Compare the IB to your country's 'own' educational system

[Lexus]

In Finland, after ninth grade, you are not legally obligated to go to school any more. However, an overwhealming majority do. If you want to continue your education, you choose between two different types of schools, ammattikoulu which is vocational schooling or lukio, which is basically highschool. You can also do both at the same time, so you get a vocational qualification and do only the required subjects in lukio, so then you get a kaksoistutkinto or a "double degree" loosely translated. Most people complete them in 3 years, but two and maximum four are also possible.

Ammattikoulu is much easier than IB in the sense that they do not have to study too much theory, they have a lot of practical work and gain job experiance in the field they choose. However, you can´t study all professions there, you can´t study to be a doctor in three years, but some jobs there include chef and electrician. In the old days, it was less prestigious to go to ammattikoulu, but nowadays it is more respected.

Lukio, in my oppinion, is as hard as you want it to be. The year is divided into five terms, and each term you can decide what you want to study. There are required courses in about 15 different subjects that you usually complete in the first year, but then the following years can study whatever is available that you want so that eventually you complete at least 75 courses. To pass lukio though, you need to take minimum four big exams in certain subjects and score well, kind of like the tests IB has at the end. Lukio can be harder, but it can also be easier depending on how hard the subjects you take are. People who take loads of courses have every day from 8 to 4, but someone might decide one term that they only have a few courses with school from 8 to 12, though they have to take more courses later to compensate. IB schools in Finland are considered international lukios.

So in a sense, IB is harder, but since I have not gone through the finnish system I don´t really know.

Good general explanation, but I must disagree on the hardness of the lukio system. During the pre-DP year we get to do the regular lukio courses so I do have a little personal experience from doing the regular courses. I did 8 courses in one term to get a little slack in the last ones and that was not nearly as hard as my IB2 year has been.

Only comparing the number of hours spent in school is not sufficient when you're considering the IB. For IB you have to remember that there is this ongoing bombardment of IA requirements in pretty much all the subjects, we do have much harder examinations (shorter time, more questions) and we need to do the ToK and the EE. The regular system people simply do not have to do these (except some essays for language courses). And also when you say that you can "make" the system harder, we must remember that there are some crazy people doing IB as well. I have a friend taking 7 subjects: HL math, HL chemistry, HL physics, HL psychology, HL economics, SL Chinese A1 and SL English A2. Compared to that, I don't know how to make the regular program harder (maybe all sciences and math courses + minimum requirements in two years?).

In the end we need to compare all aspects of the program and remember that it is better to try to compare the average requirements rather than what can be done in the programs because there will always be some people going over the top. I have maths and sciences as HL so I compare the sciences and maths. The comparison might be different with other subjects.

Ps. I got the top grade from the Finnish long math matriculation exams after IB1.

[-_-]

Wow, mixed reviews eh? I come from Vietnam, having studied there for 8 years in a row and now I'm in Sweden (started from 9th grade) doing IB. I have to say in my country, probably all subjects like Physics, Chemistry, Bio are way harder than here, EXCEPT the lab part. I think lab is not something prioritized I think though they are trying to because we are still poor. Math definitely harder, that's common with most "hardcore" asian countries like China, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, etc. However, I think other subjects except literature are pretty much a joke. History, geography, everything, students don't care because teachers don't know how to teach properly, definitely if our students take these subjects for IB HL they will have to go through Hell. I adapted quite quickly + I did 9th abroad and had pre-Ib so everything is fine for me. Anyway, the workload is twice as much in my country I think, the students have mandatory school 6 days a week and extra class is normal, some might have a schedule 8.am -> 10.pm ( with breaks of course ), pretty crazy...

[Crnjanski]

I am from Belgrade, Serbia.

In Serbia we only have three IB World Schools.

Serbia, as a country is generally poor and not many kids get the opportunity to study IB, as it is offered only in private schools. As for the comparison - yes, IB is a lot harder than Serbian National High School Diploma. Even though National Diploma contains 13-15 subjects depending on year, (and they all must be taken, there is no choice of subjects) the iB is still harder, because of in-depth study and other things such as IAs, exams (which are more in-depth than Serbians) and EE. Furthermore, Serbian high schools are not at all academically risen and students can easily 'walk through' the high school with little or basically no studying and still obtain grades 4 or 5 (grading is 1-5).

