General IB Knowledge - Ask mini-questions about IB here

[jjmack]

Sandwich,

Thanks a lot for the explanation. Glad it is summer and people have time to explain stuff. I am definitely getting the boundary thing, just curious what percent of people you have to beat out to get a 6? or 7? Haven't been able to find that. But I will more likely be trying to beat the 2s than beat the 6s.

I really don't know if I am IB material. I got got 85% average in gr 7, but had too much fun this year and it dropped to 80%.

I am sure that is mediocre in IBWorld.

I do have a wickedly good memory, but don't read that much, so the reading might kill me. Plus I have crazed father with like 4 masters degrees who "tutors" (tortures) me a lot.

I don't want all the work of IB, but parents are trying to tell me to look at the long term... but easy for them to say.

Im glad people are answring my questions.

jj

[master135]

In IB the level that you get (between 1 and 7) depends on how other people around the world do. For example in 2008 if the Math SL is really easy and a lot of people get high marks, then the raw mark you need to get in order to get level 7 will be around 85%. However, if in 2009, the same math SL exam is hard, then in order to get 7, the raw percentage mark may be around 75%. Once you get that level 7, it gets converted to a mark that Canadian universities can recognize, which can range between 96%-100%. IB does not recognize percentages but in order for some canadian universities to understand your mark, your mark need to get converted from an IB level to a percentage.

Godofib. Thanks for the explanation. i think i get it. So your IB mark of 1-7 doesn't really have to do with how many questions you get right on the exam, but how many you got right compared to everyone else in the world?

Does that mean that there are a set percentage of people in the world getting a 7? What is that percentage? 2%? 5%? I didn't realize that IB used a crazy percentile system.

Is there some way of finding out the percentage of IB people who get a 7? or a 6? or a 5?

I guess that means that IB sets the average. What is the world average for a course? Is it same for all courses?

I know I am pretty dumb but these questions are really helping me out.

I was feeling better about IB till a read message post somewhere from an IB'er that said: "I'd kill myself but I don't have time."

So now I am worried again.

Hey I see you are from Canada - mind telling me which school? Well I think IB REALLY helped many kids due to the conversion sytem in Canada. You shoudn't be that worried about the difficulty. Infact some courses in IB (such as Math SL and Phy SL) tend to be slightly easier to score well in than the regular curriculum. Overall the workload may be heavy…but there are many benefits.

As for your questions – IB publishes the world averages and the % of students getting a 7 each year in things called ‘Statistical Bulletins’. They don’t try to set a definite world average themselves (they try to keep it between 3-5 though) usually and the number of 7s varies greatly from course to course – for example economics is usually has about a 13% rate of 7s while ITGS has less than 5%.

[jjmack]

As for your questions – IB publishes the world averages and the % of students getting a 7 each year in things called ‘Statistical Bulletins’. They don’t try to set a definite world average themselves (they try to keep it between 3-5 though) usually and the number of 7s varies greatly from course to course – for example economics is usually has about a 13% rate of 7s while ITGS has less than 5%.

Thanks Master123.

It was a pain in the neck but found the bulletin you suggested. It is for June 2009 but I think N08 results. I was pretty suprised. That is if I am reading right. Here is what I think it says.

Math HL 15% got a 7

Math SL 14% got a 7

Physics HL 26% got a 7

Physics SL 21% got a 7

Biology it was 12% (HL) and 2% (SL) who got a 7

Economics it was 28% (HL) and 22% (SL) who got a 7

Why do the top 22% of Economics SL students get a 7 but only top 2% of Biology SL students get a 7?

But in M08...

Economics it was 13% (HL) and 12% (SL) who got a 7

Why do twice as many people get a 7 in N08 compared to M08?

Anyway my brain hurts... but it doesn't seem faor and still don't know how they work it.

[sweetnsimple786]

As for your questions – IB publishes the world averages and the % of students getting a 7 each year in things called 'Statistical Bulletins'. They don't try to set a definite world average themselves (they try to keep it between 3-5 though) usually and the number of 7s varies greatly from course to course – for example economics is usually has about a 13% rate of 7s while ITGS has less than 5%.

Why do the top 22% of Economics SL students get a 7 but only top 2% of Biology SL students get a 7?

But in M08...

