Arabs..muslims?

[Daedalus]

I lived for two years in Malaysia, which is predominantly Muslim. I've found a lot to admire in people of Arab birth, have some friends that come from the Middle East, and generally I don't have any prejudices based on people's race, class or origins. Once I also visited a Muslim mosque and a Hindu shrine on the same day. I was impressed at the cleanliness and quiet stillness of the former, and conversely a bit shocked at how poorly kept the latter was.

On the other hand I do have certain problems with the Muslim faith. For example, in Malaysia (to the best of my knowledge), if you are born as a Muslim you are not allowed to change your religion. You cannot marry a non-muslim, so if you are in love, the other person must convert. I don't appreciate this - I think that for any faith, you should be allowed to enter/quit whenever you want. Anything that is compulsory is distasteful to me, and some of the tenets of the Muslim faith are legally enforced in Malaysia (though I cannot speak for other countries).

I also find it a little disturbing that the Muslim faith has been used as a vehicle for terrorism. I don't judge Muslims based on this, but at the same time, it scares me. I have similar problems with the Catholic faith... for example, the trust given freely to priests has been abused so many times over that it confuses me why people would still be prepared to give it.

I'm agnostic but I respect and, I like to believe, understand people's beliefs to some extent. One of my best friends believes in an ulterior spirit or force, but he doesn't feel the need to label it with a capital letter nor to adhere to the guidelines for worshiping it that were, he believes created by humans, not a god.

I also believe that when a religion condones any sort of differentiation between genders (both Christianity and Islam do) then there is something wrong. In the past males were considered superior and more pure, and 'original sin' is considered to be Eve's fault (I think? I'm really uneducated when it comes to this, sorry) but I think this belief is outdated. It bothers me that female believers in Islam must wear heavy cloth to hide their bodies. From what I have heard, this is considered to be for their own good, to prevent lecherous men from being aroused, but again it seems to me illogical to punish the women for the faults of men. And having multiple wives is not wrong, as far as I'm concerned, but only so long as having multiple husbands is equally permissible. As far as I know, it is not.

And also it was a bit uncomfortable waking up at 5 am every day to the sound of the prayers on loudspeakers... but then again, I voluntarily went to that country, and it's part of the culture...

Also another thing is the Hajj, which I guess has been mentioned here before, but it seems to me problematic that people can't practice the obligations of their faith without risking injury and even death.

Overall my impression of the Arab people is that they are just members of the Homo Sapiens race, like me or you. As for the Muslim religion I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but I think it has brought a lot of good into areas of the world where law and order were not well enforced at all. I don't attach terrorist stigma to any Muslim I meet.

[Mahuta ♥]

we don't have to wear 'heavy clothes', lol, I wear 'hijab' yet I wear perfectly normal, and anything I want as long as I cover my body and not wear extremely tight clothes.

Hijab is not to prevent the men from getting aroused at the sight of a woman(something which happens like...every second of everyday now), it's to protect the women from being harrassed by men, it's just that Islam doesn't see a reason as to why a woman would show off her body and stuff to all the guys, it just minimizes the value of a woman (I couldn't find a good expression..so I used value, lol). Islam sees that it's better if a woman doesn't let go of her her beauty to anyone, but rather protect it until the right guy comes.

When we try to explain it, we say take a piece of wrapped candy. A man(father) gave it to me.. I open it, and just look at it..put it back in the wrapper and pass it on..the other person opens it..tastes it..wraps it up again and passes it on..and so on, until it get to person X.

Person X would have got a brand new clean untouched candy if it was passed on directly from the father to X, this is how we see it, and I believe in that.

Hajj: they are improving facilities every year, the injuries and deaths are not something that supposed to happen, nor is hajj an obligation, if you can you go, if it's beyond your medical, financial, social abilities, then you should NOT go.

Islam never blames Eve for anything, and women are not treated as though they are less superior than men. If that was so, then women wouldn't be allowed to go out on their own, have opinions, take decisions go to school, get any job a man could get..etc..etc. I was born a muslim and I have never felt any sort of differentiation. It really depends on the family, my father doesn't believe in extreme islam like we see on tv, I am living in Tunisia without my parents and on my own, something extremist would completely disagree with.

There is absolutely nothing common between Islam and Terrorism, the so called 'terrorist' are not considered muslims, because they are killing innocent people, and in Islam killing innocent people on purpose is one of the biggest sins ever.