Serbs in general are a bit primitive when it comes to some international matters (I count IB in there), so they know basically nothing about IB, and as a product of that, the students taking IBDP in Serbia are considered to be an higher-class students. I will never understand that...

For the curious ones, I am posting the subjects taught in Serbian National High School Diploma:

Year 1 - Serbian, English, French, Latin, Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Geography, History, Music, PE, Art, Psychology + yearly behavior grade

Year 2 - all the same

Year 3 - Latin changes with Logic, music and art are replaced with Civil Right and Phylosophy

Year 4 - same as Y3

[Ray]

I'm from Alberta, Canada.

I am starting IB this September so I am not entirely sure how the regular curriculum and IB curriculum compare. According to the brief talks I've had with IB teachers and the IB coordinator, the curriculums are fairly similar but IB goes more in depth for most subjects. IB is definitely a lot harder than taking regular courses, at least at my school.

In Alberta, the difference between IB and the Regular courses vary depending on the subject. Biology HL is very similar to Bio 20/30, depending on what options your teacher chooses. If your teacher teaches the IB options that happen to match the regular program, the curriculum is 90% the same. Math SL seems to be mostly similar to Math 20/30/31, just the addition of two extraneous units.

English is quite a bit different, both because of the addition of WL works (which regular classes will never, ever study) and the different style of work that is assessed. However, IB History is vastly superior to Social 20/30, mostly because the Social curriculum in Alberta is the absolute worse out of any course taught in the province, except maybe CALM. IB French is also much better than regular French because it assesses speaking and listening in addition to writing and reading, while 90% of the regular curriculum is composed of the latter half.

I suppose IB is more difficult in that the expectations are higher, but shouldn't that be a given? And the most stressed students are the ones that procrastinated (which, I admit, is basically all of us.)

Yeah, Math SL is pretty much the same with the Alberta curriculum. Bio and Physics HL is similar but Chemistry is kind of both ways. Some parts IB go in more detail(organic) and sometimes Alberta goes in more detail(equilibrium+acid base). History is kind of the same but alberta focus a little more on the ideologies.

[dubyawhy]

I really want the opportunity to do the European Baccalaureate....it seems so much better and comprehensive than IB! Alas, it is too late now...

To grow up fluent in 3-4 languages? That makes a true world citizen, I think...

[Kasper Jepsen]

One thing I like about the IB is that it is immune to the politicians' meddling. The normal schools are dropping in test scores which means that the ministry of education are changing things all the time.

We also get to skip the annoying "AT", which is one week every now and then where they do a project based on 2-3 subjects. Sounds good on paper but I've never seen it be very productive.

I also like that there's a bit more focus on 'serious' learning, i.e. natural sciences and mathematics. For some reason political science is an extremely popular subject for the 'normal' students but at the level its taught it's useless.

[Ice Cream is really yummy]

Canadian Universities recognize the IB programme. Here in BC, it is fairly popular at UBC and SFU. But I don't know of MANY IB schools... Many of the schools here have AP classes... And well, summer school too.

Our Math is really lacking. The IB math SL is equivalent to Math 11 and 12 (principles) over here, and we started using the grade 12 bookets mid of IB1. We covered Math 11/12 in like, 4 months time or something like that. Some lessons are like, 20 minutes long and then we got exercises. I do know that over here though, in Grades 11 and 12 of Principles, they learn more indepth stuff in trigonometry whereas we are just skimming the program very lightly. My teacher always says that there is a lot to cover in IB math (even just the SL), and compared to the HL, I think that only a handful of IB students would be able to do it and get a 6.

For english A2 HL, we don't really read as much. In our normal english program, we would need to read more books and write a lot more.

French A1 HL, we are doing a lot of work and out teacher is grading us pretty harshly. Like, our percentage grades that we get at the end of a term, I keep getting like a C+... And in the normal french program (francophone program) she grades so much easier and everyone, like EVERYONE, is doing a great job. It's kinda depressing for us IBers.

Our Chemistry HL is VERY similar to our program here. We learnt the whole Grade 11 chem syllabus, like maybe 4 months worth of it, in 1 month or so. We're already peeking into the grade 12's chem book before the end of IB1. But last year, our teacher was pretty behind with his agenda and they did things we did 2 months into the program, 5 months into their program. So they were like, 3 months behind or so... But then again, they didn't have as many classes as us

History SL: The other grade 11 class has already covered the Second World War, and we're starting it next year, in IB2 (Our teacher wants to elaborate more on it, so she doesn't to start it now). The grade 11 class have a minister's exam to do this year too.

