IB vs. SATs for US Universities?

[NGAngie]

Ok, so I'm planning to apply to several top-tier universities in the US this year and I'm at a loss at to what to expect from the admission process. I know the importance admission officers give to SATs in the US, but I figured that being from Peru and as many US universities are not very familiar with the education system here, they'd really focus on my SATs...but then I have my IB's - which one will have more weight when they're deciding if I get admitted?

I plan to major in anything environmental science-related, maybe with a focus on international policy

I'm planning to apply to:

Princeton

Columbia

Dartmouth

NYU

Johns Hopkins

Stanford

Course (Predicted)

Chemistry HL (6)

Geography HL (7)

English A2 HL (7)

Biology SL (7)

Maths SL (6)

Spanish A1 (7)

EE: Geography - UV Radiation- (A)

I'm having a second go at the SAT I this May (got a 2090 last time, have had classes for 2 months to prepare for this one)

I'll be taking the following SAT II's:

Chemistry

English Lit.

Biology M

E/C's: President of MUN (participated in a Latin American SC Model and my team is applying for Harvard MUN this year), 4 years varsity basketball, tons of environmental awareness and action-oriented social service as well as some work with special needs and underprivileged children, summer internship at a university's marine reserves research facility (stayed at the reserve for 1 month)

I'm worried my (good, but not stellar) SAT result will deter from my other strengths, since I'm not really used to the whole SAT test-taking method, but any insight is appreaciated

[masochist]

IB grades are always more important than SAT ones so don't worry. It'd be good to up your SAT scores a bit so do work at that but don't worry, I believe that writing a great admissions essay is much more important.

[Guest Mr Awesome]

I'm not 100% sure on how the American system works, but across the pond in England the IB is less established than A-levels (the qualification taken by the majority of 16+ pupils over here). Universities don't seem to fully grasp it yet, with offers for very similar courses ranging from 30-40. Very few ask for more than 40, although it's not uncommon for the top end uni's (Oxford and Cambridge) to ask for 43+.

In short, IB probably IS better, it's different and shows you've got depth, but in the UK it seems to be less popular than other, better established qualifications.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Mr Awesome

[HeyItsHales]

I know this is probably a little late, but I know a good amount about

the higher end US universities. Universities such as Princeton and

Columbia normally won't take credit for IB Courses at all, and if

they do, it's miniscule. High scores on the SAT's are required for

admissions into most, if not all of the universities you listed.

So, in short, good scores on you SAT's hold a much more valuable

position for upper end universities than IB tests do. It's a shock

to some, but it is how the US system seems to work.

[dbunting4]

The IB scores wont help you. IB as a system is utterly worthless in college situations. Unless you're rich, you wont ever be able to go where you want without going deep into debt, so in my experience, IB isn't in any way, shape or form useful for college. Unless you're wealthy and/or well connected, it wont help you.

[sweetnsimple786]

Well the thing is that they'll look at the scores from your school, and they're familiar with IB, so predicted grades do matter in a decision, but SATs are going to help more because they're supposedly an equalizer. If I recall correctly, SATs were made to give non-whites an equal chance to get into college in the US. I don't know to what degree it was successful, but whatever. The point is that they can compare your SAT scores with other international applicants' SAT scores. They can't compare predicted scores as well because of subjectivity. When it comes to the actual IB scores, those will matter [since you're a November candidate, I guess you're applying in 2011?]. Based on what I've read, I think your IB grades matter a little bit more, but if you have SAT scores that are not comparable with the other top applicants, then life is not good. 2090 will get you in the door, and your IB scores seem great! You seem to also be involved with your ECs. I say try to do the best on the SATs. They might have less of a role than you think. Here's what I believe: good SAT scores, grades, leadership/involvement in extracurriculars, and GPA [if you have that] get their attention. But what it comes down to is the essay, teacher recommendations, the interview, and passion for something/the something that helps you stand out, in a good way.