[Daedalus]

we don't have to wear 'heavy clothes', lol, I wear 'hijab' yet I wear perfectly normal, and anything I want as long as I cover my body and not wear extremely tight clothes.

Hijab is not to prevent the men from getting aroused at the sight of a woman(something which happens like...every second of everyday now), it's to protect the women from being harrassed by men, it's just that Islam doesn't see a reason as to why a woman would show off her body and stuff to all the guys, it just minimizes the value of a woman (I couldn't find a good expression..so I used value, lol). Islam sees that it's better if a woman doesn't let go of her her beauty to anyone, but rather protect it until the right guy comes.

When we try to explain it, we say take a piece of wrapped candy. A man(father) gave it to me.. I open it, and just look at it..put it back in the wrapper and pass it on..the other person opens it..tastes it..wraps it up again and passes it on..and so on, until it get to person X.

Person X would have got a brand new clean untouched candy if it was passed on directly from the father to X, this is how we see it, and I believe in that.

Hajj: they are improving facilities every year, the injuries and deaths are not something that supposed to happen, nor is hajj an obligation, if you can you go, if it's beyond your medical, financial, social abilities, then you should NOT go.

Islam never blames Eve for anything, and women are not treated as though they are less superior than men. If that was so, then women wouldn't be allowed to go out on their own, have opinions, take decisions go to school, get any job a man could get..etc..etc. I was born a muslim and I have never felt any sort of differentiation. It really depends on the family, my father doesn't believe in extreme islam like we see on tv, I am living in Tunisia without my parents and on my own, something extremist would completely disagree with.

There is absolutely nothing common between Islam and Terrorism, the so called 'terrorist' are not considered muslims, because they are killing innocent people, and in Islam killing innocent people on purpose is one of the biggest sins ever.

This is an interesting reply... you seem to be taking everything I said quite seriously, as if it was a personal offence. That is not how I meant it at all, I was simply giving my personal and honest opinion on the question. You take specific examples and refute them but the issues you can't address you simply ignore, which I feel is not a valid strategy if this is an argument, which it was not really meant to be.

I'm aware of the fact that not all Muslim families are a certain way, and also that some of the points I made were unjust generalizations, but at the same time I hope you will agree that there is a certain 'type' of person, who claims - whether righteously or not - to be Islamic, that does believe in and enforce the inferiority of women. And again, to say that there is no connection between Islam and Terrorism is a blatant lie because, whether or not Muslims consider the extremists part of their faith, the extremists consider themselves Muslims. If I said I was a Christian and killed somebody that would not cease to make me a Christian, right? Even though I was not following the 'rules' of the faith? I am sure that the extremists believe that the good they are doing outweighs the evil, and it saddens me that they use an ancient faith to justify their murder. But at the same time to deny this connection completely is just incorrect.

Also, it's interesting that you find that wearing a t-shirt and jeans demeans or devalues a woman. I think considering her to be like a candy (which is 'tasted' when you catch sight of it??) is demeaning, especially since there is no such stigma attached to men. Are men then not candies, who should save their bodies for the right woman? Also, you say that the absence of the hijab is equivalent to flaunting your body, but showing your wrist or exposing your hair doesn't seem to me to be so. But again this is a cultural barrier, because we have completely different concepts on this topic, I guess.

[Mahuta ♥]

No, I did not take your post serious, lol. I am open to arguments, and I have not addressed certain issues, not because I cannot address them, but because I see your point in them, and pretty much agree with you.

I have not made any statements saying a woman wearing t-shirt is devalued, I was just stating the whole what the islam says. So I really wouldn't like you making such statement as though I said them, because that would make me a close-minded person. If I thought women who wear t-shirts are devalued I would not have friends of that kind, which is not true, I am friends with all kind of people. I just stick to my beliefs without going around telling girls who don't cover up, you are devalued..you are worthless..etc..etc.

I am not a religious person that you could ask why men don't have such rules applied on them, my limited knowledge in the sharia'a doesn't not yet allow me to explain such things without going wrong, so if you really want to know that, you should ask a religious person in Malaysia.