Music: We don't usually do theory or the history of music. You are lucky if you learn your instrument properly and learn to read, or you play other instruments (and learnt them properly too). And if you play piano, then that's a HUGE bonus.

[Guest Red XII]

The IB Diploma is vastly more difficult than normal US high schools. Most students only take a handful of AP classes, if any, and most AP classes are easier than their corresponding IB classes. Even students with a full load of AP classes don't have the extra stuff for the Diploma like TOK, EE, and CAS, and AP classes don't have anything nearly as difficult as IAs - they just have the one exam. Plus, lots of students take AP classes but not the AP exams.

Basically, the IB diploma is about as rigorous as it gets in the US.

[dubyawhy]

The IB Diploma is vastly more difficult than normal US high schools. Most students only take a handful of AP classes, if any, and most AP classes are easier than their corresponding IB classes. Even students with a full load of AP classes don't have the extra stuff for the Diploma like TOK, EE, and CAS, and AP classes don't have anything nearly as difficult as IAs - they just have the one exam. Plus, lots of students take AP classes but not the AP exams.

Basically, the IB diploma is about as rigorous as it gets in the US.

Disagree.

While the most difficult Diploma would be 4 HLs and 2 SLs(that is the cap I believe), I personally know several students who have taken 15+ APs. Also, APs allow you to start in individual subjects earlier - many people take AP Calc as early as Freshman year.

So if a student chooses to take about 4 APs a year, with honours classes for the rest, I think that would be a similar workload as an IB student.

But AP languages are all bull. AP Chinese is what we IB HL students learned in Pre-IB, and there is no AP alternative to IB A1/A2 language courses. And AP grading is alot easier(getting an AP 5 vs getting an IB 7)

Apart from that, I have to say AP has the edge.

[Chris Kuno]

In my province, the public education system in general is nowhere close to what the IB is in difficulty and academic standards.

[jess1ca]

IB is more difficult here "overall" for most subjects, ESPECIALLY HL.

But sometimes there's something on our curriculum that IB doesn't include in theirs, so we have to learn them both. For example, SL math doesn't include planes for vectors, actually IB SL vectors is a lot easier , but it's in the provincial curriculum so we must learn it.

For SL sciences we also need to cover content that IB doesn't cover, the thing that makes IB harder is not the content but all the labs and stuff like that. For labs the rubric says either complete, partially complete, or incomplete. So if you're missing 2 things from each category, you can easily get a zero. Once my hypothesis wasn't very clear, I worded my purpose as a question, I crossed out two words not neatly enough, my teacher didn't understand my data table. 1/6. Yay.

HL sciences for me though, is just a nightmare. (HL Chem )

I'm glad we learn both.... the more you learn, the better, right?

I don't think harder is necessarily better, sometimes spending more time on stuff helps you understand concepts better. I'm not a teacher or education expert but at least for math I think they should make the elementary school curriculum more difficult. We're going to have to learn the hard stuff eventually, so why not make the transition easier for us? Elementary school math, now that was a joke.

Is AP really easier though? I thought it would be the equivalent of IB HL subjects, since you get uni credits for them? Maybe I'll do the AP math exam too then, haha.

Thanks to mark conversions, I don't think it's that much harder to do well in IB. Even if you get a 5, it gets translated to an 80 to 89. Not bad?

Edited May 9, 2011 by SmilingAtLife:)

[Ice Cream is really yummy]

IB is more difficult here "overall" for most subjects, ESPECIALLY HL.

But sometimes there's something on our curriculum that IB doesn't include in theirs, so we have to learn them both. For example, SL math doesn't include planes for vectors, actually IB SL vectors is a lot easier , but it's in the provincial curriculum so we must learn it.

For SL sciences we also need to cover content that IB doesn't cover, the thing that makes IB harder is not the content but all the labs and stuff like that. For labs the rubric says either complete, partially complete, or incomplete. So if you're missing 2 things from each category, you can easily get a zero. Once my hypothesis wasn't very clear, I worded my purpose as a question, I crossed out two words not neatly enough, my teacher didn't understand my data table. 1/6. Yay.

HL sciences for me though, is just a nightmare. (HL Chem )

I'm glad we learn both.... the more you learn, the better, right?

