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Language B: Taken by fluent students


biochem

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Well, to be honest... The fluent speakers who take a "Language B" had to learn that language at some point as well... So...

I totally get the point that getting that easy seven is unfair, but ... As they had to learn that language too (it didnt just fly to them), i believe that it is/was their choice.

Well, actually, being brought up bilingual, like many in my family were, means they don't have to work at it at all as it is just natural to them. It is a lot easier than learning it at an older age as well. However, don't think I'm denying that it was hard, because I know being brought up bilingual is just as confusing. I just agree with many others in saying that if you speak a language fluently and are doing it as a language B, you're just taking the easy way out and I don't think its always right or even fair on other students.

Also, I have to mention that if it is English in question, I really do believe it is a lot easier for many to learn English due to how many people speak it, how it is used everywhere on the internet and it takes control of the media (especially film and music). Like, I find it actually really hard to find many films in French online and obviously I see very few people speaking French ever, so I don't hear the language as often.

Or how about say those who are not perfectly fluent and are taking language B - are taking the hard way out, a situation that they brought upon themselves for not putting in the effort at a younger age? And I think learning a language at an 'older' age (17/18s, not old people) is easier because your thinking is more/fully developed...

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Well, to be honest... The fluent speakers who take a "Language B" had to learn that language at some point as well... So...

I totally get the point that getting that easy seven is unfair, but ... As they had to learn that language too (it didnt just fly to them), i believe that it is/was their choice.

Well, actually, being brought up bilingual, like many in my family were, means they don't have to work at it at all as it is just natural to them. It is a lot easier than learning it at an older age as well. However, don't think I'm denying that it was hard, because I know being brought up bilingual is just as confusing. I just agree with many others in saying that if you speak a language fluently and are doing it as a language B, you're just taking the easy way out and I don't think its always right or even fair on other students.

Also, I have to mention that if it is English in question, I really do believe it is a lot easier for many to learn English due to how many people speak it, how it is used everywhere on the internet and it takes control of the media (especially film and music). Like, I find it actually really hard to find many films in French online and obviously I see very few people speaking French ever, so I don't hear the language as often.

Or how about say those who are not perfectly fluent and are taking language B - are taking the hard way out, a situation that they brought upon themselves for not putting in the effort at a younger age? And I think learning a language at an 'older' age (17/18s, not old people) is easier because your thinking is more/fully developed...

no i don't agree with you because it is up to the parents, not the child. if my mum had chosen to speak to me in swedish and my dad english i would have been brought up bilingual and been able to take subjects, due to my parents choice not my own. But my parents decided not to do that, so i only speak english fluently (and am in the process of getting to fluent french hopefullly... :) )

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Well, to be honest... The fluent speakers who take a "Language B" had to learn that language at some point as well... So...

I totally get the point that getting that easy seven is unfair, but ... As they had to learn that language too (it didnt just fly to them), i believe that it is/was their choice.

Well, actually, being brought up bilingual, like many in my family were, means they don't have to work at it at all as it is just natural to them. It is a lot easier than learning it at an older age as well.

Taking into consideration that I was not brought up bilingual, I might be wrong, but this is my opinion:

In IB, we learn the language very similarly to how children learn language - language B is based on understanding and communication, much less on grammar. I am taking German HL together with SL class, and we do very little grammar exercises. My teacher said that we will have no grammar questions on our finals, and language is only a part of the essay grade. Sure, you have to know how to write decently, but in no way are you obliged to know the names of the tenses or even give an explanation on why you used it as long as it is correct. That being said, we are learning our language B the same way the bilingual students did in their youth.

Basically, we are doing the work that they have already done. Of course, having a parent speak to you in another language/having greater exposure to a second language (being brought up bilingual) makes it easier to pick up a language than learning it in school and at home with books/music/films, but then again, so does having a math teacher for a father, yet no one is complaining about those students taking math SL.