I still think that there's nothing in common between Islam and terrorism, and your example of 'killing' someone doesn't make you not christian is invalid. We're not talking about simple murder, I was talking about suicide bombs and thinking that bombing yourself in the middle of a crowd is something that pleases God and will get them in heaven. I am saying this is the general thinking of what the 'terrorist' go by, and it has got NOTHING to do with what Islam says. Saying extremist does not mean the extreme existing rule of Islam, in which case this would involve Islam. When I say extremist, I mean taking a rule in Islam that has got nothing to do with terrorism and changing the perspective so that it does with the terrorist's way of thinking. There is no muslim (that is not extremist and takes the rules as they are) agrees with any part of terrorism. In fact, Islam does NOT approve even killing innocent people anywhere anytime be it Israel, which extremist think they have the right to do anything there, or not.

Extremists do not think the good outweighs the evil. They think it's all good, they don't see anything evil in that!

[Seif Salama]

Hello everyone, I am an Egyptian Muslim doing the IB program in AIS-Egypt, i would just like to point out that (even though someone else might have pointed this out already) not all Muslims are terrorists, and that the religion of Islam does NOT support terrorism, in fact, it discourages it. It is strictly against the Islamic religion to kill people with no true and justified reason. I have Jewish friends and i act normally towards them, the only issue is the ignorance of other people towards the Islamic religion, mostly Americans, who think Islam = Terrorism. I Encourage you all to watch a movie called "My Name is Khan", it will help my point.

"Besm Allah el rahman el raheem,

Say O ye that reject Faith!

I worship not that which ye worship,

Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

To you be your Way, and to me mine."Surah 109 from the Holy Quran

[IrishGuy]

Well I'll start by saying that I'm an Irish Catholic who has never lived in an Arabic country in my life. ( Although I did live in Belgium and there are a lot of Moroccan Muslims living there) I find Islam very interesting and would love to learn about it properly. I find it interesting that it is so different from Catholicism in that it is far more regimented. I also recently have started to find the Arabic language really interesting. My Grandfather taught in a school in Iraq after the Second World War so i was brought up on stories from the middle east with tornadoes in the deserts and scorpions etc.. Which is quite exotic for a european boy. And recently I moved to Australia and whenever we fly back to Europe we fly Etihad. This sparked my interest again I have been learning progressively more and more through friends and reading. I am appalled when i hear people saying things like " they're all f***ing terrorists" ( which seems to happen a lot in Australia) or claiming that the hi-jab is a breach of women's rights. I point them to the nearest nunnery and ask them if they think that their clothes too are against immoral?

So I guess on the whole I find the Middle-East fascinating and am always shocked by the racist (and ignorant) opinions people seem to have of it today.

[MaryamB]

I am a an Algerian muslim and proud.

I think the media had given the world out there the wrong impression of muslims. Especially after the 9/11.

Not all muslims are terrorists, and we wont kill you if u were in a plane with us

we are normal people like you who seem to carry on with their lives until YOU guys come and take in the worng impression of us. Just beacause most muslim women cover or wear the 'hijab' and the men wear the kandura doesnt make us any different from you guys other than the fact that we follow our relegious views and are obeying what Allah (god) has asked us to do.

I am not Saying, we are all perfect. I know and understand that there is good evil in every relegion, race, country or whatever. I am just saying that most of you out there got the wrong impression of muslims. I hope you all now understand.

[Mahuta ♥]

I point them to the nearest nunnery and ask them if they think that their clothes too are against immoral?

That's what I did a few times until I was once told "who cares about them?! they're just a bunch of weirdos"...then I realized the reason western Christians don't compare Hijab to Nunnery's clothes is that they are not proper christians, as in, they do not believe in anything, church and nunneries dont mean anything to them. So I decided to stick to my beliefs, because females like the prophet's wives means a lot to us, and we give them a lot of respect till this day. Oh and I should include that Mary, is just as important to us as the prophet (PBUH)'s wives.

[IB_sucks]

lol...thanks for saying that..i was waiting for someone to say it...

