Genius vs. Hard Work

[ninety]

To me, I think that even if you were born gifted, without the hard work you're as good as someone who's not so bright. If you are a genius, great. You've been given a kick start at birth. But without the hard work, you'll stay at the point where you began. On the other hand, someone who's less bright might have to start from scratch at birth. But if he's always working hard, someday he'll surely overtake the genius. Slow and steady wins the race, after all!

While that's true if you're comparing someone who works harder but isn't as intelligent to someone who doesn't work as hard but is more intelligent, if you compare two people of differing intelligence who both work hard, the one with higher intelligence will probably be able to achieve more (or at least achieve the same things more easily) throughout life.

You have a point. If the genius, the person who was given a kick start, works as hard as the person without the kick start, the genius will be likely to achieve more. Maybe I should have worded what I said differently.

[Guest Ahmed Mazlom]

Being naturally gifted with knowledge is a blessing itself.

However.

You will get nowhere without hard work...

[zwingli]

If you've watched Limitless, you know to keep your hopes up and look to the black market

[An Almost Graduate]

"I do not know anyone who has gotten to the top without hard work. That is the recipe. It will not always get you to the top, but it will usually get you very near." - Margaret Thatcher.

I think it is obvious that hard work helps you significantly and that laziness hurts you significantly. However, there may be some room for natural ability. Has anyone ever considered where natural ability comes from?

I think that natural ability is attained through hard work. No one came out of the womb able to do...anything. However, over time, through experiences in our lives, we learned to behave in ways advantageous to us. Maybe the reason that some people don't have to try that hard in Math is because they played chess when they were younger. Maybe the reason they excel in group 3 courses is because they talked with their families over supper about the news. Maybe they excel in Theory of Knowledge because they spent a lot of their youth questioning their religious faith and eventually coming to the conclusion that they believed in their religion, only to be bombarded by atheistic classmates who never spent 5% as long considering the questions on the philosophy of religion as them and therefore having to perfect their ability to present philosophical arguments concisely to peers. I think a 'natural ability' is just as learned as anything else.

[haley.the.great]

It seems to me that in order to attain success, there needs to be some combination of both; however, I think the precise amount is different for each person, depending on the "dose of genius" he received.

As a kid, I had an interest in both art and music. I was always singing...not very well... ...but still practicing and "working hard" to perfect it. To this day, I just cannot sing well enough to lead a remotely successful singing career. But from day 1 there was a significant difference between my art and my peers' art. I could somehow capture scribbles of people more gracefully than the other 3yo kids in my class...but that wasn't a matter of practice. I was born with a natural gift for drawing that I've been able to develop more thoroughly through hard work, but it was still there in the beginning.

Some would argue art and music are more skill-based, but from the way I see it, there must be a foundational talent - comparable to "genius" - that is present in order to become more "skilled" than the average artist. No matter how much effort the average artist exerts, his art does not compare to the genius artist prodigy's.

But the lazy factor is introduced, because geniuses have the almost inevitable character of laziness in an effort to find the most efficient way to do everything. This is where schoolwork comes in. This is why the student who slaves over notes for 5 hours can achieve the same score as a "genius" who glances at the notes. Genius doesn't want to do the work that Hard Work has done all along. I believe there is a cap, depending on the "dose of genius" each student receives, in which they will be passed by the Hard Worker. It's like an intersection of two equations...f(genius) starts higher on the y-axis, but gradually increases at perhaps a 1/2 slope, not exerting much effort. f(hardwork) begins lower on the y-axis, perhaps at the origin, but increases at a faster rate at perhaps a 2 slope, exerting much more effort than f(genius). But when f(g) and f(h) intersect, f(g) comes out the one on bottom and f(h) is on top thanks to hard work. The point of intersection could be a variety of things...perhaps the genius becomes too lazy and the slope begins to decrease sooner than expected...perhaps the coursework is too difficult for the genius to grasp in the same manner he's used to, with minimal effort...perhaps the hard worker begins exerting even more effort and climbs faster...I don't know, there are several factors involved that can determine why a hard working student can pass a genius student and the most notable contribution is laziness because it contradicts hard work.