Economics it was 13% (HL) and 12% (SL) who got a 7

Why do twice as many people get a 7 in N08 compared to M08?

Anyway my brain hurts... but it doesn't seem faor and still don't know how they work it.

If those stats are right, then here's what seems logical to me--

The tests are different. Everyone has to take a Group 3 subject [which Econ is] and a Group 4 subject [which bio is]

Most likely, if you're taking Econ, you're more interested in it than you are the other group 3 courses like history, business and management, etc.

If you're taking Bio, you're choosing between Bio, Chem, Physics, Environmental Systems, or Design Technology. Often, people just pick bio because they think it's easier and then don't study.

However I don't think you can accurately compare Econ SL with Bio SL because they're completely different! There are soo many factors at play here.

As for Nov08 versus May08, who knows? Maybe the students as a whole were more motivated? Were luckier? Maybe a good portion of the students in the May session had a massive migrane! Also, when IB schedules exams, they set 2 or 3 exams for the same day. Now if you have to take hard exams back to back, you won't do as well.

It's all speculation! Don't worry about the numbers too much! Pick what you're interested in and what you're good at.

[Redstar]

As for your questions – IB publishes the world averages and the % of students getting a 7 each year in things called ‘Statistical Bulletins’. They don’t try to set a definite world average themselves (they try to keep it between 3-5 though) usually and the number of 7s varies greatly from course to course – for example economics is usually has about a 13% rate of 7s while ITGS has less than 5%.

Thanks Master123.

It was a pain in the neck but found the bulletin you suggested. It is for June 2009 but I think N08 results. I was pretty suprised. That is if I am reading right. Here is what I think it says.

[...]

Economics it was 28% (HL) and 22% (SL) who got a 7

[...]

But in M08...

Economics it was 13% (HL) and 12% (SL) who got a 7

Why do twice as many people get a 7 in N08 compared to M08?

Anyway my brain hurts... but it doesn't seem faor and still don't know how they work it.

Well, I found the statistical bulletins for N08 and M08 and I just want to point out one confusion in your post: you inverted the statistics for Economics in N08, as in HL was actually 22% and SL was 28%.

Anyways, coming from a school that takes examinations in November, we've been told about this difference in percentages by some teachers when talking about these statistics. Of course, at first glance, the difference in percentages seems very strange and even unfair. But you have to realize that this is twice the percentage, not twice the amount of people. To realize why they have to do this, you just have to look at the total amount of people taking the exams.

In May 08, 5,971 people took the Economics HL exam. Whereas in November 08, you only had 994 people. Now, 13% of 5,971 people in M08 was 776, and in November, 22% was 218 people.

But then again, one can also think that to keep things fair, both May and November SHOULD have the same percentage of 7s in all courses. But then, you reach some problems in other courses. For example, look at Computer Science HL. In May 08, you have 394 students and 13% got 7s, which would be 51 students. However... In November 08 you only have 23 students taking the course. If they were forced to only have 13% with 7s then only 3 students in the entire southern hemisphere would have 7s. This would mean that other than me and a friend of mine who got a 7, only one more person in the rest of the world would be allowed to get a 7. Only 3 people in an entire session? That seems harsh. Especially if other people have actually received enough marks to also get a 7, but the limitation of 13% means that not all of them can get the same grade. So, both sessions using the same percentages of 7s leads to this problem, mainly because of the drastically less amount of people taking exams in November than in May.

Now, there's a last factor that must be considered: the grade boundaries. All that follows is what I personally speculate.

Let's go back to Economics HL. In M08 the grade boundary for a 7 was 71%. In N08, the grade boundary for a 7 was 76%. So, had N08 used the same grade boundary as M08 (71%), then the percentage of 7s would have been even greater than 22! So, to reduce this percentage (thus to get it closer to the M08 percentage to keep things fairer) the grade boundary has to be raised. But there's only so far you can raise a boundary without being unfair to those in N08. Would it be fair to raise the boundary all the way up to 85% just to keep the percentage of 7s at 13% for N08, while those in M08 could get a 7 with a 71%?