again..believe it or not...this is misunderstood as-well...because talking interms of religion.....Islam says nothing about treating a woman the way they treat their wives...which explains why not ALL arabs treat their wives like that..its mostly in countries like KSA...and bahrain and stuff....where they totally mistake the things said in the quran about the man being reponsible for the woman as "we have to beat them up...we have to not allow them any freedom..etc...etc"

the thing is..im a muslim..im a tunisian...we dont have such things as treating the women badly...and i see it myself...and i see the HUGE difference between what certain people do to their wives and what's actually said about treaing the wives in the quran

and believe it or not..this is in some way a conflict within the arabs themselves...and its giving a very bad impression...just like im seeing now..on arabs and muslims...as as im concerned....our prophet does say..and did say until the last breath..to be gentle with women...and he said it three times...and he ensured along witht he prayer..showing its importance...im not offended or any thing mr.shiver....im just stating a fact...that "treating women better" should be directly said to SOME arab extremists..that take everything in the wrong way..and yes..in that case...i do agree 100%...but to have that idea about all arabs..is sort of...stereotyping...becasue im an arab...a muslim..and i dont see any of that "bad treatement" done to me..hence..im right here doing whatever i want..... or any other women in my family..and in fact in my country along with ALL the women i've ever met in my life...except for the KSA....

yeah...well infortunatly.....its all about the media...

as i just said to mr.shiver...all what's being generalized about the way women are being treated in the arab and muslim world is stereotyping....and i explained why...

Haj...ok...there's a reason why haj is meant to be on those who are able to cope with it ONLY...not those who are barely walking...or those who are clusterphobic.....

but yeah...i see your point....although if you followed the news in the last HAJ.....things are getting wya better becasue of the facilities provided by the KSA government.....

you see...how i see it is that some people jsut take whats said in the quran in the totally wrong way...and in some cases they read half of the verse for example..then make a decision...like for example..when it says about HAJ..it says RIGHT after it..."only for those who are able"...able being...able financially...and physically......

but oh well...its all because of media...forcing the audience to adopt acertain opinion without showing the full story....typicale...everywhere...lol

and about being scared..i guess you have the right to be scared....since the media just forces you to be scared...but if you're like more concerned in a way because of the 9/11 incidents....i would personally re consider...because they're proving..the americans themselves...that maybe it wasnt really the arabs who did it.....and that probably the government has got something to do with it?

but anyhow...thats another topic... ....if you got anything else...please feel free to ask me:D...oh..and im a normal arab and muslim..just incase you're afraid of me or something:P;)

it is definatly a change in perception....i mean you see...the sad thing is...the media actually got everyone to see the traditional clothes..to be seen as a sign that this person is most likely to be a terrorist.....and its sooo wrong....i mean men have been wearing the traditional dress in some areas for ages..and they never did anything like that..

people nowadays compare any guy they see to Osama bin Laden..and think.."oh...he must be like Bin laden"...and its like.."huh?!"

It all depends on appearances. Would you ever see a happy looking person as a terrorist about to bomb a plane? It's always the sombre, possibly worried, looking person that's to look out for.

Pre 9/11, we weren't aware of such security issues and problems. These days, with 9/11, 7/7, the Mumbai attacks, and the countless other terrorist related activities across the world, we have to look out for any potential trouble.

to some extent i do agree...and i am against those extremists doing such things...because it reflects what the islam says in the completely opposite way....for example..islam forbids killing innocent people..forbids killing kids..women...elderies...etc....just says..IF they attacked you...attack them back to the same extent they did if not less...in another words....if they shot someone innocent....dont go shooting someone innocent from them...whereas..if it was a thing between soldiers..then do it to the same extent....

but what THEY're doing now..and did..is like...the totaly opposite....this includes suicide-bombers....because..1st of all they're commiting suicide....which is forbidden...2nd of all...they're killing innocent people

Hey Mahuta. I agree with everything you say. people should generalize so much.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Mahuta ♥
There are more decent phrases to saying that, and stop looking at archives and making impressions.

[pomoni]

I have skimmed through most of the posts in this thread, and there's a point I would like to raise.

I have once read in the bible that women are also to cover themselves. So it's part of the Christian religion too. So I don't really get the big fuss that is being made about women having to cover themselves... it's part of the Muslim and the Christian religion (but as far as I know, it's not being followed much by Christians) and that's it. Why the big deal?

[Mahuta ♥]

Hmm, seems like you're looking at something I wrote like a year ago!

Why isn't the whole thing in quotes? It confused me a little!

It seemed like you typed the whole thing, whereas all you said was "Hey Mahuta. I agree with everything you say. people should generalize so much."

[sweetnsimple786]

I have skimmed through most of the posts in this thread, and there's a point I would like to raise.

I have once read in the bible that women are also to cover themselves. So it's part of the Christian religion too. So I don't really get the big fuss that is being made about women having to cover themselves... it's part of the Muslim and the Christian religion (but as far as I know, it's not being followed much by Christians) and that's it. Why the big deal?

