) They might not agree with everything in the bible. 

So really... They are probably just picking and choosing the quotes from the bible to justify their godless acts. It is never about god. It is just about them. They probably didn't get enough hugs when they were kids. I feel bad for them.....

Overall, I am sure if god will actually frown on people's love for their partner. If it is in fact, a loving god. 

Edited by Guest

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The primary thing that a person needs to consider before irrational making a judgement is that, Religion, to me  is a guide that was invented to lead the world in the part of riotousness. Now if we all agree on the overwhelming belief that we all place in religion, Then I would like to term religion as a medium of hypocrisy due to the sole fact that Homosexuality and transgender used to exist within some religion (Hindu). The gods themselves did it. (exculpatory evidence:https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-17999c2689b87dbcb8a6123f20b8b566-c?convert_to_webp=true) and just google "homosexuality in mythology) Then this leads to the question, Why did people still love and worship the "homosexual" gods? The answer is - Humans want to feel dominance and they use religion as an excuse to dominate power and control. Therefore this power seeking attitude and lack of acceptance in a hippocratic manner is what is going to doom this world, not the Homosexuals.

 

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