Furthermore, I suspect that fluent students had to put less effort to reach the level of knowledge (while learning it in their childhood) needed for 7 in HL language B than an average student, however I would assume that the effort they had to put into keeping both of their languages at a fluent level, especially when a bit older (languages are easy to forget if you don't use them daily) would be around the level an average student puts into HL language B.

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Well, to be honest... The fluent speakers who take a "Language B" had to learn that language at some point as well... So...

I totally get the point that getting that easy seven is unfair, but ... As they had to learn that language too (it didnt just fly to them), i believe that it is/was their choice.

Well, actually, being brought up bilingual, like many in my family were, means they don't have to work at it at all as it is just natural to them. It is a lot easier than learning it at an older age as well.

Taking into consideration that I was not brought up bilingual, I might be wrong, but this is my opinion:

In IB, we learn the language very similarly to how children learn language - language B is based on understanding and communication, much less on grammar. I am taking German HL together with SL class, and we do very little grammar exercises. My teacher said that we will have no grammar questions on our finals, and language is only a part of the essay grade. Sure, you have to know how to write decently, but in no way are you obliged to know the names of the tenses or even give an explanation on why you used it as long as it is correct. That being said, we are learning our language B the same way the bilingual students did in their youth.

Basically, we are doing the work that they have already done. Of course, having a parent speak to you in another language/having greater exposure to a second language (being brought up bilingual) makes it easier to pick up a language than learning it in school and at home with books/music/films, but then again, so does having a math teacher for a father, yet no one is complaining about those students taking math SL.

Furthermore, I suspect that fluent students had to put less effort to reach the level of knowledge (while learning it in their childhood) needed for 7 in HL language B than an average student, however I would assume that the effort they had to put into keeping both of their languages at a fluent level, especially when a bit older (languages are easy to forget if you don't use them daily) would be around the level an average student puts into HL language B.

Hmm see I get your point about you still have to learn the language whether as a child or an IB student. However, I still completely disagree. We are not learning the language like children do in their youth, and either way I also include students who lived in a country for like 4 years to be taking an easy way out. No, I don't think you can say that they can't do the language in IB, because they can. Students who speak a language fluently because of their parents or where they lived definitely had an easier time learning it.

And your example of the math teacher is not really very accurate as nearly all teachers I'm sure would not want to speak to their child in maths equations... but if you're talking about tutoring and stuff then yes I agree tutoring a child silly at a young age is wrong, simply because i really believe school should not be about competition (especially at a young age) and should be about learning. which takes me back to the language B problem, which is that I simply believe that any student who speaks a language fluently (but obviously not those who taught it to themselves and worked hard in school for it like some people I know) are definitely not getting the most out of their education and are even taking advantage of it.

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Well, to be honest... The fluent speakers who take a "Language B" had to learn that language at some point as well... So...

I totally get the point that getting that easy seven is unfair, but ... As they had to learn that language too (it didnt just fly to them), i believe that it is/was their choice.

Well, actually, being brought up bilingual, like many in my family were, means they don't have to work at it at all as it is just natural to them. It is a lot easier than learning it at an older age as well.

Taking into consideration that I was not brought up bilingual, I might be wrong, but this is my opinion:

In IB, we learn the language very similarly to how children learn language - language B is based on understanding and communication, much less on grammar. I am taking German HL together with SL class, and we do very little grammar exercises. My teacher said that we will have no grammar questions on our finals, and language is only a part of the essay grade. Sure, you have to know how to write decently, but in no way are you obliged to know the names of the tenses or even give an explanation on why you used it as long as it is correct. That being said, we are learning our language B the same way the bilingual students did in their youth.

Basically, we are doing the work that they have already done. Of course, having a parent speak to you in another language/having greater exposure to a second language (being brought up bilingual) makes it easier to pick up a language than learning it in school and at home with books/music/films, but then again, so does having a math teacher for a father, yet no one is complaining about those students taking math SL.

Furthermore, I suspect that fluent students had to put less effort to reach the level of knowledge (while learning it in their childhood) needed for 7 in HL language B than an average student, however I would assume that the effort they had to put into keeping both of their languages at a fluent level, especially when a bit older (languages are easy to forget if you don't use them daily) would be around the level an average student puts into HL language B.