You know, I'm not completely sure.

In many situations, the woman chooses to cover herself to X degree. In other situations, she doesn't have the choice. I think the latter gets the press and riles people up.

There are different interpretations of the Quran, right? So what's modest and what's not is not absolute. So on one side, you have people who are outraged that some governments require the hijab and that the women don't have a choice. On the other side, from what little I understand, some Muslims see the rapid moderization going on and how it can lead to vices and are freaked out and want to back up a bit, and they feel that the hijab is part of tradition and the right thing. I used hijab as a specific-ish example, but it's not the only thing. And clothing is just one part of the larger issue . I really think it's because people are scared. The government wants some control, for sure. But the general population's sentiments are more important. I hope my post doesn't cause someone a heart attack ahah. That's just how I see things as a Muslim in the US.

[IrishGuy]

I have skimmed through most of the posts in this thread, and there's a point I would like to raise.

I have once read in the bible that women are also to cover themselves. So it's part of the Christian religion too. So I don't really get the big fuss that is being made about women having to cover themselves... it's part of the Muslim and the Christian religion (but as far as I know, it's not being followed much by Christians) and that's it. Why the big deal?

Well this raises a point that i'm sure is valid with Islam. The bible is not a literal word of God for Catholics. I'm sure it's the same for Muslims and the Koran. People interpret what is said. This always annoys me when religion is discussed in class. I hate it when people think they're quoting the Bible and saying "Oh well in the Bible in says to stone people, surely that's immoral" or something stupid like that. I'm sure Muslims suffer the same sort of thing. Oh and on a side note, is it just me or do all the "smart" kids all support atheist views. Cause whenever we have a debate in class I'm always the only person supporting God's existence who has have a brain. I really think that the media has somehow turned religion into something "uncool".

[Mahuta ♥]

I must agree with the last part, lol.

True, there are thing that are misinterpreted, but that doesn't mean in this case that the sayings in the Quran have changed, and don't go all attacky on me here because it's something we say, and I am not forcing my opinion on anyone nor do I expect them to believe it. I am not going to start a whole discussion on why we believe the Quran has not been changed, but it is been proven by non-muslim scientist and language experts proving that there is noway this could have been a human being's word. Anyhow, like I said I do not expect anyone to believe this.

[sweetnsimple786]

Haha just to clarify, as far as I know, the general belief of Muslims is that the Quran is the literal word of God. Can someone doubt this and still be Muslim? In my opinion, yes.

I believe that it's literally the word of God, but I still believe that it has a historical context and a lot of symbolism and that different interpretations can be valid and that not everything can be taken literally.

And IrishGuy, I think it's easier to question beliefs as we start really thinking and analyzing. It doesn't really bother me about what people think. I just enjoy talking to them about what they believe because it exposes me to things that I might not have considered before. And there's a pretty good chance that someone who believes X right now might not later, so it doesn't seem important to think that I'm the only one who believes ____. Now that I think about it, most people in my IB are monotheists, but we still have different views on everything. And everyone shares the basic set of ethics, I believe.

[Sandwich]

I don't think the media have made religion 'uncool'. Firstly I don't like the minor but definitely extant inference that people who aren't religious are only so because it's cool and secondly, in my opinion, if religion is 'uncool' it says something more about its relevance to society than how the media portray it. Younger people aren't so religious, probably why it's not 'cool' (seeing as cool tends to mean appealing to the young). I don't think you can say that 'uncoolness' preceded the lack of relevance religion has in the lives and times of younger people. Fewer young people do think it's relevant, in my experience O: Relevancy must have decreased prior to 'uncoolness'.

You don't have to be 'smart' to be non-religious, or vice versa, but I think there must be some kind of correlation between people who question and people who are more intelligent. Even then you have people on both sides who fail to question, and people who do question and yet are still religious, so I'm not saying it's everybody. Just that if there is a correlation, I suspect that to be the reason.

[IrishGuy]

I don't think the media have made religion 'uncool'. Firstly I don't like the minor but definitely extant inference that people who aren't religious are only so because it's cool and secondly, in my opinion, if religion is 'uncool' it says something more about its relevance to society than how the media portray it. Younger people aren't so religious, probably why it's not 'cool' (seeing as cool tends to mean appealing to the young). I don't think you can say that 'uncoolness' preceded the lack of relevance religion has in the lives and times of younger people. Fewer young people do think it's relevant, in my experience O: Relevancy must have decreased prior to 'uncoolness'.

