Language B: Taken by fluent students

[Hyperbole]

Actually, it appears I was wrong in what I said about the US and English proficiency before. (I'm not applying there myself, so I don't have detailed knowledge of it. *shifty*)

My Maths teacher is responsible for helping people apply to the US in our region, and for some reason we came to talk about the issue in class, and apparently US universities will almost always require IELTS or TOEFL scores as proof of proficiency if you do not have a passport from an English speaking country. I think it's really, really stupid: one of my friends who is Polish/American only has a Polish passport, and so she would have to take one of those tests if she ever wanted to study in the US.

So I think it will depend on where in the world you go whether your IB Diploma proves your fluency or not. In my opinion it should, but... I guess not everybody is of the same opinion.

[Tilia]

Actually, it appears I was wrong in what I said about the US and English proficiency before. (I'm not applying there myself, so I don't have detailed knowledge of it. *shifty*)

My Maths teacher is responsible for helping people apply to the US in our region, and for some reason we came to talk about the issue in class, and apparently US universities will almost always require IELTS or TOEFL scores as proof of proficiency if you do not have a passport from an English speaking country. I think it's really, really stupid: one of my friends who is Polish/American only has a Polish passport, and so she would have to take one of those tests if she ever wanted to study in the US.

So I think it will depend on where in the world you go whether your IB Diploma proves your fluency or not. In my opinion it should, but... I guess not everybody is of the same opinion.

I have no ideas what the IELTS or TOEFL are, but I've heard that the diploma counts as a Cambridge diploma. I have all my classes in English, so I think I'll be reasonably fluent when I graduate.

Well, in that case I have to take some test to prove my proficiency... I wish wish wish wish that it would be possible to take 3 languages and 2 sciences Because I guess that the highest mark in the "ordinary" English A and English B from a Swedish school wouldn't be much to boast with...?

[Hyperbole]

Well, in that case I have to take some test to prove my proficiency... I wish wish wish wish that it would be possible to take 3 languages and 2 sciences Because I guess that the highest mark in the "ordinary" English A and English B from a Swedish school wouldn't be much to boast with...?

I think you're quite right in that assumption. They're not exactly impressive courses. And I think that if you're aiming to go to the US you would probably have needed extra tests anyway, unless you could magically get a US/British/Canadian/Australian/etc. passport. I'm almost entirely sure that one of the guys in my English A2 HL class who is one of the few people applying to the US this year took the TOEFL exam because A2 HL wasn't proof enough. So.

As for the UK, I don't actually know how they would respond to a lack of an English course. But I think that English A+B from the Swedish system in combination with the IB Diploma would probably be enough. (It just occurred to me that that might be why none of the universities who have offered me places have made conditions on English. I submitted all the courses I have grades in from the Swedish system, including English, so that might just be enough for them?)

...Perhaps there should be another topic discussing the Necessity or Not Necessity of Taking English by splitting off a few of the posts from this topic?

[biochem]

The advantage crap is bull. What I am trying to say is that this advantage shouldn't exist at all. Language B, is clearly for students who are absolutely not fluent in that language. I was so upset , or jealous u could say, when we just did orals and one of the Spanish girls got up and sat down in the chair. The teacher dropped her pen, started looking at her nails and fixing them with the surrounding objects. she didnt even pay attention to the oral, the questions which came at the student were general ones with nothing to do with the topic. So stupid. I have heard several of these cases where a fluent student is entirely ignored in class, in a good way I guess, because the teacher knows that they will score ihgh. after she finished, the teacher slammed her article on the desk, yelled/sighed loudly she was tired, and then said "30!!". I dunno. I am just honestly at this point, disgusted by the fact that a school would pride itslef on integrity, but the teachers blindly allow students to take the class so they can have higher scores. My favorite part was when we id averages in the class of the passing rate, and many studets couldn't figure out why some class were ridiculously high. umm..Duh. fluent students are spiking the mean u idiots

I will be the first to admit I am jealous of the advantage. But at the end of the day, none of their work will amount to my linguistic skills. Learned English well enough to take it at HL A1 in a few years. so I guess its up to the person to decide what they want to do. I wouldn't personally take the easy way out. Otherwise, I would be taking environmental, math studies + english B.

[Tilia]

(You always seem to end up as the one answering my questions, don't you? )

Well, taking a test is not the end of the world. Besides I haven't decided where I want to study, so it'll be fine, I guess.

[greaterthaninfinity]

Same situation at my school and I also find this extremely unethical. This is, in my opinion, essentially a SCHOOL not condoning cheating but encouraging it instead; pretty damn hypocritical.

[biochem]

Thank you Thats pretty much what I was trying to say the whole time.

I know that the students at my school had to take a pre-spanish test. But I am so aware of the fact that, basically it was for the record only. So that should a conflict arise ,they would pull scores and say "but look, she failed it". several kids, as you can imagine did it on purpose. And it doesn't help, when the first week of homeroom the students are carrying fluent conversations with the teacher. Nothing said, Nothing done

[Sandwich]

We have the same situation at our school :[

Although the school doesn't offer English B, only A1 or A2. One of my friends actually does A1 one language, B the second language (gets 100%) and actually speaks a third language!