I think each person's "genius cap" is different, but I definitely believe there's a limit when genius doesn't matter so much anymore because hard work has intersected the field. That point of intersection could be at age 7 for one person and age 70 for another....but hard work catches up at some point. And the most genius are the ones who can combine the two efficiently. They always have an edge, so ultimately, I believe genius is the fundamental factor in success, but hard work is the deciding factor. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but generally speaking (typing) yep.

[Guest kenshi64]

In my opinion everyone was born equal but you upbringing from there on decide where you go, the common analogy I'd refer to is that of a child being clay and his upbringing shaping him and defining him. Because If your brought up having to read books every week(given to you by you parents) and discuss them at the dinner table, your skills at English will develop very well, quote obviously and this will help you a LOT, you can talk like a gentleman, write poems and express youself well, you'll be good at debate too blah blah!

So if you read all the science books you're habituated to absorbing facts and knowledge, if you didn't you're a slower learner(not just science books, but books or means that impart knowledge not just morals etc). Also your school years when and if you study independantly defineyour ability to work with yourself the better you do this the better you're at hard-work and those supposedly brilliant people, are brilliant because they've mastered this, they know how they like their knowledge served and keep on taking it in with a genuine interest.

Hard-workers are often people who aren't interested in studies or wake up at the 11th hour!!

[CkyBlue]

They are equally important. Genius is the beauty of intelligence. Being hardworking is something special that is generally in contrary of a human being. (Humans look for the easiest, fastest, and most efficient way of getting things done... [why do we procrastinate then?]) Anyway that's for another topic. My point is, these two things help each other so the learner can get as far as he can.

Without genius, the hard worker will not get far. As far as I'm concerned, I would pity a hard worker who does not know how to study, how to learn, or how to do anything right if he lacks the basic motor or thinking skills. He could be working on rote learning! O.o That will not get him anywhere, and utimately doom him if he does not turn around and figure out what they do is wrong.

Without have the hard-work quality, a genius also has their limits. They will never reach their full potential if all they do is embrace their genius. They will not have the incentive to learn new things, become self-driven, if all they do is depend on their natural smarts. Getting out of your comfort zones is one of the most effective ways to acquire true enlightenment.

[Arrowhead]

It's funny that I saw this discussion here when I was having the very same discussion with my mother a few days ago. My mother was an average student all her life, she would work and work and work and slog to go from a B to a B+ and whenever she slacked off she fell to a C. By Indian standards she was always between a 50% (with no hard work) and 85% (with blood and sweat and toil). But no matter what she did, she could never be one of those kids who got 90% and 95% in school. She always assumed that those kids were probably studying much, much more than her and this had been her unconscious way of thinking through majority of her life.

But when I went to school, she felt like she noted a difference when she compared me to my sister who is 3 years older to me. No matter where I was, whichever education system we were thrust into, I sort of moulded into it effortlessly whilst my sister struggled (like she often did in her youth). She and my sister would work hard and through the night to make sure my sister would pass year after year with more than average grades, but with me, I would sit down with my books a few days before exams, read everything two or three times and then come in the top 5 of my class without breaking a sweat. She was baffled because I used to achieve these high grades and I barely worked as compared to my sister who slogged her way through her schooling, but could never achieve the grades I did.

In the IB, I didn't really work hard like many of my classmates until the very end. I would sit down and write commentaries and assignments during lunch when they were due in the period after. I had a constant struggle with my roommate over this, he would finish his commentaries days before they were due, he would proof read them and edit them and really work on them (this is in Grade 11 when we were given more time for commentaries in the beginning). He would end up with an IB22 and I would get an IB24. He would be livid and I would laugh.

I'm not trying to insinuate I'm a genius, that's not true by a long shot, but I do acknowledge that I have certain skills when it comes to memorising facts (for History) and BS-ing my essays (for English) that my peers don't have to the same extent as me. Consequently, I never worked as hard as them, ever, but I always was one of the top students in class.

I do think that hard work is important, its significance is such that it cannot be replaced. But I also believe that someone who is a genius, however that word is defined in its true sense or someone who has a better skill set in certain areas (like me), does have it easier. While in the long term things tend to level out, if the 'Genius' ever decides to step up his/her game, well, the hard worker doesn't stand a chance.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Arrowhead

[d3athlig3r]

Exactly what Arrowhead said, except for me replace his proficiency in English and History, with mine of Math and Science.