You don't have to be 'smart' to be non-religious, or vice versa, but I think there must be some kind of correlation between people who question and people who are more intelligent. Even then you have people on both sides who fail to question, and people who do question and yet are still religious, so I'm not saying it's everybody. Just that if there is a correlation, I suspect that to be the reason.

Yes I agree with you about the correlation between being intelligent and questioning but I do find that in today's world, where technology can answer a lot of questions, religion is seen as outdated and useless. Like if you watch the BBC ( or the ABC as it is over in Australia) almost every program about religion talks about it in the distant past, ie the with the Romans or in the dark ages etc... There seem to be very few programs that look at religion today and how it has changed. Also I don't think it helps the fact that in the news each day we hear about fanatical Muslims fighting a religious war against Western nations. I think that this creates a link between religion and suffering. I'm not saying that they should have pro religious programs (cause who watches those???) but I'm merely pointing out that I think the media has contributed to rendering religion "uncool". And when I say that I mean, in my old school I was the only openly religious person in my class and although people didn't make fun of it it was clear that they say it as a weakness of sorts. Almost that believing in something was childish hence "uncool". I'm sure many people think this but I fear that if a whole society develops this mentality that there will be dangerous repercussions.

[RBST]

Oh and on a side note, is it just me or do all the "smart" kids all support atheist views. Cause whenever we have a debate in class I'm always the only person supporting God's existence who has have a brain. I really think that the media has somehow turned religion into something "uncool".

Lol @ that part.

I think I have a brain, I do believe in the existence of God, though.

Personally, I see that for some reason, Atheism is a "fashion" these days. It might be because media has turned religion into something uncool as you mentioned above.

[Daedalus]

Oh and on a side note, is it just me or do all the "smart" kids all support atheist views. Cause whenever we have a debate in class I'm always the only person supporting God's existence who has have a brain. I really think that the media has somehow turned religion into something "uncool".

Lol @ that part.

I think I have a brain, I do believe in the existence of God, though.

Personally, I see that for some reason, Atheism is a "fashion" these days. It might be because media has turned religion into something uncool as you mentioned above.

I'm not sure if I agree with this idea. I would argue that religion has long been in man's hands and not God's, and what we are experiencing is a growing realization that regardless of what God really wants of us, it is very unlikely that man's perceptions of it are not accurate. I know that the holy texts are very open to interpretation, and I haven't actually read any of them so my understanding is probably not reliable, but from what I can see it seems that the holy texts condone many ways of looking at the world which were better suited to the world five hundred or a thousand or even more years ago. That is, I find that wholly independent of the atheist/theist argument there is the debate as to whether the church, for example, truly represents God's hand on earth. I would argue that it does not. Certain elements of the Pope's view on religion, like the idea of priests being exclusively men, seems to me outdated. I think that because of certain negative aspects of religions as they've been represented in man's hands, people who might have believed in a higher power were led to believe in nothing at all. Another one of the issues I would raise is that of multiple religions. If the most widespread religions all share a common, and correct, view, then they were born from the idea of a fundamental higher power, but much else has been the work of man. But if any one of them is 100% correct, then the others are not, and the same argument applies to different branches within the same faith. There does not to me seem to be any single branch of Christianity (or is it Catholicism?) that is substantially more 'correct' then the others, and therefore I've been led to accept them all as false, since they cannot all be true.

Maybe this same sort of argument is why it has become more and more accepted, at least within highly educated circles, not to be deeply religious. How can a Mormon defend his faith from a Scientologist? How can a Scientologist defend his faith from a Mormon? Just by setting them side by side with, say, an atheist and a man of Jewish faith you get a sort of 'uncool' factor which places its weight on the atheist, if you see what I mean. Some of the stories told by certain religions are, to me, quite fantastic. Some of them sometimes sound more like Science Fiction novels than anything... but again I'm completely unqualified for this type of argument.

There are just my ideas though. What do you guys think?

[RBST]

I agree with you, to some extent. On the other hand, I don't think that I'll ever be able to convince someone to believe in a specific religion. When it comes to religion and beliefs, it's difficult to discuss. It depends on the culture, environment and the different perceptions we have. (Sorry to mention ToK..)

Again I understand what you mean and I definitely respect your point of view

Edited May 31, 2010 by RBST