Scandinavia: The most successful societies to see the face of earth

[stylusdef]

Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark... We're the most successful societies to ever see the face of earth.

Especially Sweden, imo, since we've always been neutral. ^^

[Abu]

Self gloat!

[QueenSara]

Of course, you're perfectly right!

[KjeAlb]

I don't think Finland is a part of Scandinavia... I thought it was more like Norway, Denmark and Sweden. =P

I don't know if we are the most successful, but we score pretty high on the UN HDI rankings, but that ranking only covers certain aspects in a society. Many would consider the best country, a country where the population are generally the happiest. I don't remember who scored at what point at that survey, but it wasn't Scandinavia =P

Though the part where you said Sweden has always been neutral reminds me of a Norwegian comedian who claimed that we would be idiots if we bought arms-supply from a neutral country (Norway was interested in buying Swedish military airplanes), and that we should instead buy them from USA, who have a long history of bombing countries to the ground x) (no offence though =P)

Edited December 3, 2008 by KjeAlb

[teresad]

Iceland is a part of Scandinavia as well

but then again there is only one IB school there

[Vvi]

Ok, maybe we should change the words "Scandinavian countries" to "Nordic countries". Coz then Finland's included. Although I don't understand why we're not included in Scandinavia and Iceland is, seeing as it's so far away (no offense). Maybe it goes according to language? Danish, Norwegian, Swedish and Icelandic are all related, whereas Finnish is in a world of it's own

[deissi]

Especially Sweden, imo, since we've always been neutral. ^^

Finland was allied with the Nazis in WWII, so we don't have a clean sheet like you guys. Geographical location gives you the ability of being neutral.

Iceland? Oh, the country that's practically bankrupt and now wants to join the EU and the Eurozone in order to be rescued?

Vvi, the language claim does not completely hold. Finland is constitutionally a bilingual country and Swedish has the same status as Finnish does. It is a minority language, though.

Btw, Finland is sometimes included in Scandinavia:

"Scandinavia is a historical and geographical region in northern Europe that includes the Scandinavian Peninsula. It consists of the kingdoms of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark; some authorities also include the nations of Finland and Iceland." -Wikipedia

[KjeAlb]

Finland was allied with the Nazis in WWII, so we don't have a clean sheet like you guys. Geographical location gives you the ability of being neutral.

Wasn't there a reason for that? I mean like joining the nazis? After what i can recall from general history classes you guys aided the nazis taking Russia because Russia had been trying to take Finland

[Alfabeta]

Though the part where you said Sweden has always been neutral reminds me of a Norwegian comedian who claimed that we would be idiots if we bought arms-supply from a neutral country (Norway was interested in buying Swedish military airplanes), and that we should instead buy them from USA, who have a long history of bombing countries to the ground x) (no offence though =P)

The neutral Sweeden is just a one big scam, They were neutral nazis, and the rest of Europe knows.... The sweeds would have fought the nazis if they still had some scandinavian blood in there body, and not sold steel to the Germany , so that they could strenghten their army.... petty they made no resistance

[deissi]

Wasn't there a reason for that? I mean like joining the nazis? After what i can recall from general history classes you guys aided the nazis taking Russia because Russia had been trying to take Finland

Seems like you slept the other half of the history class. Finland was a grand-duchy of the Russian Empire from 1808 to 1917, when it became independent. In 1939, Soviet Union attacked Finland, in what became known as the Winter War. (Soviet Union was expelled from the League of Nations because of this) After the Winter War, the Soviets still thought Finland was too close to Leningrad, and relationships were hostile between the two countries, i.e. another war was inevitable. Hitler had also promised Finland to Soviet Union in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, so Soviets saw themselves as having a right to own Finland. So what happened is that we fought a war against the Soviets, allied to the Nazis. Why the Nazis, you may ask. Who else was there to be allied with? Soviet Union wasn't a possibility, obviously, because they would've occupied Finland in that case. Thus, we had to ally with the Nazis. I do admit, Finnish military leaders became greedy after the successes in the beginning of the Continuation War (1941), so we not only reoccupied old Finnish territory but crossed the old border into Soviet Union in the war.

You may say I'm biased, which I probably am. Knowing Soviet Union, though, you'll probably know that they weren't the easiest neighbor to deal with at the time, especially in light of what happened in the Baltic states. Besides, any credible historian, Finnish, Russian or Indonesian will say that we didn't fight Soviet Union to retaliate.

[blindpet]

About the happiness thing: Denmark was ranked as the happiest a year or two ago by the international survey carried out by Kent I believe.

There was recently a debate about how capitalism has failed at my uni because of the credit crunch or w/etf you wanna call it. The only reason capitalism had not failed in the eyes of the voters was only because of the nordic countries. Because nordic countries prioritize welfare state over capitalist greed, there is still hope for capitalism as a whole. As soon as people remember the distinction between self-interest and selfishness, capitalism will regain the luster it deserves.