According to the statistics you gave, it just seems that a much larger proportion of N08 students got the required amount of marks to get a 7 than in M08, but it would be unfair to those in N08 to raise the grade boundaries EXTREMELY high just to maintain an equal percentage as that of May. The grade boundary can be raised a bit to take into account things such as, if by any chance, the exam was easier in November. But after a point, you can't keep on raising the boundary to lower the percentage of 7s. If all those students earned their 7, they have a right to get it. This does not mean that you are more probable to get a 7 in November exams.

Ok, I'm sorry if I may have overexplained some things, or probably just confused you more. But, to sum up: Yes, many subjects in November 08 have a higher percentage of 7s than in May 08, but this isn't due to unfairness. Grade boundaries are adjusted accordingly to raise or reduce the percentages of 7s, but there's only so far you can adjust a grade boundary without being too unfair to those who actually earned enough marks to get a 7. So, if at a boundary of 76% you still have 22% of Economics students with 7s, then so be it. Those 22% of students got enough marks to earn their 7, despite an increase in grade boundary that was applied to take into account any differences in the exams. It's not that its more probable to get a 7 in November. Don't worry, the exams are still fair.

I hope this helped.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Redstar

[jjmack]

but there's only so far you can adjust a grade boundary without being too unfair to those who actually earned enough marks to get a 7.

Redstar,

Yes it helped a lot. But this sentence seems like reasoning in a circle. It seems like in IB no one "earns" a 7, except in relation to others taking the exam at the same time. So it doesn't seem right to say that anyone "actually earned enough marks" to get a 7, because the raw marks only are supposed to matter compared to other raw marks.

But you make also lot of sense. If there are small numbers, then comparisons don't work. If only 10 people in the world were taking a subject, and they all got 95%, then what can you do, except give everyone a 7.

No system is perfect, and it is hard with smallers numbers taking a course to spread the marks out... so yea... I finally get it.

I hope there are a lot of really dumb IB students in my year, because that is only way I will get a 7.

Thanks Redstar

[Ruan Chun Xian]

This sums up the IB marking system.

[sweetnsimple786]

What's the mean then? because for every 45 there must be a ___

[moneyfaery]

If 15% of students received a 7 in Math HL this year, I will be very sad.

[Terry]

Hi, I aim to start IB in a year, and I have a few mini-questions that I hope someone could answer (and give me some peace of mind).

1. In my country, I graduated from "high school" with a 5.7 score out of 6.. While I am confident that I'd be able to do at least "okay", I am a bit worried about the math. It has never been something I've been able to completely feel at ease with, and my graduating grade was a C. I did manage a B on my written math exam, but I think that despite the effort I put in the week before, the exam was much easier than the one given in previous years. So I wonder, how hard is really Math Studies (the easiest, I believe)?

2. For CAS, could one do stuff like go for a hike and take pictures on the trip, watch a movie, give blood and play soccer? Because I have read an alarming amount of posts where people went to Africa and built an orphanage and almost ended hunger.

3. On a diploma, do you get a grade in CAS, or just a summation of hours spent on different activities?

4. At the school I plan to attend, I got the impression that there were extremely few lectures and a lot of "self studies". Is that common?

[Eyas]

My theory about setting mark boundaries is that the IBO uses the total expected grades to get percentages of those who "should" get a 7, 6, 5, .. etc. and try to keep numbers close. This way, if 10% are predicted to be able to get 7s, about 10% will have the ability to get a 7.. not necesserily the same people though; a predicted 6 might do better than a predicted 7 student and "get his spot".

The only reason I come to such conclusion (as opposed to a "curve") is that certain subjects have 100% of their students with 7s (when its a low number like ~10 studnets), and it only seems logical that the IBO uses teacher feedback in the form of predicted grades or others to determine how marks should be distributed (that is, according to how students' abilities are distributed, as judged by their teachers). Thoughts? Way off?

[deissi]

1. In my country, I graduated from "high school" with a 5.7 score out of 6.. While I am confident that I'd be able to do at least "okay", I am a bit worried about the math. It has never been something I've been able to completely feel at ease with, and my graduating grade was a C. I did manage a B on my written math exam, but I think that despite the effort I put in the week before, the exam was much easier than the one given in previous years. So I wonder, how hard is really Math Studies (the easiest, I believe)?

Math Studies is very easy. You'll do fine, even if you're not very good in math. If you're willing to put a bit of effort into it, a 7 with your history is not too hard to reach.