Hmm see I get your point about you still have to learn the language whether as a child or an IB student. However, I still completely disagree. We are not learning the language like children do in their youth, and either way I also include students who lived in a country for like 4 years to be taking an easy way out. No, I don't think you can say that they can't do the language in IB, because they can. Students who speak a language fluently because of their parents or where they lived definitely had an easier time learning it.

And your example of the math teacher is not really very accurate as nearly all teachers I'm sure would not want to speak to their child in maths equations... but if you're talking about tutoring and stuff then yes I agree tutoring a child silly at a young age is wrong, simply because i really believe school should not be about competition (especially at a young age) and should be about learning. which takes me back to the language B problem, which is that I simply believe that any student who speaks a language fluently (but obviously not those who taught it to themselves and worked hard in school for it like some people I know) are definitely not getting the most out of their education and are even taking advantage of it.

The fluent students did have it easier, but from my experience we are learning it in a similar way. At least in my school, the teacher speaks to us in german, we read in german, watch german movies, and listen to german music... We are learning it by being in constant contact with it. For me that is similar to how I learned my mother language. Of course, a child learns faster, plus bilingual parents do provide a more intense language environment (hence, children that are bilingual had it easier). At least that is what is gathered from my IB language B experience, and what understood about the course.

As to my math example, here I am again talking from a personal experience. My father studied literature, and ever since I was little he tried to show me all the wonders of it - I was surround by it, not because of competition but because it is something he liked and wanted to share it with me. Today, I have less problems in A languages (I take two, both HL, although not brought up bilingual) when it comes to doing literature analysis. I feel that me being surrounded with it from a young age helped me. The same way, my friend's dad taught her math ever since she was little. Again, it was not about her being better at it than most, but it was his interest and he wanted to share it. As far as my observations go, children do inherit some interests/talents/knowledge from their parents and it makes them better some those subjects (have some advantage) although they do not have to wish to follow their footsteps and take the subject at HL. Are they being unfair? I don't think so.

Having a math teacher for a father may not be the same as being brought up bilingual, since you learn the language rather well and thus don't have to work for language B HL, while with a math teacher for a father you inherit the way of thinking/understanding math, making you work less (in some cases, NOT ALL!). However, I would compare it with what you said was your situation - living for some time in a foreign country where the language in question is spoken. It makes it easier, but I suppose you still have to work some.

Again, it is only my opinion :)

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Well, to be honest... The fluent speakers who take a "Language B" had to learn that language at some point as well... So...

I totally get the point that getting that easy seven is unfair, but ... As they had to learn that language too (it didnt just fly to them), i believe that it is/was their choice.

Well, actually, being brought up bilingual, like many in my family were, means they don't have to work at it at all as it is just natural to them. It is a lot easier than learning it at an older age as well.

Taking into consideration that I was not brought up bilingual, I might be wrong, but this is my opinion:

In IB, we learn the language very similarly to how children learn language - language B is based on understanding and communication, much less on grammar. I am taking German HL together with SL class, and we do very little grammar exercises. My teacher said that we will have no grammar questions on our finals, and language is only a part of the essay grade. Sure, you have to know how to write decently, but in no way are you obliged to know the names of the tenses or even give an explanation on why you used it as long as it is correct. That being said, we are learning our language B the same way the bilingual students did in their youth.

Basically, we are doing the work that they have already done. Of course, having a parent speak to you in another language/having greater exposure to a second language (being brought up bilingual) makes it easier to pick up a language than learning it in school and at home with books/music/films, but then again, so does having a math teacher for a father, yet no one is complaining about those students taking math SL.

Furthermore, I suspect that fluent students had to put less effort to reach the level of knowledge (while learning it in their childhood) needed for 7 in HL language B than an average student, however I would assume that the effort they had to put into keeping both of their languages at a fluent level, especially when a bit older (languages are easy to forget if you don't use them daily) would be around the level an average student puts into HL language B.