With regard to best society or where I'd prefer to live as both an EU and US citizen, I choose Denmark because the benefits are far greater than in the US. Denmark would always take care of me no matter what, US would hang me out to dry.

[avident]

I don't really believe in the Scandinavian system. ''Inequality'' - if that's what you want to call the same tax percent for everyone - generates more innovation and something for people to believe in. All the big dreamers move out of Scandinavia to realize their dreams. Even the CEO of Nokia, the only really big company in Finland, studied abroad.

But it's good that the world is versatile and people have different options of where to live.

[Vvi]

In Finnish there's a saying "Being born in Finland is like winning the lottery". Considering all the benefits I get from the state, even after being absent from the country from 15 years, I agree completely. I get a free college education,free medical and dental care care even in college, when I'm pregnant I'm entitled to free medical care as well, and childcare benefits. All children get free schooling. The benefits are endless. Go Social Democracy.

Beats the US in terms of how much the state gives back to you. I would rather pay 40% income tax in Finland rather than be left out in the cold on the streets when I don't have medical insurance. I would be just as happy to have been born in Sweden/Norway/Denmark/Iceland. The fact that those countries don't have huge populations and therefore the government has more money to spend on its people is common to all of them. And it's nice not being hated on for starting wars like America, or being discriminated against because you look like a terrorist.

People study abroad, and move back home later in lots of countries. Not that there's anything wrong with Scandinavian universities, Uppsala in Sweden and Helsinki University are ranked in the top 100 in the world. I've always considered moving back to Finland to live, even though I'm going abroad to study. And Finland is often ranked as the most or second most competitive market in Europe. So why would people have to move out to realize their "dreams" of being successful?

[Panserborne]

I don't really believe in the Scandinavian system. ''Inequality'' - if that's what you want to call the same tax percent for everyone - generates more innovation and something for people to believe in. All the big dreamers move out of Scandinavia to realize their dreams. Even the CEO of Nokia, the only really big company in Finland, studied abroad.

But it's good that the world is versatile and people have different options of where to live.

Ermm.... I'm pretty sure you see people moving out of Scandinavia not because of the equality and lack of poverty, but because it's a small place. There's nothing surprising or shocking about entrepreneurs wanting to move to the US or whatever. And I'm glad for you if you can fool yourself into thinking poverty can "generate more innovation and something for people to believe in". Whatever that means. Wherever you pulled that out of.

[QueenSara]

In Finnish there's a saying "Being born in Finland is like winning the lottery". Considering all the benefits I get from the state, even after being absent from the country from 15 years, I agree completely. I get a free college education,free medical and dental care care even in college, when I'm pregnant I'm entitled to free medical care as well, and childcare benefits. All children get free schooling. The benefits are endless. Go Social Democracy.

Beats the US in terms of how much the state gives back to you. I would rather pay 40% income tax in Finland rather than be left out in the cold on the streets when I don't have medical insurance. I would be just as happy to have been born in Sweden/Norway/Denmark/Iceland. The fact that those countries don't have huge populations and therefore the government has more money to spend on its people is common to all of them. And it's nice not being hated on for starting wars like America, or being discriminated against because you look like a terrorist.

People study abroad, and move back home later in lots of countries. Not that there's anything wrong with Scandinavian universities, Uppsala in Sweden and Helsinki University are ranked in the top 100 in the world. I've always considered moving back to Finland to live, even though I'm going abroad to study. And Finland is often ranked as the most or second most competitive market in Europe. So why would people have to move out to realize their "dreams" of being successful?

Well put, I completely agree with you.

[cocoa.puff]

Always loved Sweden!

[Vvi]

And what happened to the rest of the Scandinavian countries? We don't exist?

I've only had one person tell me that they had no idea where a country called Finland was. Which was a bad move on the guy's part, seeing as he was trying to convince me to go and have drinks with him. Low geographical knowledge is a turn-off. Someone else once tried to convince me that Finland is in the Mediterranean.

What's cool about all the Scandinavian countries' locations:

-Lots of snow, so we get to ski/sled/snowboard

-Reindeer (don't know why it's cool, but I like the animals)

-We get weird times of the year, with the sun not setting in summer and not rising in winter. Good conversation starters

-Lots of lakes and trees, unspiled nature (except for Russia's forest fires spreading smoke everywhere and England's acid rain destroying forests)

Bad stuff:

-Cold. -20 celsius is not fun.

-High rates of depression due to lack of sun in winter

-Short summer

-Cold sea to swim in

[bjornmys]

despite iceland's bankruptcy, according to a recent survey it's still one of the best places in the world to live in. beat that. plus iceland is not considered to be a part of Scandinavia, only norway, sweden and denmark are

[AkHyldmo]

Well, Norway has been said to be the best country in the world to live in several times and according to the Human development index ranking system Norway is number 1. http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/NOR.html (Not trying to brag)

On the other hand, Norway would most likely not be such a successful country if it had not been for all the oil that we have. I think we would have been among the poorer countries in Europe without the oil.

[Sammie Backman]

Scandinavia sucks