2. For CAS, could one do stuff like go for a hike and take pictures on the trip, watch a movie, give blood and play soccer? Because I have read an alarming amount of posts where people went to Africa and built an orphanage and almost ended hunger.

Not watch a movie, unless it's something to do with learning a language. All the others are ok, except you need to be 18 to donate blood, I believe. CAS doesn't have to be anything special; I did photography, dancing, indoor sports and helped the school in various ways.

3. On a diploma, do you get a grade in CAS, or just a summation of hours spent on different activities?

Just a summation of hours.

4. At the school I plan to attend, I got the impression that there were extremely few lectures and a lot of "self studies". Is that common?

No. In fact, the IB has set a minimum for the hours that the school must teach; for HL subjects this is 240 hours per subject if I remember correctly. For SL subjects it's 180 hours, I think.

My theory about setting mark boundaries is that the IBO uses the total expected grades to get percentages of those who "should" get a 7, 6, 5, .. etc. and try to keep numbers close. This way, if 10% are predicted to be able to get 7s, about 10% will have the ability to get a 7.. not necesserily the same people though; a predicted 6 might do better than a predicted 7 student and "get his spot".

The only reason I come to such conclusion (as opposed to a "curve") is that certain subjects have 100% of their students with 7s (when its a low number like ~10 studnets), and it only seems logical that the IBO uses teacher feedback in the form of predicted grades or others to determine how marks should be distributed (that is, according to how students' abilities are distributed, as judged by their teachers). Thoughts? Way off?

Not much point in speculating after you read IB Diploma Assessment: Rules and Regulations, available here on IBS. http://www.ibsurvival.com/index.php?app=downloads&showcat=70 . It's the one called IB Assessment Guide.

[Referos]

Sorry if this was already asked before, but: can I take a subject at SL and later do the retake at HL, as long as I don't end with 5 HLs? For instance, let's suppose I get a 7 in Physics SL. Then, when applying to universities, I discover that I need Physics HL. Can I retake Physics at HL, and if I get a 7 in the retake, does my Physics SL get "upgraded" to HL? This assuming I've taken only 3 HLs, so that I would end with 4 HLs, which is still allowed.

[Sandwich]

I believe so, Referos. At the least, there shouldn't be a problem! Actually, I'm not even sure if it'd count as a retake given that they're different exams.

[The Economist]

Do you get higher predicted grades than your regular ones?

I mean do teachers give you better predicted grades?

[Peachez]

Do you get higher predicted grades than your regular ones?

I mean do teachers give you better predicted grades?

In my experience, teachers are scared of giving high grades to students because if the students do not do very well on the final exam, then they would have to go through something extra with the IB which gives them more work to dd. Some of my teachers said that they do not give 7s to anybody because of this. So basically they do not give better predicted grades.

[Sandwich]

As Nataliya said, it really depends on your teachers. Some of mine inflated my grades up or down one dependent on 'general aptitude'! The most annoying one was my Chem teacher who proclaimed that 7s couldn't be managed, despite the fact I'd been on one the whole time, and refused to give anybody a 7.

Usually, though, if you argue it through with them that you need the overprediction, or at least a prediction based on your present grades, in order to get into University, get down on your hands and knees and promise eternal dedication and revision, they relent. Honestly, at the end of the day, I'm not sure predicted grades even mean anything!

[~Lc~]

This sums up the IB marking system.

haha normal distribution?

our Islamic History IA grades resembled that

[Tiara Angel]

Do you get higher predicted grades than your regular ones?

I mean do teachers give you better predicted grades?

Well actually, it typically depends on the teacher. However, it is common practice that teachers tend to be harsh on grading so that you don't feel demoralised when you get your final grades. Say you were predicted a 7 for Math, then you got a 5 as your final result. How would that feel? However, on the other hand, some teachers are lenient with marking and they give you higher grades. Hope that answers your question.

[sweetnsimple786]

My Spanish teacher refused to give anyone a 7. Even the flawless natives. She said it just tempted the moderators to bring the scores down. She always gave us slightly lower scores and said they were almost always moderated up. But then again, IB marks don't really affect my grades in Spanish class. Almost everyone had a 90+ unless they just didn't do the work.