A girl in my class studies till her eyes bleed to achieve what other students achieve with less than half her effort. True story.

[TurtleR]

It depends...in my opinion, a "genius" is something else.

A lot of people assume that a genius is simply someone that gets high grades without working hard. In my opinion, that is just way too common to consider "genius". I think its merely because some people are better suited to the education system than others, which is why they're able to get better marks. It's also the reason why, when presented with a problem in an unfamiliar way (such as an IA), the "genius" might have a hard time getting a good mark.

In the end, I think that hard work is definitely more important, but so is...intelligence. If you don't understand the stuff you're working so hard on, it doesn't matter in the end. If you work so hard to only end up not being able to focus on class, it's also a bit counter productive.

But hard work is definitely more important, because even if you have potential, that potential is useless if you dont use it.

[Daedalus]

In my experience, raw intelligence counts for a lot more than hard work. I have never seen a really brilliant student do badly in the IB - a lot of them didn't do much work in the years leading up to it, but when push came to shove, they did the little they needed to do to excel.

I'm certain anybody without any serious mental deficiencies could get a 45 in the IB, but not without pushing themselves inhumanely. The people who got 40+ in my grade were bright+. The combination of intelligence and work differed, but people of average abilities got 36-38 with a lot of hard work, and if they slacked off, things sometimes got surprising.

Working hard counts. But ultimately being smart means a lot more, at least in an academic context. In terms of success in life, that might not be the case at all - there are always stories of true geniuses wasting their lives away. And the converse is that reading widely, thinking critically - things you can't really measure on a numerical scale - count a lot as well in life achievement, and of course sheer luck, meaning it doesn't really matter what you're born with.

What you make of your genes is, to a large extent, up to you.

[khalid]

I personally believe hard work, because of you work hard then you can become a genius. And you know what they say" Hard work pays offf" not "Genius pays off"

[Yllat]

I believe that normal hard working studen can achive the level of genius.

But everyone knows how hard it is.

You said that your friends dont study and have greate grades. But acctually you have no idea are they studying all night and then after exams says : " It was really easy ! I am glad I havent study bla bla bla

A lot of people do this to make other jealous. Nothing comes to your head just like that.

[lullabyy]

It depends, I think. If someone is genious like really smart kid and will work hard... Well then it's fantastic. But let's face it - usually people who are genious don't care much about working hard. And people who are just average work hard, put a lot of effort in school stuff and eventually they'll be able to achieve amazing grades. But still, for certain subjects such as for example Math HL it has to be hard. I don't know from my experience because I'm not doing Math HL but still some of my friends do. And the attitude of the teacher is like: "ok... you're working very hard, I can see that. You're ambitious and systhematic but... Sorry for saying this, you will never be a Math genious."

It's the same thing with almost every subject... My sister simply can't study History. She can spend whole weekend cramming for a huge test but still get like 65-70%. While for some people it just come naturally. Me for example... I don't care at all about my Polish SL classes. But still, my teacher is kinda "amazed" by my work. It's shame to tell her that I didn't even look in my notes and still did well for example on oral commentary.

But seriously, at this point of education I don't think that anyone is able to get >40 points on his or her Diploma without any hard work. It just seems to be impossible.

[Yllat]

I believe that normal hard working studen can achive the level of genius.

But everyone knows how hard it is.

You said that your friends dont study and have greate grades. But acctually you have no idea are they studying all night and then after exams says : " It was really easy ! I am glad I havent study bla bla bla

A lot of people do this to make other jealous. Nothing comes to your head just like that.

[dessskris]

I believe that normal hard working studen can achive the level of genius.

are you sure? I don't believe in that. maybe yeah if you work hard you can get good grades, but not become a genius. now this depends on how we define the word "genius". I think that genius is a trait somebody is born with, so they're naturally intelligent. and I think genius people don't need to work that hard to achieve a good mark. now, working hard can make you achieve good mark, but not make you genius.

and, you may say that A LOT of people lie and say they don't study but can get good grades, but be careful not to generalise and say everyone lies. it's true, some people are just naturally good like that. for example, I don't study for my maths tests and can still get good grades. it's true! why? because everything is stuck in my head already. I understand things, I don't memorise. so once I learn something, if I understand, I can pass my tests without studying at all.

and I know a couple of friends of mine who are like that too.. and we're not lying.