French and Spanish have native speakers taking the B classes, though. I don't mind it as it's good for them, but it does make our grades look v. bad!

[LinuxBeta]

We do have something similar at my school, but the situation is different. At our school, everyone MUST take English A1 HL, and French B. There is no choice. We do have one or two native French speakers, but they're taking French B HL. It's not like they have a choice, and it's not like they took SL to kill it. That's what happens when your school has too much variety . People abuse the system.

[1-2-3]

I've been thinking about the same issue recently.

& Yeah. It does seem to be quite unfair.

In our school, it's the same case.

People who have French as their first language/ have been learning it since Grade 4 are in the same class with people who started learning French in Grade 9...

[mizyou]

yea this is quite an issue at my school too

i have a friend who is basically fluent in spanish but is taking spanish ab

which i find totally unfair

i was forced to take french B simply because the teachers thought i was capable of doing it

i didn't have a choice at all

i only had a year and a half of experience of learning french

so im studying real hard for French B

[hermine0817]

In our school, nobody took their mothertongue as B so far though. We have few German mothertongues who have all chosen to do A levels (either A1 or A2). We have some people who lived in Germany for seven years, still taking B courses, but that would be something different I suppose (even though they are quite fluent in the language)

We even have a French girl who does not take any French course at all. Funny, huh? (But then, we only offer French as B, not A)

Edited April 17, 2009 by hermine0817

[rainbow]

In our school, nobody took their mothertongue as B so far though. We have few German mothertongues who have all chosen to do A levels (either A1 or A2). We have some people who lived in Germany for seven years, still taking B courses, but that would be something different I suppose (even though they are quite fluent in the language)

We even have a French girl who does not take any French course at all. Funny, huh? (But then, we only offer French as B, not A)

We have quite the same situation in our school . no one who's a native speaker in a language B is allowed to take it .

So I can't take german B HL and its not offered as A .So I have no german at all. I'm quite surprised that there are so many school who allow people to take language B, even when they are fluent .

I really want to do german as B , but I can totally understand it would be really unfair for my class mates.

[meh]

There doesn't seem to be any guidelines AT ALL at my school about this. People who have been in French immersion all through elementary/jr. high are allowed to do French A2. Perhaps that's just the way it is because my school doesn't offer any other IB language courses.

[Xelar]

I hate it. My school doesn't offer French A1 or A2, so if you want to take French you have to take B. There are three francophones in my class. I think it's extremely unfair that I'm studying vocab words and having trouble with the course work while they breeze through it simply because it's their first language. They ace all their oral presentations because their pronunciation is spot on and they are using complex words. Schools should restrict this, the francophones should be doing self taught.l

[hermine0817]

There doesn't seem to be any guidelines AT ALL at my school about this. People who have been in French immersion all through elementary/jr. high are allowed to do French A2. Perhaps that's just the way it is because my school doesn't offer any other IB language courses.

I think them taking A2 is not really a problem. A2 really should have people who are near-native speakers. The only problem is the B-courses where it is considerably unfair (in my opinion at least) to have people who are perfect in that particular language.

[Vvi]

Is this true? Wev'e always been told that if you get your diploma you're considered fluent in English, even if you''ve not studied it as a subject. I especially asked teachers about this before I decided to actually not choose English A2.

You aren't considered fluent in English if you don't have English A1 or A2 as a subject in your IB diploma. I was worried about having to take a TOEFL test or IELTS test because they cost so much, but when I applied to the UK they saw that I had English A1 HL as a subject and that was enough for them. Certain subjects in the UK (like my course in Intl Relations) requires me to get a 5 in English HL because the vocabulary and essay writing level is demanding, and I'm not sure what they would ask you to achieve instead of that. Obviously a 5 in Swedish A1 isn't the same. So I think you do need to take an extra test to prove profociency.

[TeeBlake]

So for some reason, my school allows fluent students to take Language B, instead of giving them a different language option. We had practice orals last week, and of course the fluent kids scored a near perfect on their interactive oral. Their parents only speak Spanish at home.

I just dont see how this is ethical. The schools get a false reputation for language B curriculum, and the students taking the classes while fluent earn an easy grade. The language B is specifically designed for students who don't speak the language, not those who wish to earn an "easy 7".

whats your school policy and take on this?

i live in Chinese Central in Canada....and all of our Mandarin B SL students have some background in chinese....they're all chinese born....

i was forced to take Lang B even though i'm fluent 'cause my school doesn't offer A2....it is introduced to us as self taught....so no directino at all...and i'm not strong enough writer to do that

[bohemian03]

That's the case at my school too. A lot of native Spanish speakers are taking Spanish B HL. I was about to take Japanese B HL but because I got a 7 on my mocks, my IB coordinator said it was a waste of time.

[herong2x]

I know of a person who is fluent in English cuz he has stayed here for like 10 years but is a foreigner.

He took English B as HL since it will be easier for him and his mother tongue as SL

I know that he is either getting high 5 or high 6 not sure if he is getting 7

The teacher told him to move to A2 but he decided to stay there since it is an easy way out for him

and yea its unfair cuz I personally feel that some people in our school chose their subjects in the range where it is easy

for them not really lining it to their course they will take in college

Im not sure if that is in most cases though