I'm wondering...

[biochem]

Where I come from, Physics + chemistry are taught at 5th grade level. The same material starts in normal high school around America in 9th grade. However, Serbia is a really poor country. most kids enter a program called "Gimnazia", which is equivalent to IB standards. Some of these schools, if they can afford it, turn the program into IB, and only depends on the fact if they want to bother with internal assessments or not. Linguistic studies in IB, I think, are extremely well-assessed. However, I think IB group 4 is the best quality education you can receive for someone geared towards a scientific degree.

Like mentioned, some private schools take IB to extreme, and make sure their students get the highest marks. Schools mostly, who have a average 40 IB point diploma score. But these schools, cost 20k or less a year, and you sit in a room with a single professor ( hired upon courses requested). I wanted to do boarding IB school in China, it was my dream. But my parents cant afford the private school + expense of China. My kids will be doing that though

AP I honestly think is not a rigurous program. And for the simple reason that you dont take, normally, 7 AP periods in traditional or other programs. The schools I know which test AP, disperese it amongst the 4 years of high school which is soooooooo easy. that would be like studying Math Sl + history = 9th grade. Language senior year, + other combinations. My school is making us take AP exams for fun, to boost school score, senior year. We dont study for it, we will only be notified of certain parameters, like spanish oral the day before. they know and understand well... IB > AP.

But I dont know much about China. I just know their public school system is strenuous and highly competitive. So China > world

[moneyfaery]

But I dont know much about China. I just know their public school system is strenuous and highly competitive. So China > world

The problem with the Chinese educational system is that it teaches you to rote-learn i.e. it prepares you for the life of a worker and not a manager. That is, you don't make your own decisions, you just listen to your boss and do it! Your bosses in turn listen to their bosses and blah blah blah. Somewhere along the line, corruption ensues and no one does anything (it's getting better though )

In comparison to my Chinese counterparts, yes, I appear to be dumb in maths, chemistry, etc etc but I'll whip yo ass up in an argument.

Of course, not everyone is like this but for the majority of the population, it's study study study work work work work die.

[Scade]

Like mentioned, some private schools take IB to extreme, and make sure their students get the highest marks. Schools mostly, who have a average 40 IB point diploma score. But these schools, cost 20k or less a year, and you sit in a room with a single professor ( hired upon courses requested).

I come from a school where the average is between 37 and 39 (okay, well not the mentioned 40, but there are only like a couple of schools that have that) and I don't really feel like it's being taken to the extreme here. I don't know if you meant schools in your own country though.

However, it is free here. Well my school is private, but in the sense that we are allowed to keep our own entrance exam, doesn't cost anything. We certainly don't sit in a room with a single professor. We have classes ranging from 5 to 20+. And the teaching isn't really even that intensive But still, we manage rather good results. The key word is not working hard all the time, but rather optimising the work:rest ratio, and making sure that you work on the right assignments.

[biochem]

Well that was obviously an example. And as always, there is a counter example.

I dont know of any Ib schools who have a 40 score on their own consistently. that is, the class itself is the only thing that keeps the scores up, and as you are trying to describe no external influence is done on the scores. That example comes from Europe, I think Russia to be specific. Again, just like medical school, these scores are sometimes carved out by the actual entrance exams. So that, a claim like 100% of our kids get over 38 on their Ib exams, can be made by allowing only extremely successful people to enter the school. This is especially true of IB in public schools, but very crowded places. But again, IB is very relative and it really depends on the program. Even the aclaimed scores that are posted on the school's websites, are nothing to trust (factors to look at: size of class, classes taken +)

and Irene, I am sorry to say but I dont know If I would rather be successful in math + science or whip up an excellent argument. Most of the time, though not discussed in school, Chinese students research these topics. I know this for a fact, cause the I am in contact with some of them Though there is no place for such a class like TOK, the Chinese system stretches student comprehension to the max and I tend to agree with the system of ranking students. there is a plethora of psychological tests to indicate this type of approach is very influential, and also horrible (Korean kids committing suicide). So to say really, I think the question is based on the mere fact of self-study. Could you learn the Sciences all on your own like that, or could you learn argumentative skills just through internet research. I Would tend to agree with the Chinese system of schooling for everything. Even the scouting of gymnastic skills is something I would push as a positive impact on the overall society. Talent is clearly evident at a young age, but thats another story

[moneyfaery]

This might be a bit selfish and lazy on my part, but what I was trying to say is that yes, the Chinese system pushes 'talented' students and makes them succeed. There is nothing wrong with this and quite beneficial from the looks of things. But the smartest students often go into research - working for others. Arguably, the 'not-as-smart' students learn to work for themselves (we're talking about math/science intelligence here - other types don't count).

This is even evident in North America. How often do you see a top boss e.g. Pres or Vice-Pres who knows all the technical details of a project? My dad's bosses certainly aren't as qualified as he is (MSc + P.Eng license) - they mostly have BSc's or College degrees. Yet, they're the ones running the company and rightly so.

With that said, I wouldn't mind if the system here was more EXAM IS WORTH 100% OF YOUR LIFE but not to that extreme, I don't think. There's more to life than just being good at the sciences/math; and they alone can't get you far anyway.

[biochem]

very good point made. I dont think we should adopt all of China's fundamental concepts - but it would be nice to have ranks in classes and other things. What I am trying to say is, that kind of thing would never happen here. If we were to adopt their ideas as far as the education system in some of the areas, and combine it with the diligence which some of us here on the forums have, then it would only produce a much more structured education. the biggest misconception is "i am in the IBO program". Riiigghht. Now what exactly are you doing with this, and are you actually learning. China makes sure you do these things :]

[ImMario]

the only thing that would be harder i think would be taking all AP classes the tests are harder i think

[moneyfaery]

very good point made. I dont think we should adopt all of China's fundamental concepts - but it would be nice to have ranks in classes and other things. What I am trying to say is, that kind of thing would never happen here. If we were to adopt their ideas as far as the education system in some of the areas, and combine it with the diligence which some of us here on the forums have, then it would only produce a much more structured education. the biggest misconception is "i am in the IBO program". Riiigghht. Now what exactly are you doing with this, and are you actually learning. China makes sure you do these things :]

Ah, now we have an agreement. If we were to 'push' students just slightly, maybe they'd work a bit harder. Personally, I need a kick and a shove to start working.

[biochem]

the only thing that would be harder i think would be taking all AP classes the tests are harder i think

wow. I have a huge problem with AP. I actually will take/took the following AP classes along with IB:

chem

bio

euro history

american history

government politics

spanish read

spanish write

english read

english writing

micro

macro

computer science

art history

+ one more undetermined

Only some of these I have to study for. my IB classes cover the material needed to score a 5 :]]

SO in my mind IB > AP