[Bradley]

It seems good that I'm posting under Desy here.

A person who is genius but doesn't work hard will preform exceptionally within certain parameters, once taken outside of those parameters they will wither and die (not really, but I'm too tired to not be poetic )

A person who is hard working but isn't a genius will preform poorly in the first contact to a new idea or concept, but will gradually master it. Depending on the level of genius and hard work put in by the respective people, it is possible for genius to be matched by hard work.

A person who is both hard working and a genius will preform well in everything they apply themselves too.

For example:

Now in the IB class out our school, there's a diverse range of students, from people like me who study ( ), to people who are doing (and probably failing) maths studies. In the mock exams we have just had, I received the same mark as one of the more 'shady' students in English, a solid 5. I am being ridiculed for it, simply because he had tried his arse off in the process, while I was playing CoD.

Also, even though I'm strong in Maths and Economics (and to a lesser extent English), I have "peaked" in Physics.

In the mock exam for Physics I received 38%, simply because I have reached capacity of what I can effortlessly achieve in Physics at a high level, but in contrast I have been averaging 6-7 for Business Management HL and Maths SL (HL is not offered at my school) and 5-6 in History HL and English SL. I am also virtually failing my language class (Ab initio Spanish) simply because I do not give a damn, and the teacher is not any good. The person in our year who is as smart as me and actually tries has reached the Spanish B level for Grammar in less than a year, with no background in Spanish, as well as being top year 12 science student and achieving general excellence at our school (I achieved this as well, I didn't know they recognised trolling as a subject ). However, this guy studies about 8 hours a day, and I'm not even sure he's more of a genius than me.

As Hoppie Groenwald once said in Bryce Courtenay's "The Power of One" - "First with the head, then with the heart that's how you'll get ahead from the start".

[wanzulfikri]

Can we really judge the term 'genius' only on papers? What is exactly genius? Although it is true that genes or 'talent' plays a role on whether a person is better or not, I still am a firm believer that hard work is better.

One thing that many people don't know is that why do all the genius are coined genius? Is it because of innate talent or just their different way of thinking, studying or memorizing. Well, what I know is that MOST 'genius' that are famous are hard workers.

When you see a genius in action, think about what he does that is different than you. Then, you'll know that you can emulate the genius method and be a 'genius' yourself.

[citizenoftheuniverse]

You could compare this to looking good. Some people look naturally good and don´t have to put effort in, while others look good with effort and if your really ugly there is no hope for you. XP

[macrofire]

Hard work is always better. Most people neglect hard work because they find the results pointless. Let me tell you this then: Hard work is hard for a reason! For example: doing 400 sets of easy quadratics is not hard work. Try proving why the sum of the roots are related to the standard form of a quadratic equation. Hard work is supposed to make you overexert your mental capacities and not your muscle memory. The more the work challenges you, the more you will grow on that subject.

Oral presentations aren't big in my school. We're doing IB English presentation right now. People either make a script and put it onto PPT, or make a PPT and print the slides out and present. These people don't do the extra step of planning both the script and the PPT (or other medium) and making them correlate and match so that an overall effective presentation happens. When I confront these people, they don't even know what they're doing, and they think that staying up till 4 each night to finish and embellish the script is hard enough work.

The big problem right now is that people don`t know what real hard work is. Finding that extra step to grow further can be difficult, but try asking yourself these questions in sequence and see if you are really testing yourself:

1. Is what I'm doing difficult for me?

2. How is it challenging me?

3. Can I take it further?

4. How can I do that?

5. Will it make my work even more effective?

The basic idea is to identify your strengths and weaknesses. Destroy, or minimize, any weaknesses and boost your strengths. That can only be made by the dint of hard work.

Try it. If I were to pit a genius with an average student in a subject - math in this case - I'd get an obvious answer.

If I make that student do hard work for a while and then pit him/her against that same genius, chances are the average student supersedes the genius.

Remember, the genius soaks up anything others tell him/her. The hard worker explores and challenges things him/herself and learn even more than prescribed.

The best situation to be in is the hybrid: the genius who works hard becomes the ideal IB student.

That is our goal.

Questions?