Hmm see I get your point about you still have to learn the language whether as a child or an IB student. However, I still completely disagree. We are not learning the language like children do in their youth, and either way I also include students who lived in a country for like 4 years to be taking an easy way out. No, I don't think you can say that they can't do the language in IB, because they can. Students who speak a language fluently because of their parents or where they lived definitely had an easier time learning it.

And your example of the math teacher is not really very accurate as nearly all teachers I'm sure would not want to speak to their child in maths equations... but if you're talking about tutoring and stuff then yes I agree tutoring a child silly at a young age is wrong, simply because i really believe school should not be about competition (especially at a young age) and should be about learning. which takes me back to the language B problem, which is that I simply believe that any student who speaks a language fluently (but obviously not those who taught it to themselves and worked hard in school for it like some people I know) are definitely not getting the most out of their education and are even taking advantage of it.

The fluent students did have it easier, but from my experience we are learning it in a similar way. At least in my school, the teacher speaks to us in german, we read in german, watch german movies, and listen to german music... We are learning it by being in constant contact with it. For me that is similar to how I learned my mother language. Of course, a child learns faster, plus bilingual parents do provide a more intense language environment (hence, children that are bilingual had it easier). At least that is what is gathered from my IB language B experience, and what understood about the course.

As to my math example, here I am again talking from a personal experience. My father studied literature, and ever since I was little he tried to show me all the wonders of it - I was surround by it, not because of competition but because it is something he liked and wanted to share it with me. Today, I have less problems in A languages (I take two, both HL, although not brought up bilingual) when it comes to doing literature analysis. I feel that me being surrounded with it from a young age helped me. The same way, my friend's dad taught her math ever since she was little. Again, it was not about her being better at it than most, but it was his interest and he wanted to share it. As far as my observations go, children do inherit some interests/talents/knowledge from their parents and it makes them better some those subjects (have some advantage) although they do not have to wish to follow their footsteps and take the subject at HL. Are they being unfair? I don't think so.

Having a math teacher for a father may not be the same as being brought up bilingual, since you learn the language rather well and thus don't have to work for language B HL, while with a math teacher for a father you inherit the way of thinking/understanding math, making you work less (in some cases, NOT ALL!). However, I would compare it with what you said was your situation - living for some time in a foreign country where the language in question is spoken. It makes it easier, but I suppose you still have to work some.

Again, it is only my opinion :)

Yeah its true what you inherit from your parents can often give you an advantage. But you can still improve in literature but with a language there's usually very little that will improve when you do language B if you're fluent. but i guess its all about opinion and thats where we differ :)

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Well, to be honest... The fluent speakers who take a "Language B" had to learn that language at some point as well... So...

I totally get the point that getting that easy seven is unfair, but ... As they had to learn that language too (it didnt just fly to them), i believe that it is/was their choice.

Well, actually, being brought up bilingual, like many in my family were, means they don't have to work at it at all as it is just natural to them. It is a lot easier than learning it at an older age as well.

Taking into consideration that I was not brought up bilingual, I might be wrong, but this is my opinion:

In IB, we learn the language very similarly to how children learn language - language B is based on understanding and communication, much less on grammar. I am taking German HL together with SL class, and we do very little grammar exercises. My teacher said that we will have no grammar questions on our finals, and language is only a part of the essay grade. Sure, you have to know how to write decently, but in no way are you obliged to know the names of the tenses or even give an explanation on why you used it as long as it is correct. That being said, we are learning our language B the same way the bilingual students did in their youth.

Basically, we are doing the work that they have already done. Of course, having a parent speak to you in another language/having greater exposure to a second language (being brought up bilingual) makes it easier to pick up a language than learning it in school and at home with books/music/films, but then again, so does having a math teacher for a father, yet no one is complaining about those students taking math SL.

Furthermore, I suspect that fluent students had to put less effort to reach the level of knowledge (while learning it in their childhood) needed for 7 in HL language B than an average student, however I would assume that the effort they had to put into keeping both of their languages at a fluent level, especially when a bit older (languages are easy to forget if you don't use them daily) would be around the level an average student puts into HL language B.