I don't think harder is necessarily better, sometimes spending more time on stuff helps you understand concepts better. I'm not a teacher or education expert but at least for math I think they should make the elementary school curriculum more difficult. We're going to have to learn the hard stuff eventually, so why not make the transition easier for us? Elementary school math, now that was a joke.

Is AP really easier though? I thought it would be the equivalent of IB HL subjects, since you get uni credits for them? Maybe I'll do the AP math exam too then, haha.

Thanks to mark conversions, I don't think it's that much harder to do well in IB. Even if you get a 5, it gets translated to an 80 to 89. Not bad?

Yes, I agree. In my province, our math level is very low, and our grade never went through those pre-IB classes. We were not ready at all for any of this, especially math. But, having said that, my teacher said that it states that the math SL programme can be accomplished by someone who has only had the basics of math (don't ask me how...).

I am fortunate to have been able to click with chemistry HL very easily. Within our first 4 months of the IB programme, we were already discussing "first year university" concepts, and such. Of course, for many in my class, they still to this day do not understand what it is that we are babbling about it class, but I think it all depends on your mind set. This is your education, take control of it. Try to pay more attention to your teacher event though you may not like him/her, and try your best to like your class as well.

IB is all about endurance. You do not have to be "smart" to do well in IB. All you need to do is work, and work hard. Do everything that you can do ensure you are getting the maximum during these 2 years. I know that for myself, I always ask questions in chemistry because I really like the class, and I try to ask questions in history as well to understand what it is that I am learning... but in math, I cannot come up with any questions on the spot. Therefore, I got myself a tutor and I am able to feel more comfortable with them. This is an example of me taking charge of my own education.

[Irma18]

I live in FL, US and have visited colleges throughout the country.

It is consdered the hardest system even in comparison to private schools.

The obvious opponents are private school and AP credit. However, the problem with those is that you can have a difficult curriculum, but you never reach the IB potential. I know of 2 private school in my area that are well esteemed. CEO's, Miami businessmen, Athletes, Singers and surgeons. Those are the type of parents the kids have. I have several friends from there and I am well aware of the curriculum and the private school experience. My friend as a junior year (usually emhpasis for AP exams of private schools) took no AP classes and had bowling and religion (the school itself is not religiously affiliated) as electives. the grading system is A for 85 and up. Thats another thing. Private schools have their own lenient curriculum for preparatory education and change the rules of the game.

AP curriculum, regardless of where you go, is usually never reached at that level. That is, you may take 1-5 AP classes during your high school year and then stop. Ib kids who are forced to take AP along with IB take all the exams.

I also have a perspective from another point of view.

Serbia/Bosnia - the curriculum of IB is equal to what is called over there "Gimnazija". That the term used for schools where you have to meet aan entrance exam, show academic resume in order to get in. Its a gateway to all other top careers. For instance, if you are to be a doctor you would go to Gimnazija, and then continue on your education. Its an academic pool of studious students.

Often times, those that have the budget and resources label themselves IB. That is they take the proper initiative to just go ahead and smack the label on the already hard curriculum. And since IB is offered in English, it is considered a prestigious thing to go there. The kids are well adept to education, and some of them have been directed towards the program like this one since early years by taking English courses all their life in order to be accepted into such college preparatory curriculum. Many of them venture out of the country afterward, studying in places like Switzerland, Germany and Russia if they cannot attend US for money-based reasons.

yes I agreee, IB definitely does no compete with the other educational systems that exist in the US in general. it is wayyy more rigorous and while the AP curriculum touches on a lot of the same general topics that the IB does, the IB goes wayyyyy further in depth than AP. Plus, the rigor also comes from all the extras we are required to do in IB that AP kids don't have like testing in every single subject, writing a TOK essay, an EE and doing CAS. When I started as a freshman at my school, there were 120 very qualified and very bright students. They were all the tops of their middle schools, the "valedictorians" if you will. However, the rigor of the IB program was too much to handle and so many dropped out. We are down to 70 students, now at the end of my junior year. Soo yes, the IB program's curriculum is tougher by a long shot from the other educational programs offered in the US. And to add on about what you said about Bosnia, I am from there and I can that that is totally true. Gimnazija is single-handedly one of the hardest schools in maybe the world. It's right up there with IB and possibly even surpasses IB by a lot. The educational system in Bosnia in general is very hard. The students actively learn Latin, English, French and Spanish throughout their school careers. I have a friend who goes to "Prva Gimnazija"--the first Gimnzaija which is the the most prestigious and he is fluent in English, Bosnian, Spanish, French and German, not mention he knows Latin, its insane. I honestly don't know how those student do it, but I do know that "Druga Gimnazija"--the second Gimnazija has the IB program in addition tot he already rigorous curriculum. So, those students also have to do IB exams, CAS, TOK essay, and EE all in English.