About money, some of those schools will be able to fund you more than others. They're all fairly expensive, so do look into that aspect, as dbunting4 has brought up. Some of them commit to helping internationals all the way, if the financial need is shown. I just remember that Stanford says it tries, but it can't promise. I don't know about the other schools. I would assume Princeton promises as much aid to internationals as it does to domestic. Ahh good luck!

[Forester]

since you are an international from peru, there is a quota on how many students a top-tier university will admit from your country. as long as your sat score is comparable to those who are also applying from your country, you seem to be set, because your ib grades are stellar. however if someone else from peru also have similar ib grades, but outperforms you on the sat, then it's a bit of a worry, unless you can find some other things to compensate for it.

[CocoPop]

The IB doesn't seem to mean much to US universities. I was predicted 45, but was rejected from the majority of universities I applied to (Harvard, Stanford, MIT etc.). I still had decent SAT scores (2240 and 800s in subject tests), but obviously they're looking for much more than that. They give more credits to AP students, which seems bizarre as the AP exams are considerably easier than IB. Furthermore, the SAT subject tests are of a level much below that of IB...

Anyway, that's life. Hopefully the IB will become a bit more recognized in the upcoming years.

[sweetnsimple786]

Aw I'm very sorry. Like Victor said, it is much more difficult for international students.

I do disagree about AP and IB weight, though. Taking IB and taking AP have the same appeal if you've got a student who's taking 7 [the normal 6 + TOK] IB classes and another student who's taking 7 AP classes. I think IB's harder because you're taking so many, but when you consider an AP student who's taking just as many rigorous courses, it's hard to say one is harder than the other.

As for predicted scores, actual scores are easier to rely on than predicted. Relate that to AP, and you get that our grades in a class are like the predicted IB scores, and our SAT scores, GPA, and/or rank are attempts to translate them into an actual score by giving a better method to compare to other applicants than just what a teacher [that the university is not familiar with] says.

Your scores are much better than mine, and you probably have shown yourself dedicated to a few extracurriculars, with leadership and civic values. It's just so much harder as an international student. I was looking at statistics for acceptance into MIT, and I thought I was going to be an international student. I think my chances went from 13ish% as a US applicant to 3ish% as a international. I was so angry, so I empathize partly. I'm sorry.

[Center Field]

First off...

They do not give more credit to AP students-that is a huge rumour that has spread from us not getting our test scores till the end of senior year. They give more to IB. IB is harder, for one, and will always have a higher quality of teaching.

Second off...

The SAT is massively important, but with many of the top schools (no matter how high everything else is) either you have to have a 2300+ or something else that distinguishes you.

Third...

IB kids are at two disadvantages, 1. The subject tests are designed for the AP class (they are written by the same people)and 2. We do not get our test scores till the end of the year after application. Also of note, IB kids usually do worse than AP kids on average on the SAT because the stuff on that test stems from our primary years (5-8th grade) whereas many of the AP students are learning that stuff in class the time they take the test-its fresh in their minds

Fourth!

IB kids (obviously) come from all different nationalities...as was aforementioned every top school in the US has a quota of how many international students can be accepted. Thats a big setback

Edited July 26, 2010 by Center Field

[your idiot self]

"USC believes that students who undertake an IB curriculum are well prepared for the rigors of university academic life. IB courses are factored into our admission evaluation process because we recognize the extreme rigor of such a curriculum." - The IB admission policy from the University of Southern California. Quote found here.

[Anansi]

Basically university application in the states is a multi-tiered process. Any school that counts would recognize the difficulty associated with the IB. That being said, a predicted grade of 45 is just one part. Great SAT and SAT II scores, teacher recommendations, extra curricular activities and of course, the admissions essay are just as important.

The top schools aren't just admitting the best students, but building a coherent class. They need bright students who are also well rounded and show passion. From what I see, you seem to fit many of the criteria, the ability to write a strong essay is paramount, so don't only focus on your SAT's but also start drafting the essay (personally I think the common app is a god send).