Hmm see I get your point about you still have to learn the language whether as a child or an IB student. However, I still completely disagree. We are not learning the language like children do in their youth, and either way I also include students who lived in a country for like 4 years to be taking an easy way out. No, I don't think you can say that they can't do the language in IB, because they can. Students who speak a language fluently because of their parents or where they lived definitely had an easier time learning it.

And your example of the math teacher is not really very accurate as nearly all teachers I'm sure would not want to speak to their child in maths equations... but if you're talking about tutoring and stuff then yes I agree tutoring a child silly at a young age is wrong, simply because i really believe school should not be about competition (especially at a young age) and should be about learning. which takes me back to the language B problem, which is that I simply believe that any student who speaks a language fluently (but obviously not those who taught it to themselves and worked hard in school for it like some people I know) are definitely not getting the most out of their education and are even taking advantage of it.

The fluent students did have it easier, but from my experience we are learning it in a similar way. At least in my school, the teacher speaks to us in german, we read in german, watch german movies, and listen to german music... We are learning it by being in constant contact with it. For me that is similar to how I learned my mother language. Of course, a child learns faster, plus bilingual parents do provide a more intense language environment (hence, children that are bilingual had it easier). At least that is what is gathered from my IB language B experience, and what understood about the course.

As to my math example, here I am again talking from a personal experience. My father studied literature, and ever since I was little he tried to show me all the wonders of it - I was surround by it, not because of competition but because it is something he liked and wanted to share it with me. Today, I have less problems in A languages (I take two, both HL, although not brought up bilingual) when it comes to doing literature analysis. I feel that me being surrounded with it from a young age helped me. The same way, my friend's dad taught her math ever since she was little. Again, it was not about her being better at it than most, but it was his interest and he wanted to share it. As far as my observations go, children do inherit some interests/talents/knowledge from their parents and it makes them better some those subjects (have some advantage) although they do not have to wish to follow their footsteps and take the subject at HL. Are they being unfair? I don't think so.

Having a math teacher for a father may not be the same as being brought up bilingual, since you learn the language rather well and thus don't have to work for language B HL, while with a math teacher for a father you inherit the way of thinking/understanding math, making you work less (in some cases, NOT ALL!). However, I would compare it with what you said was your situation - living for some time in a foreign country where the language in question is spoken. It makes it easier, but I suppose you still have to work some.

Again, it is only my opinion :)

Yeah its true what you inherit from your parents can often give you an advantage. But you can still improve in literature but with a language there's usually very little that will improve when you do language B if you're fluent. but i guess its all about opinion and thats where we differ :)

Sure, you do not improve, but we are talking about grades here, not necessarily one's improvement. From what I've understood, people are angry because those students get easy grades, not because they don't improve. And with what I have inherited from my dad (and my amazing primary school teacher), I do not have to work much for my literature class, aside from the tasks I get in school. Just as you have to do your homework, I assume. For now, my lang A grades are pretty easily gotten, just as yours. It all depends on how much one has inherited from their parents or past teachers, but some do inherit enough to have an easy grade in a subject and I don't think that should be looked down on.

On the other hand, I completely agree that a fluent student won't learn much in a language B course. But I think it is student's decision if he wants to approve or not. As I stated in one of my previous posts, I see language B as a mean to make IB students able to communicate in at least 2 languages. If the student is already able to do that, then the goal is achieved and I see no reason why the student shouldn't do those two languages: one at A level and one at B. If the said student is ambitious and wants to start another language instead of taking an easy way out, I salute him/her, but I do not judge the person who takes an easy way out only because I feel that the person in question has to achieve the same goals as me, and if she has done it earlier (learned two languages earlier, for example), then ok. As long as it is done fair and square, meaning no cheating (and in this case, the person has the needed knowledge, so there is no cheating involved), then I accept it. Others might envy the fluent students, but I don't think we should judge them. IB has strict tests: if you have the said knowledge, and get a fair grade, then I see no problem with how you have achieved it.

Edited by OldFashioned
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