[miso soup]

a little bit. because at my school, when you're in ib, you're considered "smart" when really, anyone can get it. but in order to get in, there has to be that whole interview process, see if you can handle it, ect.

[Ice Cream is really yummy]

a little bit. because at my school, when you're in ib, you're considered "smart" when really, anyone can get it. but in order to get in, there has to be that whole interview process, see if you can handle it, ect.

We needed to complete forms and such. We needed, I believe, two reference letters from two of YOUR teachers (out of the ones you had in grade 10) to complete the reference letter for you. Then we had to give it in to our IB coordinator.

[jess1ca]

Yes, I agree. In my province, our math level is very low, and our grade never went through those pre-IB classes. We were not ready at all for any of this, especially math. But, having said that, my teacher said that it states that the math SL programme can be accomplished by someone who has only had the basics of math (don't ask me how...).

I am fortunate to have been able to click with chemistry HL very easily. Within our first 4 months of the IB programme, we were already discussing "first year university" concepts, and such. Of course, for many in my class, they still to this day do not understand what it is that we are babbling about it class, but I think it all depends on your mind set. This is your education, take control of it. Try to pay more attention to your teacher event though you may not like him/her, and try your best to like your class as well.

IB is all about endurance. You do not have to be "smart" to do well in IB. All you need to do is work, and work hard. Do everything that you can do ensure you are getting the maximum during these 2 years. I know that for myself, I always ask questions in chemistry because I really like the class, and I try to ask questions in history as well to understand what it is that I am learning... but in math, I cannot come up with any questions on the spot. Therefore, I got myself a tutor and I am able to feel more comfortable with them. This is an example of me taking charge of my own education.

I have a family friend who is a research chemist and tutors me, but even her advice does not always make IB/ my teacher happy. Which is why I'm really unsure of myself in chemistry... I feel like I'm just not good at it. I don't see myself getting a 7! There's still hope for chemistry though, I've got lots more of it next year!

Math SL made me like math more. In pre IB I kind of slacked off-- I never liked math anyway, and pre IB math wasn't one of those subjects I felt you could really study for... so I didn't. At first getting good grades was easy, and then suddenly it wasn't so easy and I just started feeling even more depressed about math. Then in actual IB I worked really hard and my grades didn't improve. But all that exam prep (and some TOK, haha) made me really appreciate math more.

Anyway... I agree with you. You don't need to be smart to be in IB. Some of the really smart kids I know, resort to cheating/ cramming/ etc because they don't bother studying.

Edited May 23, 2011 by SmilingAtLife:)

[Mort]

Way easier then our nation's system. In the last two years of high school in Iran you get ready for an exam called Konkoor which is atleast two times harder than the IB exam. Konkoor is a four and a half hour exam made up of only multiple choice questions. Which for each question you have 45 seconds to answer and for math questions you get one and a half minute. Every question you get wrong, you lose three points, so say if you get every question wrong, you will get minus 33 points. Or say that you kill yourself to get four out of five questions right, you will only get 1 mark. So pretty much you have to skip questions your not sure of or you'll get a real bad mark. This exam makes up 85% of the mark you will be using to get into university. Also competition for top 1000 is very hard.

Worse of all you get a lot of questions from Arabic and the Quran which is like super hard.

[Lero]

Ya akhi that is a terrible system, you get penalized for having a fair go?

[Peanut Butter Jelly]

in china you take the gaokao if you fail it you dont get into university

[jess1ca]

a little bit. because at my school, when you're in ib, you're considered "smart" when really, anyone can get it. but in order to get in, there has to be that whole interview process, see if you can handle it, ect.

For my school, to get into pre IB you have to take the SSAT and they also look at your elementary school grades and report cards. I think they also ask for teacher signatures/ recommendations.

It's really not that difficult, I don't think the standards are that high, because-- I made it in

To continue in IB, you need a B average...

Mort that sounds like an unfair exam!!

Edited May 28, 2011 by SmilingAtLife:)